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Old 07-30-2020, 10:33 AM   #41
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My hangup with all this is that I want to test drive the actual vehicle I end up buying.
Same here, so my plan is to visit a dealer and test drive the desired vehicle. I did that when looking to buy a new F150 two years ago. I drove it home and DW had such a hard time getting in and out, I didn't make a purchase of any F150.

I would have been in trouble if I willy-nilly just bought one and expected her to be able to navigate the height of entry.
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Old 07-30-2020, 11:14 AM   #42
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I don't know that I would be buying a car, right now. As you might recall, my DW purchased a new car a few weeks ago. The car that was replaced was sold to Carvana.

While we were researching Carvana, I put in the information for my 2018 F-150 (with about 22K miles) and they made an offer that I thought was a bit high. I didn't think anything about it until yesterday when I got an email from Carvana with a "revised" offer for my truck. The revised offer was almost $2K more than they offered before and is now HIGHER than I paid for the truck TWO YEARS ago and the offer is $2990 over the KBB price.

Never in a million years would I have thought that I could buy a pretty standard F-150, drive it for two years, and then sell it for more than I paid. This tells me the auto market is all sorts of screwy.
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Old 07-30-2020, 04:20 PM   #43
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Don't confuse test driving with buying. You can test drive at any dealerships, or several dealerships.

Decide what you want, then go out to tender as it were and get you best out the door price from the internet or fleet sales folk at various dealerships.
So, if I make a deal online, or order a vehicle through a dealership, I still want to test drive the delivered vehicle and have the option of not taking possession of the vehicle?
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Old 07-30-2020, 05:09 PM   #44
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So, if I make a deal online, or order a vehicle through a dealership, I still want to test drive the delivered vehicle and have the option of not taking possession of the vehicle?
When I bought my vehicle via the "best out the door price quote reverse auction" method, they delivered it to my driveway and were totally cool with me taking it on a short test drive just to make sure the vehicle was in proper shape.

I don't think they would have been too happy if I declined delivery for a personal preference like the entry height being too high that I should have discovered by a regular test drive. But I think they would have been OK with me rejecting the vehicle for a specific quality reason like the paint on the hood peeling off or the radiator was missing or the windshield was caved in by a large rock or something like that.

In my case, the vehicle arrived in my driveway, I took it on a five minute drive, did a walk around, and then wrote them a check and sent them on their way.
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Old 07-30-2020, 05:21 PM   #45
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I worked for an auto manufacturer for 24 years, however that was many years ago. I still know a few dealer principals and sales managers from "the old days" that shoot me a straight deal. My family still owns a luxury car dealership in a large city also.

The retail automobile market has always been a very competitive business, and dealers often spar against each other for personal satisfaction. There's always one or more dealers everywhere that will "deal" aggressively--especially against each other. (They often don't care for the competition."

The trick is to identify the aggressive dealers and play them against each other.

I avoid large chain dealerships like the plague. I don't like how their people are treated and that they charge ridiculous Documentary Fees--even to their own employees. I prefer home owned dealerships with sales forces that are there year to year.

I recently bought a new 1/2 ton truck after receiving a $3K coupon in the mail--on top of a ridiculous number of other manufacturers' incentives of all kinds. It took the dealer 1/2 hour just to figure out the rebates--so many options to be made.

Good luck on figuring out who the aggressive dealers are in your retail market. Not all places have Akins Fords, Brandon Fords or Laura Buick-GMC dealerships.
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Old 07-30-2020, 07:08 PM   #46
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So, if I make a deal online, or order a vehicle through a dealership, I still want to test drive the delivered vehicle and have the option of not taking possession of the vehicle?
I do it backwards from what you wrote. I test drive vehicles as if I was a conventional buyer to decide the vehicle that I want. Then I build it on the manufacturer's website and on Trucar. Then I contact a handful of dealers within 200 miles and ask for their best out-the-door price on the vehicle that I built.

The last time I did that my local dealer was $200 more than the best price that was 150 miles away. I decided that I was willing to pay the extra $200 to avoid 300 miles of driving and the goodwill of having it serviced where I bought it.
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Old 07-30-2020, 07:15 PM   #47
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So.... what make, model, and options are you getting?
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Old 08-01-2020, 11:34 AM   #48
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So, if I make a deal online, or order a vehicle through a dealership, I still want to test drive the delivered vehicle and have the option of not taking possession of the vehicle?
Of course. Test drive the vehicle, before you close the deal.
After getting the "out the door price", I drive to the Dealer, test drive the vehicle, be sure it runs OK, then complete the deal.

No Dealer expects you to hand "over" your $$$, before you drive the vehicle.
Change your mind, if there is something "wrong". ie. Vehicle does not run,start,mechanical issues, ie......
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Old 08-01-2020, 12:06 PM   #49
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Originally Posted by ExFlyBoy5 View Post
I don't know that I would be buying a car, right now. As you might recall, my DW purchased a new car a few weeks ago. The car that was replaced was sold to Carvana.

While we were researching Carvana, I put in the information for my 2018 F-150 (with about 22K miles) and they made an offer that I thought was a bit high. I didn't think anything about it until yesterday when I got an email from Carvana with a "revised" offer for my truck. The revised offer was almost $2K more than they offered before and is now HIGHER than I paid for the truck TWO YEARS ago and the offer is $2990 over the KBB price.

Never in a million years would I have thought that I could buy a pretty standard F-150, drive it for two years, and then sell it for more than I paid. This tells me the auto market is all sorts of screwy.
I'm guessing here...

Lots of demand for vehicles that can TOW, because people are buying RVs for these stay near home vacations.

Lots of demand for work vehicles. I don't know about your area, but people are nesting and the remodel market is HOT. Skilled construction workers have jobs, if they want them. They may need a truck. Many trucks are full of workers, so perhaps some of the more established workers may want to DRIVE ALONE instead of carrying 4 of your best germ carriers with you.
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Old 08-01-2020, 09:38 PM   #50
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I'm guessing here...

Lots of demand for vehicles that can TOW, because people are buying RVs for these stay near home vacations.

Lots of demand for work vehicles. I don't know about your area, but people are nesting and the remodel market is HOT. Skilled construction workers have jobs, if they want them. They may need a truck. Many trucks are full of workers, so perhaps some of the more established workers may want to DRIVE ALONE instead of carrying 4 of your best germ carriers with you.


The F150 is a very popular vehicle but not that great for towing and desirable but not too valuable as a work truck. Itd be interesting to see what the actual comps are. Pickup values are likely regional and a seller like Carvana can easily use that to their advantage.
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Old 08-02-2020, 05:11 AM   #51
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The F150 is a very popular vehicle but not that great for towing and desirable but not too valuable as a work truck. Itd be interesting to see what the actual comps are. Pickup values are likely regional and a seller like Carvana can easily use that to their advantage.
I have a 2 month old F150 with the 2.7 Ecoboost. The engine is surprisingly powerful with 0-60 mph in less than 6 seconds and the quarter mile in the mid 14 seconds. It drives and handles great--especially in comparison with my F250 diesel tow truck.

I towed my 24 foot boat with the F150 yesterday, and it had plenty of power. But like all 1/2 ton trucks, its now more car like--and is more for looks than carrying heavy weights in the bed.

With a $3K manufacturer coupon on top of a bunch of sales incentives--the price was really right. We're really enjoying the new truck, however.
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Old 08-02-2020, 07:34 AM   #52
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jazz,

My 1/2 T Chevy tows my 7,000 pound boat quite well - sure, a 3/4 T with big diesel would tow more, but that is simply a scaling issue.

Euros drive small cars and tow trailers with them - not as fast as US ...

Sorry, don’t understand your comment.
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Old 08-04-2020, 12:38 PM   #53
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The F150 is a very popular vehicle but not that great for towing and desirable but not too valuable as a work truck. It’d be interesting to see what the actual comps are. Pickup values are likely regional and a seller like Carvana can easily use that to their advantage.
People quite frequently overestimate what their vehicle is safely capable of towing. When I went looking, I spent time looking at the payload values (which unfortunately are not on the sticker and thus not viewable online).

My 2015 F150 supercab w/XLT and 302 option pakage and 3.5L Ecoboost has a payload rating over 2000#. (Of course, one needs to adjust that for any weight put in the truck, including tools, mats, bed liner, ...) The 3.5L turbo tows like a beast - handles a 20 foot utility trailer plus Kubota L series like it is nothing (compared to my old 2003 Chevy Silverado). I use a weigh-safe hitch w/scale: https://www.etrailer.com/Trailer-Hit....html?feed=npn which make it super easy to know how much weight is on the tongue.

p.s. As a data point, I was able to get this truck with 44K+ sticker for 34K + taxes (no other fees).
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Old 08-04-2020, 12:47 PM   #54
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Lots of online tools to assist - whether buying or ensuring your truck is what you thought it was.

This one will get you to VIN level information - pretty cool ... links to various forums for more info ...

https://tap.fremontmotors.com/truste...r#.XymsQi2z2WY
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Old 08-04-2020, 12:50 PM   #55
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Euros drive small cars and tow trailers with them - not as fast as US ...
Yeah, what's up with that?

I think it is somewhat of a collusion by the automakers to drive us (pun not intended) to higher value vehicles. They downplay tow capacity all the time, many times not recommending towing at all. Meanwhile in Europe, towing a caravan seems like THE summer thing to do with their smaller sedans. I even see recommendations to tow up to 85% of the vehicle weight.

No way that's recommended here. My Subaru for example: Subaru warns against towing. If pushed, it says 1000# max on a 3300# vehicle.

Something's not adding up, and I don't think it is all automatic vs. manual transmission either.

I feel if I ever put a tow hitch on the thing, they'll automatically void any powertrain warranty issue.
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Old 08-04-2020, 03:39 PM   #56
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Yeah, what's up with that?

I think it is somewhat of a collusion by the automakers to drive us (pun not intended) to higher value vehicles. They downplay tow capacity all the time, many times not recommending towing at all. Meanwhile in Europe, towing a caravan seems like THE summer thing to do with their smaller sedans. I even see recommendations to tow up to 85% of the vehicle weight.

No way that's recommended here. My Subaru for example: Subaru warns against towing. If pushed, it says 1000# max on a 3300# vehicle.

Something's not adding up, and I don't think it is all automatic vs. manual transmission either.

I feel if I ever put a tow hitch on the thing, they'll automatically void any powertrain warranty issue.
There a number of reasons for this. Towing increases warranty costs and liability, so for a market with little interest in towing (cars and small SUVs) it makes no sense to maximize the towing rating. Contrast that to pickups where there is a constant race to claim the highest tow rating and eventually a common SAE towing test procedure was agreed upon to level the playing field. Also, because gas is so cheap here, people are glad to go out and buy a huge pickup to tow with. It makes towing easy, pickups are profitable and everyone is happy.

My favorite example of car towing capability deflation was the old Ford Crown Victoria. It used to rated for 5000 pounds but then over a series of years as the powertrain and brakes were upgraded, the tow rating was reduced all the way to 1500 pounds. All the while, it was basically the same car on the Panther body on frame chassis.
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