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Old 04-17-2019, 09:50 AM   #61
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[/B]
I hope you are right about other states getting on board. I would imagine the cost to keep people alive is a large cost for States.

One question how are Life Insurance Policy's going to be handled, are they going to be granted them, once a person takes their own life??
Oops. Missed DC

Assume that life insurance won't payout
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Old 04-17-2019, 09:57 AM   #62
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Assume that life insurance won't payout
why? suicides are one of the causes of death that are used to derive the mortality rates used in calculating LI premiums

most LI policies have a one or two year exclusion period for suicides to limit adverse selection

I'm not an insurance expert; I just learned this studying for exams when I was younger so someone who is a SME feel free to correct me.
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Old 04-17-2019, 10:02 AM   #63
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why? suicides are one of the causes of death that are used to derive the mortality rates used in calculating LI premiums

most LI policies have a one or two year exclusion period for suicides to limit adverse selection

I'm not an insurance expert; I just learned this studying for exams when I was younger so someone who is a SME feel free to correct me.
Good to know!
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Old 04-17-2019, 03:48 PM   #64
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Suicide is illegal; one could end up in jail...
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I never did understand the rationale for anyone who was stopped or survived. And I don't buy into anyone's religious beliefs being forced on me as a reason.
The reason suicide is illegal is that the law is a mechanism to get the person in front of a judge who has the authority to order a medical/mental exam, and treatment if deemed necessary, the legal presumption being that a sane person does not want to die.

Yes, one may argue that the law is wrong. If that is the case call your congresscritters, they're the one's who can change it.
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Old 04-18-2019, 10:26 AM   #65
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The reason suicide is illegal is that the law is a mechanism to get the person in front of a judge who has the authority to order a medical/mental exam, and treatment if deemed necessary, the legal presumption being that a sane person does not want to die.
My answer to that is "treatment of what?" Treatment that one intended to commit suicide or treatment of the grim or dreadful situation they're in?
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Old 04-18-2019, 10:35 AM   #66
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Our Lives Never End Well ...
We will all die. So, there's democracy in death.

However, some die frowning with pain, some peacefully in their sleep. We just do not know what it will be for ourselves.
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Old 04-18-2019, 11:23 AM   #67
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The reason suicide is illegal is that the law is a mechanism to get the person in front of a judge who has the authority to order a medical/mental exam, and treatment if deemed necessary, the legal presumption being that a sane person does not want to die.

Yes, one may argue that the law is wrong. If that is the case call your congresscritters, they're the one's who can change it.

I understand what you are saying but if successful it is a moot point. I also believe the law should take into consideration that living in severe and chronic pain with no hope of improvement would drive anyone to make that decision. Anyone who doesn't think so is not experiencing life under those circumstances and has no right to dictate to others. I submit there are no congresscritters who make the laws are living with these kind of experiences.


Rant over. Time to take my meds.



Cheers!
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Old 04-18-2019, 12:54 PM   #68
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Old 04-18-2019, 01:01 PM   #69
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"After the chess game, the king and the pawn go back into the same box"
^^Great quote
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Old 04-20-2019, 07:39 PM   #70
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My father was in law enforcement. I remember asking him when I was young why suicide was a crime. He gave an answer similar to Walt, also that it allowed for involuntary hospitalization for observation.

This included the 18 year old whose girlfriend just broke up with him; young mother with postpartum depression; people on psychotropic drugs or bad reactions to prescription medications; those in abusive domestic situations who think there is no way out; clinically depressed individuals overwhelmed with hopelessness - but not having had the opportunity for treatment.

There is not much press given to successful interventions.

There are those who went through the darkness, and came out the other side.

These cases are NOT on par with the terminally ill or those in intractable pain; which is one reason that suicide laws have to be well thought out.
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Old 04-20-2019, 10:20 PM   #71
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I sometimes think about buying a gun as an alternative to painful & prolonged death. I watched my brother going through 8 years of fighting cancer before most of his organs failed. Watching his end made me think about having an easier way out. Gun shot to the head seems to be painless, although messy. Morbid talk, I know, but death comes to us all and we need to prepare.
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Old 04-20-2019, 10:36 PM   #72
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I sometimes I think about buying a gun as an alternative to painful & prolonged death. I watched my brother going through 8 years of fighting cancer before most of his organs failed. Watching his end made me think about having an easier way out. Gun shot to the head seems to be painless, although messy. Morbid talk, I know, but death comes to us all and we need to prepare.
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Old 04-21-2019, 05:41 AM   #73
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I helped my dog cross over last week. Broke my heart, but I knew she wasn't enjoying her life anymore, her little body was worn out, and it was time to end her suffering. I was impressed with how quick and painless it was. She slipped out of her fur suit and was gone in a flash.

I wish we had a similar option for people, with us making the decision for ourselves, of course. I have thought about this, as it sounds like many people have. Terminal cancer, dementia, some kind of deteriorating pulmonary condition, etc. I would do myself in. It wouldn't conflict with my spiritual beliefs.

I would probably DIY, rather than try to get someone else to do it for me. I like the concept of medically assisted suicide (no risk of botching the job), but regulations seem restrictive, and you may have to be a resident of those few places first, then go through lots of red tape. I would never ask someone else (e.g., a spouse or friend) to do it; I would worry that would leave them with guilt and a terrible last memory. I'll take care of it myself.

I've read too many horror stories of people being kept alive by medical science, long after any quality of life has gone. Some of them are miserable and beg to die, but they keep being kept alive because medical ethics (and the profit motive) require it. It is sad and worrisome.

Hopefully I'll just drop dead quickly and not have to worry about any of this. Passing in my sleep sounds ideal.

Well, thanks for the cheerful Sunday morning discussion. Happy Easter, everyone.
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Old 04-21-2019, 07:22 AM   #74
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I helped my dog cross over last week. Broke my heart, but I knew she wasn't enjoying her life anymore, her little body was worn out, and it was time to end her suffering. I was impressed with how quick and painless it was. She slipped out of her fur suit and was gone in a flash.

I wish we had a similar option for people, with us making the decision for ourselves, of course. I have thought about this, as it sounds like many people have. Terminal cancer, dementia, some kind of deteriorating pulmonary condition, etc. I would do myself in. It wouldn't conflict with my spiritual beliefs.

I would probably DIY, rather than try to get someone else to do it for me. I like the concept of medically assisted suicide (no risk of botching the job), but regulations seem restrictive, and you may have to be a resident of those few places first, then go through lots of red tape. I would never ask someone else (e.g., a spouse or friend) to do it; I would worry that would leave them with guilt and a terrible last memory. I'll take care of it myself.

I've read too many horror stories of people being kept alive by medical science, long after any quality of life has gone. Some of them are miserable and beg to die, but they keep being kept alive because medical ethics (and the profit motive) require it. It is sad and worrisome.

Hopefully I'll just drop dead quickly and not have to worry about any of this. Passing in my sleep sounds ideal.

Well, thanks for the cheerful Sunday morning discussion. Happy Easter, everyone.
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My DGF is against it due to her religious beliefs, but if I have the beginning of a known no cure long time effect disease such as Alzheimers, I will do what is necessary.
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Old 04-21-2019, 07:46 AM   #75
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I found this book helpful on talking about these issues in depth with DH. I used to have deep spiritual reservations about courses of action associated with death. Iím still deeply spiritual but now see things in terms of whether they prolong death vs. prolonging life and have a much wider view.

https://www.goodreads.com/book/show/...Loving_People_
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Old 04-21-2019, 10:25 AM   #76
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I helped my dog cross over last week. Broke my heart, but I knew she wasn't enjoying her life anymore, her little body was worn out, and it was time to end her suffering. I was impressed with how quick and painless it was. She slipped out of her fur suit and was gone in a flash.
My condolences on the loss of your little dog. You gave her a great gift by giving her a peaceful passing.
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Old 04-21-2019, 12:31 PM   #77
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We are kinder to animals than to people.
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Old 04-21-2019, 02:10 PM   #78
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The coroner couldn't find anything wrong with some of the people that Kevorkian killed. He didn't require terminal illness or other specific justification. Initially he maintained that he was helping but not actively causing death but then he videotaped himself injecting lethal drugs into man with ALS resulting in an easy homicide conviction. One of the people he killed had apparently been misdiagnosed as having MS.

Guns are not foolproof. When I was a student they had a guy in the hospital who had managed to transect both optic nerves resulting in permanent blindness, He also caused some brain injury and was in the ICU for a long time before presumably becoming dependent on others for life long care. Here is a link to a story of a woman who survived an impulsive gun shot to the head: https://www.cracked.com/personal-exp...d-to-face.html
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Old 04-21-2019, 05:57 PM   #79
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We have figured out how to get our animals out of this world, but we insist on letting humans suffer to the end.
+1 Nicely stated.
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Old 04-22-2019, 11:55 AM   #80
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A very difficult decision. Personal peace can come at a cost to others. Sharing the reasons and settling the potential hurt for them would be my number 1 concern. The matter of being here or not will not come up for a vote.
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