Join Early Retirement Today
Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
Old 06-29-2019, 09:13 PM   #61
Thinks s/he gets paid by the post
timo2's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2011
Location: Bernalillo, NM
Posts: 2,717
Quote:
Originally Posted by joeea View Post
In case anyone wants to read the actual report, instead of the clickbait summary, you can find it here:

https://unitedincome.com/documents/p...PlainSight.pdf
thanks
__________________

"We live the lives we lead because of the thoughts we think" ...Michael O’Neill
"We can cannot compel others to do our will" ....Norman Goldman
"There never is shortage of the gullible to accept the illogical"...Anonymous
timo2 is offline   Reply With Quote
Join the #1 Early Retirement and Financial Independence Forum Today - It's Totally Free!

Are you planning to be financially independent as early as possible so you can live life on your own terms? Discuss successful investing strategies, asset allocation models, tax strategies and other related topics in our online forum community. Our members range from young folks just starting their journey to financial independence, military retirees and even multimillionaires. No matter where you fit in you'll find that Early-Retirement.org is a great community to join. Best of all it's totally FREE!

You are currently viewing our boards as a guest so you have limited access to our community. Please take the time to register and you will gain a lot of great new features including; the ability to participate in discussions, network with our members, see fewer ads, upload photographs, create a retirement blog, send private messages and so much, much more!

Old 06-29-2019, 10:19 PM   #62
Moderator
 
Join Date: Jul 2017
Posts: 5,659
Don't need this as an excuse to start means testing for SS. I also don't need the government assigning me my own, personalized DOD (yuck).

Sure, rename as minimum and maximum benefit.

Oh, and if you are really serious about "optimization" of benefits, provide a free, anonymous tool which would allow people to plug in their info for the alleged optimization - and then let the people claiming make up their own minds. The tool could also be available for them at the SS office, and they could be walked through it if they so desired.

As for the statement towards the end of the report that financial advisors have a motivation to encourage the early taking of benefits - that I believe to be true.
__________________
Use it up, wear it out, make it do or do without.
MarieIG is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-30-2019, 05:18 AM   #63
gone traveling
 
Join Date: Mar 2015
Posts: 3,508
Quote:
Originally Posted by MarieIG View Post
I also don't need the government assigning me my own, personalized DOD (yuck).
You don't really believe the government is doing that, do you?

Quote:
provide a free, anonymous tool which would allow people to plug in their info for the alleged optimization
https://opensocialsecurity.com/

Quote:
and then let the people claiming make up their own minds.
You have always been able to make up your own mind.
joeea is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-30-2019, 05:28 AM   #64
Thinks s/he gets paid by the post
 
Join Date: Jul 2015
Location: Beaverton
Posts: 1,382
As I have mentioned before, I am flexible when considering when to take SS. I will be 64 in a couple months and will use these points to decide:

True out of pocket saving to the budget when I go on Medicare

Market Performance

Potential inheritance from MIL

I have no plans to take SS before FRA. I certainly will consider pulling the trigger if the market drop >25%. I will analyze WR at lower portfolio level with my medical savings and then will decide if to go to 70.
__________________
Jump in, the water's warm.
Bir48die is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-30-2019, 05:41 AM   #65
gone traveling
 
Join Date: Mar 2015
Posts: 3,508
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bir48die View Post
As I have mentioned before, I am flexible when considering when to take SS. I will be 64 in a couple months and will use these points to decide:

True out of pocket saving to the budget when I go on Medicare
How will that impact your claiming decision?
joeea is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-30-2019, 06:05 AM   #66
Moderator
 
Join Date: Jul 2017
Posts: 5,659
Quote:
Originally Posted by joeea View Post
You don't really believe the government is doing that, do you?

According to the report - which in part called for "policy changes" one of the factors they considered when calculating social security optimization was a personalized DOD which they calculated using personal health information and included such as factors such as smoking, BMI, etc. Currently, it is my impression that the government calculates statistical likelihoods for the general population, not an individual at a time.



https://opensocialsecurity.com/


You have always been able to make up your own mind.
I didn't say otherwise. My point was, while I'm fine with persons claiming having all information to allow them to make the best decisions for themselves, I want the ability to decide kept with the persons claiming.
__________________
Use it up, wear it out, make it do or do without.
MarieIG is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-30-2019, 06:11 AM   #67
gone traveling
 
Join Date: Mar 2015
Posts: 3,508
Quote:
Originally Posted by MarieIG View Post
Yeh, I didn't say otherwise. My point was, while I'm fine with persons claiming having all information to allow them to make the best decisions for themselves, I want the ability to decide kept with the persons claiming.
It's difficult. In general, I'm for allowing people to make their own mistakes and live with the consequences.

But not everyone has the background needed to make an informed decision. There are for-profit entities that are happy to influence people to make poor decisions. And poor decisions often turn into shared, rather than individual, responsibility.

For example, I worry that my brother in law's poor claiming decision will turn into his family's responsibility.

There's nothing magical about allowing people to claim reduced social security benefits at 62. If everyone were required to wait at least until FRA, I don't think I would be bothered.
joeea is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-30-2019, 06:29 AM   #68
Administrator
MichaelB's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: Chicagoland
Posts: 40,584
A question about the report. It compares two scenarios, actual income vs simulated, the difference based on the age participants began drawing SS.

There is an 8 year difference between min and max ages. When they conclude someone would have earned higher total income by beginning SS at age 70 compared with age 62, what other income do these people have to support themselves during those 8 years?
MichaelB is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 06-30-2019, 06:41 AM   #69
Moderator
 
Join Date: Jul 2017
Posts: 5,659
Quote:
Originally Posted by joeea View Post
It's difficult. In general, I'm for allowing people to make their own mistakes and live with the consequences.

But not everyone has the background needed to make an informed decision. There are for-profit entities that are happy to influence people to make poor decisions. And poor decisions often turn into shared, rather than individual, responsibility.

For example, I worry that my brother in law's poor claiming decision will turn into his family's responsibility.

There's nothing magical about allowing people to claim reduced social security benefits at 62. If everyone were required to wait at least until FRA, I don't think I would be bothered.
Just looking at the statistics thus far, I don't think that is going to be very popular. But I agree there is nothing (at all) magical about claiming a reduced benefit at 62. If I were single, my choice would be to put it off to 70 as a safety net for old age, more than optimization. If I didn't collect, oh well, I really wouldn't mind terribly; but if I did the income would be there when I might need it more, would in all likelihood be unable to earn, and less able to make financial decisions.

I would also postpone till 70 if I were the primary breadwinner of a couple (and sometimes I cringe when I read posts when high earner in a couple claims at 62 - pushing the income to the front end and ignoring the reduced benefits to the surviving spouse should they pass first).

Most entities which manage money/ funds favor the scenario which will get them the most money to manage as soon as possible.

Sorry about your BIL.
__________________
Use it up, wear it out, make it do or do without.
MarieIG is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-30-2019, 06:56 AM   #70
Recycles dryer sheets
 
Join Date: Apr 2019
Posts: 74
While there are many good opinions here, every couple or individual can only decide what will work best in their particular situation.
Gulfbeach is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-30-2019, 07:40 AM   #71
Thinks s/he gets paid by the post
njhowie's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2012
Posts: 3,931
Quote:
Originally Posted by CardsFan View Post
Yes. I read the whole document, and saw the comment you quoted. That does not change, that at the end, they kind of advocated for legislation that would make it more difficult for those that do not have a "need" (need decided by who?) to take before FRA.

Sorry, I still see Big Brother.
Completely agree. When I read the article a few days ago and got to that last statement I was shaking my head.

For me, it's just another reason to take the money on the earliest date.
njhowie is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-30-2019, 08:30 AM   #72
Give me a museum and I'll fill it. (Picasso)
Give me a forum ...
Teacher Terry's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2014
Posts: 7,001
Some people take it at 62 because they need it. I was going to wait until FRA of 66 because I was working part time but when I lost my job I took it at 65 because there wasn’t much difference with waiting a year.
Teacher Terry is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 06-30-2019, 09:10 AM   #73
Thinks s/he gets paid by the post
 
Join Date: Jan 2018
Location: Elyria, OH
Posts: 1,937
Quote:
Originally Posted by MarieIG View Post
I would also postpone till 70 if I were the primary breadwinner of a couple (and sometimes I cringe when I read posts when high earner in a couple claims at 62 - pushing the income to the front end and ignoring the reduced benefits to the surviving spouse should they pass first).
A couple of examples:

1. FIL retired in 1994 at 61 and started SS at 62. Main reasons - SMIL had recently been diagnosed with cancer for the 2nd time and both were convinced she was not going to beat it this time and wanted to maximize time spent together. FIL had been teaching high school vocational electronics the same way for decades (vacuum tubes) and it had been decided that was no longer acceptable. He was told he'd have to learn how to teach via computer technology, which he was not willing to do. Adding up the numbers, he found that between SS and a pension, he was working for only 10% of his pay. FF to today, SMIL beat cancer for a 3rd time last year, but due to other long-standing health problems, was near death recently and may not be with us much longer. Thankfully, no financial issues due to FIL claiming at 62.

2. Neighbor had been working full time for a well known big box retailer. When he turned 62, his employer suggested he apply for SS and go to part time. Running the numbers, he'd make more, so he did. Seemed like a win-win. FF to a couple of years ago when he died at 70. Widow (2nd wife) was 60 or 61. No kids together. No relationship with his kids from 1st marriage. Left with a mortgage she could barely afford. Thought there was life insurance through his employer. There hadn't been. SS mistakenly took back his final check, though that was corrected months later when she applied for survivor benefits, way earlier than optimal, but necessary to survive, as one can't live on air alone. In the meantime, neighbors stepped up to pay her utilities for awhile. She wanted to move in with a recently divorced nephew and was rebuffed. She's managing somehow, still in the same house. What seemed like a win-win turned into a lose-lose for her.
gwraigty is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-30-2019, 09:27 AM   #74
Give me a museum and I'll fill it. (Picasso)
Give me a forum ...
audreyh1's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2006
Location: Rio Grande Valley
Posts: 38,007
Too many workers are unemployable by their 60s and just hanging on until they make it to 62.
__________________
Retired since summer 1999.
audreyh1 is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 06-30-2019, 09:36 AM   #75
Give me a museum and I'll fill it. (Picasso)
Give me a forum ...
Teacher Terry's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2014
Posts: 7,001
G, scenario 2 is a tough one because if he kept working full time so she would have had a bigger SS considering how young he died he never would have retired which is not optimal either. It seems like selling the house and renting a tiny apartment might be best for her. No clue why she thought a nephew would want to live with her.
Teacher Terry is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 06-30-2019, 09:39 AM   #76
Thinks s/he gets paid by the post
 
Join Date: Nov 2016
Location: Washington State
Posts: 2,350
The problem with waiting to take SS is that you still have to pay your bills while you wait. That means you have to work longer, or you need a nest egg large enough to hold you over until you can claim SS.

We got a fairly late start building our savings, so we don't have a large nest egg to hold us over to 67 or 70. I've run the numbers and waiting to take SS would draw our savings down to an uncomfortably low level. So our plan is to take SS at 62.

Yes, we would get more from SS by waiting. We could also increase our savings by waiting longer to retire. At some point you have to decide between enjoying the time you have left and maximizing your money. For us, the time is more important than the money.
mountainsoft is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 06-30-2019, 09:50 AM   #77
Thinks s/he gets paid by the post
 
Join Date: Apr 2005
Location: Midwest
Posts: 2,962
Quote:
Originally Posted by mountainsoft View Post
The problem with waiting to take SS is that you still have to pay your bills while you wait. That means you have to work longer, or you need a nest egg large enough to hold you over until you can claim SS.

We got a fairly late start building our savings, so we don't have a large nest egg to hold us over to 67 or 70. I've run the numbers and waiting to take SS would draw our savings down to an uncomfortably low level. So our plan is to take SS at 62.

Yes, we would get more from SS by waiting. We could also increase our savings by waiting longer to retire. At some point you have to decide between enjoying the time you have left and maximizing your money. For us, the time is more important than the money.
This! By waiting you're just reshuffling the money for the most part. The difference, in the end, is hardly a difference at all
razztazz is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 06-30-2019, 10:00 AM   #78
Give me a museum and I'll fill it. (Picasso)
Give me a forum ...
 
Join Date: May 2008
Posts: 7,422
Quote:
Originally Posted by MichaelB View Post
A question about the report. It compares two scenarios, actual income vs simulated, the difference based on the age participants began drawing SS.

There is an 8 year difference between min and max ages. When they conclude someone would have earned higher total income by beginning SS at age 70 compared with age 62, what other income do these people have to support themselves during those 8 years?
Trying to understand if this firm is trying to help clients with planning for retirement or managing their finances after they've retired.

Are they advising their own paying clients to keep working until they're 70 to maximize their retirement income?

Do they for instance advise clients that they're likely to spend less as they age?
explanade is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 06-30-2019, 10:03 AM   #79
Thinks s/he gets paid by the post
 
Join Date: Jan 2018
Location: Elyria, OH
Posts: 1,937
Quote:
Originally Posted by Teacher Terry View Post
G, scenario 2 is a tough one because if he kept working full time so she would have had a bigger SS considering how young he died he never would have retired which is not optimal either. It seems like selling the house and renting a tiny apartment might be best for her. No clue why she thought a nephew would want to live with her.
Agree. She did consider trying to lower her housing expenses, but has decided to stay put. No clue as to how she's making it work.

As for us, no clue as to what our decision will be when the time comes. No pension in store for us. But we've lived our lives as though SS wouldn't be there. Too early to tell, but I still keep reading along with the SS discussions. More legislative changes without much notice (like the elimination of file and suspend) could change the best laid plans of many.
gwraigty is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-30-2019, 10:04 AM   #80
Give me a museum and I'll fill it. (Picasso)
Give me a forum ...
 
Join Date: May 2008
Posts: 7,422
Quote:
Originally Posted by Teacher Terry View Post
Some people take it at 62 because they need it. I was going to wait until FRA of 66 because I was working part time but when I lost my job I took it at 65 because there wasn’t much difference with waiting a year.
I likely won't need to take it at 62 but it would let me spend more or invest it.

Currently not adding to my assets.
explanade is online now   Reply With Quote
Reply


Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
 
Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Agressive SS Claiming Strategies Under Review? eytonxav FIRE and Money 19 07-01-2015 03:05 PM
News articles claiming Obamacare enrollee population is too small and mix is too old Mulligan Health and Early Retirement 16 01-16-2014 02:15 PM
Claiming Your Wife's Inheritance After She's Dead Amethyst Other topics 27 08-20-2013 02:05 PM
More on SS claiming strategies walkinwood FIRE and Money 9 08-03-2013 04:00 PM
Why would some get a trust vs. giving away assets and claiming against the lifetime x rec FIRE and Money 15 11-11-2007 03:32 PM

» Quick Links

 
All times are GMT -6. The time now is 11:34 AM.
 
Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.8 Beta 1
Copyright ©2000 - 2024, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.