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No number credit cards
Old 11-26-2022, 02:34 AM   #1
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No number credit cards

Well over 10 years ago Chip and PIN (no signature ever needed) became the norm over here to cut down on fraud but if the physical card was stolen along with the address of the owner then it is still possible to have it used fraudulently online.

Our daughter moved back to England recently and opened a bank account with Chase UK. She received her debit card a couple of days ago and it has no numbers printed on it at all. When she went online using the Chase app to activate it and it gave her the option to add it to her iPhone so she can pay with Apple Pay. The app shows the card number also has the CCV security code for her to use it online. Another step towards reducing fraud.
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Old 11-26-2022, 04:55 AM   #2
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Cool!

As tourists we’ve been much relieved by the Apple Pay adoption in Europe.
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Old 11-26-2022, 04:59 AM   #3
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I think the Apple Card was the first to have no numbers on it. A good system, and perfectly easy to look in the Wallet app to see them. They also change the CVV periodically, which is another good fraud prevention measure.
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Old 11-26-2022, 08:55 AM   #4
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I think the Apple Card was the first to have no numbers on it. A good system, and perfectly easy to look in the Wallet app to see them. They also change the CVV periodically, which is another good fraud prevention measure.
You have to tell it to change the CVV. I didnít realize it did that until I was looking at the options the other day and changing the CVV is one of the options. In my initial set up, it defaulted to not changing the CVV. Not sure why.
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Old 11-26-2022, 09:10 AM   #5
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I think the Apple Card was the first to have no numbers on it. A good system, and perfectly easy to look in the Wallet app to see them. They also change the CVV periodically, which is another good fraud prevention measure.
Another cool feature is that the physical card number is different from the number you would use online. So if the online number gets compromised, you donít have to get a new physical card, just push a button to get a new online-use number.
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Old 11-26-2022, 09:35 AM   #6
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Another cool feature is that the physical card number is different from the number you would use online. So if the online number gets compromised, you donít have to get a new physical card, just push a button to get a new online-use number.
Nice. I wants one.
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Old 11-26-2022, 10:07 AM   #7
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You have to tell it to change the CVV. I didnít realize it did that until I was looking at the options the other day and changing the CVV is one of the options. In my initial set up, it defaulted to not changing the CVV. Not sure why.
Interesting. Changing must have been the default at one time, because I was an early adopter of that card and it came that way.
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Old 11-26-2022, 10:12 AM   #8
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Nice. I wants one.
I don't.

It would violate my rule against having any financial apps on my phone or tablet. Phones and tablets get stolen and get lost, sometimes falling into the hands of bad guys.
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Old 11-26-2022, 10:17 AM   #9
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I don't.

It would violate my rule against having any financial apps on my phone or tablet. Phones and tablets get stolen and get lost, sometimes falling into the hands of bad guys.
Password your device.
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Old 11-26-2022, 10:18 AM   #10
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Another cool feature is that the physical card number is different from the number you would use online. So if the online number gets compromised, you donít have to get a new physical card, just push a button to get a new online-use number.
Capital One has a similar system called ENO. I use alternative numbers for online pahyments of all types. If one gets compromised I don't have to spend an hour or more changing the CC number on all the other payments

And, each number can only be used with the original merchant. Steal an ENO number from Netlfix and it can't be used on Amazon. You can also lock the individual card numbers immediately or at a future date. Of course, you can delete a number any time you wish. This helps avoid on-going unwanted charges.
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Old 11-26-2022, 10:20 AM   #11
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I'm guessing this works with Android phones as well ?
Otherwise the blank CC is of less value to me.

A downside is this forces people to have a smart phone, so a few older folks I know are cut off from this.
Cutting folks off from various things that appear online in various ways is something I've noticed happening a lot more, as I assist some older relatives.
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Old 11-26-2022, 10:23 AM   #12
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Password your device.
Could work for the snatch and run fellow, but saw a video of a Chicago shooting victim, where the thief forced the shot victim to reveal/unlock the phone before shooting him again and leaving with the phone.

I guess if you use fingerprint unlock, they only have to cut off the finger.
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Old 11-26-2022, 10:24 AM   #13
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I don't.

It would violate my rule against having any financial apps on my phone or tablet. Phones and tablets get stolen and get lost, sometimes falling into the hands of bad guys.
I don't put financial apps on my phone either, and don't pay with my phone. Good thing as sometimes I accidentally leave it at home to go shopping
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Old 11-26-2022, 10:28 AM   #14
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Could work for the snatch and run fellow, but saw a video of a Chicago shooting victim, where the thief forced the shot victim to reveal/unlock the phone before shooting him again and leaving with the phone.

I guess if you use fingerprint unlock, they only have to cut off the finger.
If I am dead - I guess I donít care.
The liability of having a credit card on your phone is zero.
The convenience is priceless.
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Old 11-26-2022, 10:29 AM   #15
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Password your device.
Do you believe in the Tooth Fairy too? Maybe I could also put a piece of tape on it saying: "Do not steal this." Sorry, cyber-life is more complicated than simple passwords can deal with.

Actually there was a recently-busted criminal group locally that would get victims to show their phones, then force the victim to disclose passwords and transfer funds via Zelle or Venmo using the apps on the phone. Hard to do if the apps are not there.
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Old 11-26-2022, 10:41 AM   #16
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Do you believe in the Tooth Fairy too? Maybe I could also put a piece of tape on it saying: "Do not steal this." Sorry, cyber-life is more complicated than simple passwords can deal with.

Actually there was a recently-busted criminal group locally that would get victims to show their phones, then force the victim to disclose passwords and transfer funds via Zelle or Venmo using the apps on the phone. Hard to do if the apps are not there.
I always had money under my pillow when I lost a tooth.

There are limits on transfers, you should know that.

I am not sure why people would make their lives so inconvenient and out of touch with technology to avoid a crime that would be a so unlikely to happen to them.
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Old 11-26-2022, 10:50 AM   #17
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I have an Apple Card and it works well for most purposes, but when I wanted to use it to rent a car in Australia recently, the rental agency would not accept it, saying that not having a visible card number did not work with their system.

Not a big problem as I have other “normal" cards, but I'm glad I had backup.
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Old 11-26-2022, 10:50 AM   #18
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Could work for the snatch and run fellow, but saw a video of a Chicago shooting victim, where the thief forced the shot victim to reveal/unlock the phone before shooting him again and leaving with the phone.

I guess if you use fingerprint unlock, they only have to cut off the finger.
Iíve seen those movies and donít want my finger cut off or my eye cut out.
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Old 11-26-2022, 10:58 AM   #19
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Password your device.
Use finger or face ID.
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Old 11-26-2022, 11:04 AM   #20
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... I am not sure why people would make their lives so inconvenient and out of touch with technology to avoid a crime that would be a so unlikely to happen to them.
Formal risk management involves looking at impact, probability, and cost to mitigate. Any risk with non-trivial impact that has a zero cost to mitigate makes probability irrelevant. That is the case here for me: It costs me nothing to avoid the risk simply by not loading financial apps.

Re being in touch with technology is that somehow a standalone good? Technology provides tools just like a hammer or a fork. I have all the tech credentials (degrees, patents, refereed publications, ... ) and am happy to use any tool that I need. One thing a career in technology has taught me, though, is that it is the guys out front who have the arrows in their chests. I am very content to have the early adopters test and debug the tools before I adopt one of them.
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