My own personal depression

[Rambler]

I look at it this way: I still own the stocks whose value has dropped, so I haven't really lost anything. Some of them have dropped for good reason. Others have dropped because the fundamentals have changed. Yet others have simply moved south with the market. I still own every share I have ever bought. I believe that the value (of most) will come back at some point...may take a year or so, but it'll be back. Most of them pay dividends, and only one (WaMu) has been cut (to the best of my knowledge). I will stick with them (unless the fundamentals change) and re-invest dividends and interest, and add more by DCAing into issues I already hold as well as by buying into other issues. If the fundamentals of a particular company have changed so much they spook me, I may sell out and buy into something that is high(er) quality, but at a bargain price.

R

 

[cute fuzzy bunny]

I count the house value from what is on Zillow from the all time high and my investment on the calendar year.

Well, thats a losing proposition. Count them from your first investment. Whats your gain from your first rolled forward real estate investment? Whats your core gain on investments from your first dollar?

$20 says both are extremely positive.

Backing up into the offered advice, I've rarely found pills to be the answer to the 'problem'. Find out what the problem is and solve it.

 

[Gardnr]

two - why be so concerned about the market value of your house? Stop and think a minute - were you planning on downsizing, selling it and renting? Probably not. So what difference does it make? If you were to sell, and buy the same size (or bigger house), you are better off in a down RE market. The house you go to buy will be as cheap (or relatively cheaper) than what you sell. Commissions will be less. This is a good thing. Only bad if you are downsizing or getting out of RE ccompletely.

Precisely. I'm glad that I'm not in Zillow territory and can't look up the "value" of my house constantly. I really have no idea what the current value is because I'm not in a neighborhood and doing comps would take lots of effort and wouldn't be very precise anyway. Being in semi-rural Missouri I'm sure it hasn't gone up much during the last 8 years and therefore hasn't gone down much lately either. But I don't really care either.

 

[youbet]

This is the worst financial year in my life.

Me too!

27 months into RE and now having to come to grips with the fact that I retired into a recession. Yuuuch! That's bad! But, WTF. like goes on.......

1. Despite being mid-teens% down in my net worth the past few months (ref peak), a re-do of Firecalc says I'm still OK (with a slightly tightened budget). That's good.

2. DW and I are feeling pretty good. That's good.

3. We're having fun and finding a bit of camaraderie with retired friends as we all economize by inviting each other to our homes instead of meeting at restaurants, etc. That's good.

4. The kids and grandkids are doing OK so far. No layoffs, etc. That's good.

OW, you mentioned several pluses going on for yourself too. That's good!

Try not to let difficulties in reaching a tough goal (RE) blind you from appreciating and enjoying all the things you have and have accomplished.

As Mom used to tell me" "Youbet, you're gona be dead a long time. Try to have a little fun now........"

 

[lazygood4nothinbum]

This is the worst financial year in my life...
I told my boyfriend it is a good thing my house isn't taller so jumping out the window would only injure me...That is what is so depressing I don't time the market so stay fully invested, I made 50K in 2007 but lost 85K this year but made 15K in the last two days...I made money in the market and my house value went up so my net worth was soaring it was really fun. ...I count the house value from what is on Zillow

zillow has my inherited house down $45k in the last 30 days while it values my next door neighbor (house directly next to inherited house) as up $78k in the same 30-day period. there's your $100k difference. so much for swillow.

more to the point. does every check you deposit make you happy and every check you write make you sad? whether working or investing, you're not making money, you're letting money put the make on you.

when i was young and innocent, you know, right before my mother died two years ago today, money didn't affect me. only now it does. pay too much attention to it and consider yourself seduced & corrupted. this very forum, with all due respect, not withstanding. i never liked finance and i do not like this money. not that it doesn't help to have some knowledge of it. but just like you need to know not to put your hand into a boiling pot, doesn't mean you should keep reminding yourself by continually scolding your fingers. learn it once and move on.

i'm guilty of letting money so affect me but i recognize that this is not a good way to live. hadn't i an inherited house to sell i'd be furious at that 700 billion dollar bailout. but motivated by money, i could care less what it costs to stabilize the housing market if it gets me off this hook. had i taken any action to create this mess, i'd feel even more shame for having let money determine not just my emotional state but what moves me. since when in my life have i ever let an outside force move me in a way that i would not move on my own. this is disgusting yet everyone is so proud of it. they flaunt it so. money money money money.

if it was real, how is it that it can disappear when you don't even spend it or appear when you don't even work for it. you might as well let spirits move you. these phantoms, these ghosts, this illusion. this is not real. find your happiness elsewhere.

 

[riskadverse]

You haven't lost it money until you sell your investments or your house.

Sounds like the way the investment banks total up their balance sheets. Failure to recognize or disclose your losses may lead to some bad decisions followed by even worse decisions.

 

[simple girl]

My 401K started in 2003 and after maxing it every year I have put in 119K counting company money of about 8K and this week it was worth less than the total put in. But it went up about 9K the last two days so it is worth more than I paid for it. But still most people didn't put 119K into a 401K in 6 years so I am ahead of most people.

How are you putting that much into a 401K in 6 years with the IRS limits being what they are? Catch-up contributions? It sounds to me like you are trying to build your nest egg over a very short period of time. That doesn't allow the normal amount of time for compounding. Plus, the market startedgoing up at about the time you started investing heavily. It sounds like you have only seen growth and now a bear market comes along and it's a shocker (I know, I feel your pain, for sure!). It's been hard for us, too, because although we have been invested since about 1998, we didn't start watching our portfolio closely until 2002/2003. It's been greating seeing it go up, up, up, up. When that's all you are used to seeing, well, it's tough to see it go down, down, down. However, listening to the wisdom of this board and reading about past bear markets is helping us stay the course, realizing we are still relatively new to investing and "this too shall pass".

I think you are grieving the loss of your goal to retire by a certain date. Perhaps you need to acknowledge that date was an aggressive goal, and achievable only with all stars aligned properly. My advice would be to allow yourself to be sad about that for a little while (as I think that is a normal response), but then accept the reality for what it is and focus on all that you have to be thankful for. The attitude of gratitude always puts me back on track. Hang in there! (and perhaps review this thread, too, for similar viewpoints: http://www.early-retirement.org/forums/f30/er-is-not-the-goal-38627.html)

 

[W2R]

How are you putting that much into a 401K in 6 years with the IRS limits being what they are? Catch-up contributions?

(That is about what goes into a 401K if someone over 50 is contributing the maximum. The money going into my account has been roughly the same. This includes match, the rest of what I will contribute but haven't yet in 2008, and the absolute maximum contributions including over-50 catch-up. This year my contributions will be $15,500+$5000 = $20500, for example. Anyway, her figures sound quite accurate to me.).

 

[shoe]

Can I make a small suggestion? Change your posting name! It's kind of depressing!

 

[Walt34]

There are only two times when the market value of your house (or anything else for that matter) has any meaning. The day you buy it and the day you sell it.

I still sometimes have a hard time convincing DW about that. And we have to live someplace. This one is as good as any and better than most.

 

[haha]

There are only two times when the market value of your house (or anything else for that matter) has any meaning. The day you buy it and the day you sell it.

And the day you pledge it as collateral.

Ha

 

[dex]

Sounds like the way the investment banks total up their balance sheets. Failure to recognize or disclose your losses may lead to some bad decisions followed by even worse decisions.

Accounting rules determine how & when a balance sheet item is valued.

 

[rickier55]

I count the house value from what is on Zillow from the all time high and my investment on the calendar year. I have spreadsheets I update 5 days a week but start the totals new Jan 1. But I can look at where it was the last few years too. March of 2007 I hit investments totaling 400K but now after putting in more money they are only worth 360K. I am done for this year so starting the first of Jan I can quit looking at this mess. Then I will put in another 26.5K of my money in the first half of next year and the company will put in about 8K so someday I will get back to where I was in March 2007 except I got in debt about 26K on my home repairs.
My 401K started in 2003 and after maxing it every year I have put in 119K counting company money of about 8K and this week it was worth less than the total put in. But it went up about 9K the last two days so it is worth more than I paid for it. But still most people didn't put 119K into a 401K in 6 years so I am ahead of most people.

I don't think you mentioned how long until your retirement. If you're all in equities, I assume you were not planning to retire in the near future.

So what you might want to consider is that the Stock Market is having a SALE! And as someone mentioned, you might want to track it a little less often. (I actually update mine weekly - but only save the values at the end of the month - and some folks say thats even too often).

In any case - hang in there - and if you can't shake the blues - go see a doc.

Rick

 

[unclemick]

Hmmm - it helps to be an old phart.

1966-1982 was chewy - AND I was young and working.

Now it's been kind of laughable for the last ten yrs or so.

At last after a few Bear markets under the belt - I can smile and say:

Pssst - Wellesley. Or the the Norwegian widow is smiling cause she doesn't have to go out in the rain to get her dividend checks from the mailbox - she now has auto deposit.

Heh heh heh - now being a Saint's fan for thirty plus years - some might find depressing. But hope springs eternal. Also the neighborhood sports a few Chief's flags on the lawns. Balanced index - soldier on! .

 

[Canadian Grunt]

I have been in my house since 1992 so it is worth more than I paid for it and more than my mortgage. I have allocated my investments all in equities mostly mutual funds pretty high in international. That is what is so depressing I don't time the market so stay fully invested, I made 50K in 2007 but lost 85K this year but made 15K in the last two days.
2007 I made money in the market and my house value went up so my net worth was soaring it was really fun. I was hoping the balloon would stay inflated and my net worth would get so high I could retire in style maybe wealthy. Another couple of good years and I could sell my house and pay cash for a new one and have more money to invest. Now I just have to keep working and home it changes back.

When this rough spell passes I would re-evaluate your asset allocation and increase your bond exposure as your current asset allocation is probably too high for your risk tolerance.

 

[LOL!]

I see that oldwoman appeared to start investing in 2003, so she missed the 45% dropped in the stock market between 2000 and 2003. She also missed the 1987 one-day drop of 25% and the various down years between then and when she started. Since 2003 the stock market pretty much went only up until November 2007.

The stock market drop since November 2007 has been relatively mild as far as drops go and not unexpected. The stock market goes down about one year out of every four. There is really no need to be depressed about it. This is where you rebalance so that your equity percentage is back where you want it. You know, buy low and sell high later.

 

[ziggy29]

I see that oldwoman appeared to start investing in 2003, so she missed the 45% dropped in the stock market between 2000 and 2003. She also missed the 1987 one-day drop of 25% and the various down years between then and when she started. Since 2003 the stock market pretty much went only up until November 2007.

The stock market drop since November 2007 has been relatively mild as far as drops go and not unexpected. The stock market goes down about one year out of every four. There is really no need to be depressed about it. This is where you rebalance so that your equity percentage is back where you want it. You know, buy low and sell high later.

Yes, I agree. It's not pleasant to watch your nest egg evaporate on paper due to market swoons and inflation. But yes, this is someone who appears to still be up overall.

You don't get "market returns" in a straight line. There's a reason why investing has a higher expected ROI than a CD, and that reason is risk and volatility that some people just can't stomach.

 

[2B]

Maybe I've been beaten up so many times I've become too complacent. I started investing in the 1960's while in high school. I managed to build a small fortune (~$6,000) by 1973 to watch almost 70% disappear in what seemed like overnight. Rebuilt through savings but had all of my money in a house that became almost worthless because of a major employer shutdown in a smallish city during the early phase of the oil bust. Managed to stay barely solvent and went back into equities in July 1982 (great timing) but pissed away who knows what in technical analysis, semi-day trading and commodities. Fortunately, my income exceeded my foolishness and eventually my company thrift plans and later 401k overcame my self-destructive behavior.

I've lost about 4 or 5 years of retirement living expenses. I am not happy but I won't live my life around it. I am very glad I moved to 40% cash/fixed last summer from my previous 90%.

This too shall pass.

 

[old woman]

I started investing three days before my divorce was final in 1984. But at 2K a year I only looked once a year and only had one stock or one mutual fund at a time. I got my current 401K in 2003 so put in 14K then 15 then 16 then 18 then 20.5 two or three times so put in about 112K and the company put in 8K or so. But that is only the current 401K. I have a ROTH that I converted old 401Ks and old IRAs and taxable investments so a total of about 360K total.
I want to sell my house and was hoping to pay cash for the replacement and have money leftover to invest but my value is down faster than the cheaper house I want so stuck here.
I am 60 and wanted to move to a one level house out off the city before moving with all these stairs was a problem. The stairs don't bother me much yet but I don't like carrying laundry up two flights. I can usually get my boyfriend to do it for me but I want to settle in to retirement while I can garden and build things.
I don't think I am clinically depressed I just feel whiny. I still have a great job, nice boyfriend and wonderful family and my cat loves me.

 

[W2R]

Stairs can be a problem. But if you can't move away, I have some suggestions.

First, there are mechanical lifts you can get for stairs and you could have one installed later when you are older. Frank's father had one put in their house, and it was very reliable. They aren't cheap, but neither is moving.

Or, depending on the layout of the home maybe you could move your bedroom downstairs. Maybe you can have the washer/dryer moved to the first floor as well. Or maybe not; I guess some houses lend to that better than others.

I am glad you are not clinically depressed! Life is too much fun to be miserable for very long.

 

[DangerMouse]

It's ok to be whiny from time to time.

However, I wouldn't be worrying too much about being stuck with your current real estate as there is still a chance that sometime in your future you will be able to move to the single level you desire. It may not be this year or the next, but it may still happen.

In the meantime I would be coming up with a plan B that provides a good alternative from your original dream.

BTW if you did sell and move to the single level, how essential to your retirement were the surplus funds you were hoping to achieve from the sale of your current house?

 

[CRABBY JERRY]

Try to be happy where you are in life

I have been in my house since 1992 so it is worth more than I paid for it and more than my mortgage. I have allocated my investments all in equities mostly mutual funds pretty high in international. That is what is so depressing I don't time the market so stay fully invested, I made 50K in 2007 but lost 85K this year but made 15K in the last two days.
2007 I made money in the market and my house value went up so my net worth was soaring it was really fun. I was hoping the balloon would stay inflated and my net worth would get so high I could retire in style maybe wealthy. Another couple of good years and I could sell my house and pay cash for a new one and have more money to invest. Now I just have to keep working and home it changes back.

I don't want to tell you not to be depressed, however why not look in the mirror and appreciate what you do have and that perhaps your healthy and you do like your job. You could be sick like a previous post I just read, or have lossed your job and live on the streets. I have to tell myself the same thing sometimes,but somewhere,someone is always doing a lot worse and not complaining about their situation. Probably not what you want to hear,but hope it makes you look at it from a different view.

 

[old woman]

BTW if you did sell and move to the single level, how essential to your retirement were the surplus funds you were hoping to achieve from the sale of your current house?

I am marginal so the extra would be nice. I don't have any pensions so only SS and the rent my boyfriend gives me and my life savings of about 360K and about 200K of home equity now. I can buy a single level house for about 200K so a move would be break even.
If I have a paid off home with a well and septic system where I can grow some of my own food I might be able to live on SS and the rental income so I guess I don't need my life savings at all. But I want medical insurance besides Medicare and a new vehicle two more times in my life and car insurance. The difference between 4% of 300K and 4% of 500K will give me some cushion for comfort and furniture, new appliances and little things I want. Putting off retirement will increase SS by about 8% a year so going from 1200 to 1500 if I wait a bit and 1800 if I wait for 70 but then I might not want to live on acreage.
I don't want my current house, the basement leaks and it is really old. I have a guest room on the main floor but too small to be my bedroom. I could get a housekeeper to do the laundry so I never need to go to the basement. I have a 6 car garage I could move the laundry to that, it has a furnace so it wouldn't freeze and our temps aren't that cold or I could use laundromats if I couldn't make it to the basement. I might never get too unhealthy for stairs but planned to sell when I was old when I bought this house.

 

[haha]

Do you feel that boyfriend thing is stable enough that you might consider going in 1:1 with him on the new home? From what you have said he is relatively well off.

ha

 

[W2R]

It sounds like you will be OK for the time being without moving, though I guess the mortgage payment is still a stumbling block. Maybe you could refinance.

You suggested some great work-arounds for dealing with the stairs. And like you said, you may never have problems with the stairs, or it may be years from now. I would expect that long before that time, the housing market will have recovered.

Like you, I am expecting to move to a less expensive house after ER. I will probably net around $50K, though it depends on the kind of house I end up getting (I am not sure what I want, yet). I could use the $50K for expenses such as remodeling and redecorating, moving, and/or a new car.