My Sister's Series I Savings Bonds

[stephenson]

Hi All,

I have a couple of other threads on my sister's terminal illness circumstances. This one relates to savings bonds that we found in the corner of a drawer.

They are series I from 2006-2007 ... value is around $90/each, I think.

They are in her name.

My read is that these cannot be easily transferred? Should she cash them now?

Thanks!

 

[pb4uski]

Insufficient info to advise whether to redeem them or not, but at a minimum have her set up a treasury direct account and get the bonds in their electronically. There's a procedure you go through to tell them what bonds you'll be sending them including the bond numbers and the amounts, and then you mail them into them.

 

[Montecfo]

what is the total value?

 

[stephenson]

My estimate, given dates, around $10K.

Looks like Form 4000 is correct Treasury form to request reissue in same name or different name ... reissue is only to a treasurydirect account.

 

[joesxm3]

Is this form 4000 a way to get the bonds into treasury direct without creating an inventory and mailing them?

 

[stephenson]

joesxm3,

No, it looks like the method to do exactly that - create the inventory in writing, then mail inventory list and the savings bonds to them - for them to recreate them electronically.

 

[stephenson]

My rep at Fidelity recommends, based on them being in my sister's personal name (and, with an "or" and our deceased mother's name), versus her trust, that cashing them and paying the tax now is probably more reasonable than trying to get the treasury to process them in a timely manner.

I wish there was a reliable and timely way to keep them and transfer to our two kids, but it sounds pretty hard.

I've checked locally - NFCU (we are long time) website notes they will gladly process Savings Bonds, so I may start there. If they require her signature, vs mine with DPOA, then my sister can sign them, and I can fill out the address block on each one. If I can sign with DPOA, I will execute all of them at that time.

A question is whether NFCU, Treasury, or I keep track of the taxes due - I will maintain a complete log of course, but don't really know how this is done, yet.

 

[PaunchyPirate]

My rep at Fidelity recommends, based on them being in my sister's personal name (and, with an "or" and our deceased mother's name), versus her trust, that cashing them and paying the tax now is probably more reasonable than trying to get the treasury to process them in a timely manner.

I wish there was a reliable and timely way to keep them and transfer to our two kids, but it sounds pretty hard.

I've checked locally - NFCU (we are long time) website notes they will gladly process Savings Bonds, so I may start there. If they require her signature, vs mine with DPOA, then my sister can sign them, and I can fill out the address block on each one. If I can sign with DPOA, I will execute all of them at that time.

A question is whether NFCU, Treasury, or I keep track of the taxes due - I will maintain a complete log of course, but don't really know how this is done, yet.

Given your sister's situation, I would also recommend you go this route. If you sent them off to the Treasury to process, you lose control of the timeline.

 

[pb4uski]

joesxm3,

No, it looks like the method to do exactly that - create the inventory in writing, then mail inventory list and the savings bonds to them - for them to recreate them electronically.

As I recall the process that I've done a few different times is that I log into Treasury Direct and follow the prompts and create a list of the paper bonds that I will be sending to them and submit it.

Then what I did was tp print that list and include it with the bonds that I mailed to them. It worked like a charm each time that I did it.

 

[pb4uski]

... A question is whether NFCU, Treasury, or I keep track of the taxes due - I will maintain a complete log of course, but don't really know how this is done, yet.

If you cash them in I think she will get a 1099-INT from Treasury in early 2024 that whoever prepares her 2023 tax return will include as income.

IOW, NFCU is acting as an agent between her and Treasury.

 

[stephenson]

pb4uski,

Do you recall the timeline for submission to Treasury and their processing?

I'm trying to determine whether it makes any sense to even try that since I don't know if they can be registered to an estate vs personal name - and, then whether that matters, except that taxes would be higher with estate - and, the max time I could leave them in the trust would be until I close out the trust, then I would be liable for those taxes at an even higher tax rate?

 

[mystang52]

Put me in the camp of cashing in the Bonds now. It will make things a lot simpler.

 

[stephenson]

This isn't a close out on the thread, but some more info.

It is possible to follow the instructions and process with Treasury to send these to them - after opening a TreasuryDirect account - however, not all circumstances are covered online - and, after waiting three hours on hold - I looked for other, more timely alternatives.

First, assuming my 50 years of membership and solid accounts with Navy Federal Credit Union would be worth something, I called and worked with their very nice and knowledgable national representatives. However, since my sister does not have an account with them, they would work with only $1,000 per day - and, she would need to sign each one in their presence, probably inside their building. After several discussions, their internal policy being noted at least 20 times, they were utterly unyielding - even when I finally noted that I would be vindictive in the only way I could - terminating any future relationship with Navy Federal. Again, the answer was no.

So, I went to my sister's credit union, Pen Air. They worked out quickly that she could sign them all at home (my wife and I will fill in the address info on each one), then present herself for identification in the car ONE TIME, and they would process the bonds and deposit the amount to her account. This would still take them on the order of an hour of time. They set up an appointment for tomorrow at 1000. Once my sister gets the OK, she can deposit the funds to Fidelity via app.

Sigh - not at all what I was expecting from NFCU - literally a lifetime of goodwill tossed due to "our internal policy."

 

[Texas Proud]

This isn't a close out on the thread, but some more info.

It is possible to follow the instructions and process with Treasury to send these to them - after opening a TreasuryDirect account - however, not all circumstances are covered online - and, after waiting three hours on hold - I looked for other, more timely alternatives.

First, assuming my 50 years of membership and solid accounts with Navy Federal Credit Union would be worth something, I called and worked with their very nice and knowledgable national representatives. However, since my sister does not have an account with them, they would work with only $1,000 per day - and, she would need to sign each one in their presence, probably inside their building. After several discussions, their internal policy being noted at least 20 times, they were utterly unyielding - even when I finally noted that I would be vindictive in the only way I could - terminating any future relationship with Navy Federal. Again, the answer was no.

So, I went to my sister's credit union, Pen Air. They worked out quickly that she could sign them all at home (my wife and I will fill in the address info on each one), then present herself for identification in the car ONE TIME, and they would process the bonds and deposit the amount to her account. This would still take them on the order of an hour of time. They set up an appointment for tomorrow at 1000. Once my sister gets the OK, she can deposit the funds to Fidelity via app.

Sigh - not at all what I was expecting from NFCU - literally a lifetime of goodwill tossed due to "our internal policy."

I do not understand why you are so mad at NFCU.... your sister is not a member so why should they take on ANY liability on these bonds?


Sure, if you want to leave them because they were following their stated policy then go for it... but I do not think they were being unreasonable...

 

[stephenson]

Because I am a member - a member of long standing - the very sort they advertise as working so hard to do so much for.

Help me with the "risk?" Do they have risk, or simply labor in this?

So, you have never chosen or not chosen companies because of their "policies?" Especially when those policies had no basis in risk or cost to them, but were just ways they did something because it was, er, a "policy?"

 

[pb4uski]

pb4uski,

Do you recall the timeline for submission to Treasury and their processing?

I'm trying to determine whether it makes any sense to even try that since I don't know if they can be registered to an estate vs personal name - and, then whether that matters, except that taxes would be higher with estate - and, the max time I could leave them in the trust would be until I close out the trust, then I would be liable for those taxes at an even higher tax rate?

I don't but it wasn't very long.

 

[stephenson]

All done. Very gracious and kind folks at Pen Air Federal CU.

 

[Texas Proud]

Because I am a member - a member of long standing - the very sort they advertise as working so hard to do so much for.

Help me with the "risk?" Do they have risk, or simply labor in this?

So, you have never chosen or not chosen companies because of their "policies?" Especially when those policies had no basis in risk or cost to them, but were just ways they did something because it was, er, a "policy?"

I do not know the risks, but there are a lot more risks in banking than you might think...


I would say one risk is cashing the bond that is NOT in your name... if it comes back it might be on them... sure, you have been there for a long time but not your sister... and it IS in your sister's name...


I do not see why going to your sister's bank/credit union was so hard...


As for policies... yes, I have had problems with some policies that companies use... and if I think they are so out of line I go somewhere else... I just do not think that your CU was that far out of line... you have a different opinion....

 

[pb4uski]

All done. Very gracious and kind folks at Pen Air Federal CU.

Outstanding.

 

[badatmath]

I think it was odd you would think NFCU would help a non member. But I am glad you got it taken care of.

 

[stephenson]

I think it was odd you would think NFCU would help a non member. But I am glad you got it taken care of.

Well, NFCU refused to waive an unimportant internal policy for ME, a half century member.

As a quick follow-up, the Pen Air team noted they would absolutely have resolved this situation if they were in the same position as NFCU by redeeming all the bonds to help an member of any other credit union. Completely different attitude.

Pen Air's team assisted, yesterday, concurring with attorney, in closing my sister's personal registered account to deposit the funds in her Fidelity trust registered account. Throughout, they were thoughtful and ready to assist.

 

[pacergal]

Glad you got it all taken care of to your satisfaction.

Our local CU has a mutual agreement with several others in the area, you can go into anyone for most services. It's nice