NUA guidance... Fidelity Investment Center?

[always_learning]

DH has a portion of his 401k in company stock that would benefit us greatly by taking advantage of the NUA rules.

NUA info is hard to find on the 'net other than the 'it's complicated so see a pro' advice.

Would we benefit by going in person to meet with someone at a Fidelity branch to get instructions on how to do this or are the investor centers really more for general investing advice?

Also, if anyone has done this (NUA), can you clarify if the 401k must be emptied in the same tax year as employment termination or just emptied in one tax year, meaning we could wait a few years after retirement before messing with the 401K? I have read confusing info. The 401k SPD makes it sound like it must be emptied in the tax year of separation from the company, but what if one's last day is Dec 31?

Thanks for any advice!

 

[scrabbler1]

I used NUA when I ERed and left my company back in late 2008. Half the 401k I had was in company stock. I don't know if it was a Plan rule or a law, but I had to empty the entire 401k in order to use NUA on the company stock. I did both at the same time, so I don't know if I was allowed to delay the 401k liquidation. I ended up doing a trustee-to-trustee rollover into a Fidelity IRA.


I learned about NUA from my employer a few years before I left. When I told my employer I was leaving, the benefits department gave me a big packet of papers which asked me how I wanted to handle the disposition of the 401k. It listed NUA as one of the options for the company stock. Because I had company stock, pretax contributions, after-tax contributions, and pretax earnings, I had to specify what I wanted to do with each portion, including obtaining a special Medallion signature from my local bank because I was going to do a large ACH transfer of some of the funds.


Bogleheads has several threads about NUA. Do a search for "NUA" and look for posts by Alan S., a very knowledgeable poster on this topic. I have made some posts in NUA threads there, too, but he knows a lot more than I do.


I don't know how much Fidelity reps know about NUA. Even though I'm a Fido client, I never had to ask my Account Executive about NUA.

 

[gerntz]

I'm not a CPA.

I did NUA in 2005 after separating in 2004 - different tax years.

Key is the NUA use only applies to Lump Sum Distributions from the 401k - completely emptying - such that if you start taking distributions and don't do it all in same tax year, you lose NUA advantage until you have another qualifying event for LSD such as the year you turn 59.5.

You also lose NUA if you roll the stock into an IRA. You must distribute the stock AS EMPLOYER STOCK (That can't be emphasized enough. I've seen people screw this up over & over.). Non-stock 401k assets can be, and probably should be, rolled into an IRA.

What I did is a) roll all non- employer stock assets into an IRA, b) distribute all company stock into a brokerage account (Actually at that time I got paper stock certificates.), and c) within 60 days of distribution from the 401k, I rolled shares equal+ to the cost basis of all the shares, still as company stock, into an IRA. The the net of this the shares remaining outside of the IRA had a collective and thus per share cost basis of $0 - the NUA. There are no taxes due on anything at this point/year. You pay LT cap gains rate when you sell even if next day. Those NUA shares also make for great charitable giving as no tax is ever paid. Note: Some people want to tell you you can't assign all of the shares' cost basis just to the distributed shares you rollover back into IRA. Not true.

Example: 401k of $1.5M, $0.5M non company stock, employer company stock of $1.0M with cost basis of $0.2M for NUA of $0.8M. All in one tax year, roll the $0.5M into an IRA, distribute the company stock AS COMPANY STOCK to taxable brokerage account, then within 60 days, rollover $0.2M+ (more is OK) AS COMPANY STOCK to an IRA, leaving $0.8M- in brokerage account as company stock at zero cost basis. You may not want on the NUA and choose to rollover more into the IRA.

Rolling employer stock into IRA ruins its NUA. You don't have to roll the cost basis amount into an IRA, but you then owe income taxes that year on the cost basis.

There is an article by Bruce E. Wertheim, CPA at KPMG in The CPA Journal in May, 1999 issue on this. See section on partial rollovers.

 

[Samething]

I used NUA when I ERed and left my company back in late 2008. Half the 401k I had was in company stock. I don't know if it was a Plan rule or a law, but I had to empty the entire 401k in order to use NUA on the company stock. I did both at the same time, so I don't know if I was allowed to delay the 401k liquidation. I ended up doing a trustee-to-trustee rollover into a Fidelity IRA.


I learned about NUA from my employer a few years before I left. When I told my employer I was leaving, the benefits department gave me a big packet of papers which asked me how I wanted to handle the disposition of the 401k. It listed NUA as one of the options for the company stock. Because I had company stock, pretax contributions, after-tax contributions, and pretax earnings, I had to specify what I wanted to do with each portion, including obtaining a special Medallion signature from my local bank because I was going to do a large ACH transfer of some of the funds.


Bogleheads has several threads about NUA. Do a search for "NUA" and look for posts by Alan S., a very knowledgeable poster on this topic. I have made some posts in NUA threads there, too, but he knows a lot more than I do.


I don't know how much Fidelity reps know about NUA. Even though I'm a Fido client, I never had to ask my Account Executive about NUA.

I used NUA for company stock I held in my company ESOP when I retired in June this year. I talked to my accountant rep at Fidelity right before I retired about NUA when I made an appointment to set up my rollover IRA. When we met to set everything up he had a pretty good explanation of the process. That being said I did go to a CPA to make sure of the procedures. In addition to Bogleheads the Ed Slott website has some good information about the rules and processes.
Yes I did have to take full distribution of my ESOP and 401k to use NUA. As for having to do it within that tax year I’m not absolutely sure so I don’t want to tell you the wrong info.

 

[scrabbler1]

I used NUA for company stock I held in my company ESOP when I retired in June this year. I talked to my accountant rep at Fidelity right before I retired about NUA when I made an appointment to set up my rollover IRA. When we met to set everything up he had a pretty good explanation of the process. That being said I did go to a CPA to make sure of the procedures. In addition to Bogleheads the Ed Slott website has some good information about the rules and processes.
Yes I did have to take full distribution of my ESOP and 401k to use NUA. As for having to do it within that tax year I’m not absolutely sure so I don’t want to tell you the wrong info.

I think you meant to tell the OP about your experience, not me. That being said, our experiences with Fidelity had some similarities. I was working with my Fido AE before and after my last day at work. He set up my rollover IRA beforehand which helped me a lot (the 401k plan Admin needed an account number for the rollover check). About 2 weeks after my last day, I went to my AE to deliver the rollover check and set up the IRA, as well as make a large initial investment into the big bond fund (see my signature line) I did not want to do on line (might not have been able to do it on line because the amount was so large).

At tax time, putting all of this together was a minor hassle. I received multiple 1099-R forms and had to correctly describe and report the parts of the liquidation correctly on Form 1040 and Schedule D (cap gains). I included a separate statement describing each part of the total disbursement. One thing I did not realize until I was working on my taxes was that the NUA portion (for me, about 97% of the ESOP value) was not subject to the 10% tax penalty for early withdrawal (my age). This very pleasant surprise saved me about $27k in taxes I did not have to pay which I thought I would have to pay. I was subject to the AMT on the rest of my income, though.

 

[always_learning]

I used NUA when I ERed and left my company back in late 2008. Half the 401k I had was in company stock. I don't know if it was a Plan rule or a law, but I had to empty the entire 401k in order to use NUA on the company stock. I did both at the same time, so I don't know if I was allowed to delay the 401k liquidation. I ended up doing a trustee-to-trustee rollover into a Fidelity IRA.


I learned about NUA from my employer a few years before I left. When I told my employer I was leaving, the benefits department gave me a big packet of papers which asked me how I wanted to handle the disposition of the 401k. It listed NUA as one of the options for the company stock. Because I had company stock, pretax contributions, after-tax contributions, and pretax earnings, I had to specify what I wanted to do with each portion, including obtaining a special Medallion signature from my local bank because I was going to do a large ACH transfer of some of the funds.


Bogleheads has several threads about NUA. Do a search for "NUA" and look for posts by Alan S., a very knowledgeable poster on this topic. I have made some posts in NUA threads there, too, but he knows a lot more than I do.


I don't know how much Fidelity reps know about NUA. Even though I'm a Fido client, I never had to ask my Account Executive about NUA.

Thanks!


Dh also has amounts in all of the same categories that you did, and reading the SPD just skims the topic of distribution and doesn't get specific enough for me, defaulting to the usual "seek expert advice" or something to that effect. I'll have him ask HR when he makes his initial call to see if they have a packet like the one you describe.

I'll also check out Bogleheads and see if I can find more info.

 

[always_learning]

I'm not a CPA.

I did NUA in 2005 after separating in 2004 - different tax years.

Key is the NUA use only applies to Lump Sum Distributions from the 401k - completely emptying - such that if you start taking distributions and don't do it all in same tax year, you lose NUA advantage until you have another qualifying event for LSD such as the year you turn 59.5.

You also lose NUA if you roll the stock into an IRA. You must distribute the stock AS EMPLOYER STOCK (That can't be emphasized enough. I've seen people screw this up over & over.). Non-stock 401k assets can be, and probably should be, rolled into an IRA.

What I did is a) roll all non- employer stock assets into an IRA, b) distribute all company stock into a brokerage account (Actually at that time I got paper stock certificates.), and c) within 60 days of distribution from the 401k, I rolled shares equal+ to the cost basis of all the shares, still as company stock, into an IRA. The the net of this the shares remaining outside of the IRA had a collective and thus per share cost basis of $0 - the NUA. There are no taxes due on anything at this point/year. You pay LT cap gains rate when you sell even if next day. Those NUA shares also make for great charitable giving as no tax is ever paid. Note: Some people want to tell you you can't assign all of the shares' cost basis just to the distributed shares you rollover back into IRA. Not true.

Example: 401k of $1.5M, $0.5M non company stock, employer company stock of $1.0M with cost basis of $0.2M for NUA of $0.8M. All in one tax year, roll the $0.5M into an IRA, distribute the company stock AS COMPANY STOCK to taxable brokerage account, then within 60 days, rollover $0.2M+ (more is OK) AS COMPANY STOCK to an IRA, leaving $0.8M- in brokerage account as company stock at zero cost basis. You may not want on the NUA and choose to rollover more into the IRA.

Rolling employer stock into IRA ruins its NUA. You don't have to roll the cost basis amount into an IRA, but you then owe income taxes that year on the cost basis.

There is an article by Bruce E. Wertheim, CPA at KPMG in The CPA Journal in May, 1999 issue on this. See section on partial rollovers.

Thanks for the note that your distribution happened in a year different from your separation of service. That was a confusing part for me in Dh's SPD.

Did you also receive a packet where you indicated how to distribute your 401k where you choose the company stock be distributed "in kind"? That would make things simple.

Rolling the cost basis into an IRA within 60 days is not something I had thought of doing. I planned to pay taxes on it to help avoid RMDs but I'll have to rethink things and see what might be the best way to do this.

Thanks for the article tip. I'll look for it.

 

[always_learning]

I used NUA for company stock I held in my company ESOP when I retired in June this year. I talked to my accountant rep at Fidelity right before I retired about NUA when I made an appointment to set up my rollover IRA. When we met to set everything up he had a pretty good explanation of the process. That being said I did go to a CPA to make sure of the procedures. In addition to Bogleheads the Ed Slott website has some good information about the rules and processes.
Yes I did have to take full distribution of my ESOP and 401k to use NUA. As for having to do it within that tax year I’m not absolutely sure so I don’t want to tell you the wrong info.

Dumb question... since Dh's 401k is held at Fidelity, does that mean he has an assigned rep, or did you have a rep already for investments outside of your 401k?


I do have several articles from Ed Slott on NUA but the nuances of the "how to" aren't there (unless he has a new one out, which I'll check on). A step-by-step is what I can't seem to find.

I think you meant to tell the OP about your experience, not me. That being said, our experiences with Fidelity had some similarities. I was working with my Fido AE before and after my last day at work. He set up my rollover IRA beforehand which helped me a lot (the 401k plan Admin needed an account number for the rollover check). About 2 weeks after my last day, I went to my AE to deliver the rollover check and set up the IRA, as well as make a large initial investment into the big bond fund (see my signature line) I did not want to do on line (might not have been able to do it on line because the amount was so large).

At tax time, putting all of this together was a minor hassle. I received multiple 1099-R forms and had to correctly describe and report the parts of the liquidation correctly on Form 1040 and Schedule D (cap gains). I included a separate statement describing each part of the total disbursement. One thing I did not realize until I was working on my taxes was that the NUA portion (for me, about 97% of the ESOP value) was not subject to the 10% tax penalty for early withdrawal (my age). This very pleasant surprise saved me about $27k in taxes I did not have to pay which I thought I would have to pay. I was subject to the AMT on the rest of my income, though.

OK, now I'm getting nervous. Is this a process I can do myself online, or should I start looking for somewhere/someone to do this face-to-face? I was hoping to get the ball rolling right after dh retires (goal is this summer!) but we won't be anywhere near a Fidelity branch for a few months after that.

I also don't have an accountant because I've done our taxes (paper & pencil, not a program) for forever. Should I start looking for someone in the area we will be moving to consult with?

Also, can you clarify what a Fido AE is? A quick perusal of their website didn't help. Account.... Executive? Advisor Extraordinaire?

 

[scrabbler1]

OK, now I'm getting nervous. Is this a process I can do myself online, or should I start looking for somewhere/someone to do this face-to-face? I was hoping to get the ball rolling right after dh retires (goal is this summer!) but we won't be anywhere near a Fidelity branch for a few months after that.

I also don't have an accountant because I've done our taxes (paper & pencil, not a program) for forever. Should I start looking for someone in the area we will be moving to consult with?

Also, can you clarify what a Fido AE is? A quick perusal of their website didn't help. Account.... Executive? Advisor Extraordinaire?

First, a Fido AE is a Fidelity Account Executive. I was given one in 2007 or earlier in 2008, someone who was very helpful in the months leading up to and the transition into ER in late 2008. They kept leaving the local office, so I went through a few of them until I finally got one who has stuck around since 2010.

Your above reply to me as well as the earlier one tell me you have 401k savings and company stock in the overall account. I do my taxes on pencil and paper (and homemade spreadsheets, a.k.a. a glorified calculator), so I had expand the spreadsheets to handle all the one-time additions due to the 401k liquidation.

I also found the statement I included with my 2008 tax return describing the 4 distinct amounts shown on the two 1099-R forms I received in January of 2009. I had to add them up to show the total on what is now Line 4c of Form 1040. Here are the 4 parts, how I described them, where they came from, and where they went:

(1) All the pretax contributions and pretax earnings, from Form 1099-R, Code G, became a direct, trustee-to-trustee rollover and was therefore not subject to any income taxes. I did not include this on what is now Line 4d of Form 1040.

(2) All the after-tax contributions from Form 1099-R, Box 5, were not subject to income taxes and were not included on what is now Line 4d of Form 1040.

(3) The taxable amount (cost basis) of the company stock (I immediately sold back to the company) from Form 1099-R, Box 2, Code 1, was shown in 2 places. The first was what is now Form 1040, Line 4d. The second was the cost basis of the company stock shown on Schedule D (now Form 8949). For me, this amount was subject to the 10% tax penalty shown later in the return (Line 59 back then, I don't know where it is shown with the revamped forms and new schedules).

(4) The NUA from the sale of the company stock from Form 1099-R, Box 6, also shown as the capital gain on Schedule D (now Form 8949).

You will still have to complete the tax booklet's worksheet for determining taxes when you have qualified dividends and long-term cap gains. I had been completing that for several years, so all I had now was some bigger numbers.

I hope this is helpful.

 

[atmsmshr]

Fidelity Rolled my 401k to IRA at age 58 this past January for NUA treatment.

We lived off of savings after my retiring last year. By plan, we were running out of money in the new tax year. After several calls to different Fidelity IRA rollover specialists (just to make sure I understood the process and so did they), and two visits to a local Fidelity office we did the rollover.

Since Fidelity was the 401k plan administrator and now IRA custodian, a paperless / wire rollover occurred. (I asked several times to ensure that there would not be a large check floating around in the US Mail.)

I also asked several times to state the cost basis and recorded this amount. We had someone from the Fidelity office call an IRA rollover specialist during the actual roll - so I had this phone call recorded with two names. That was fortunate, because during the rollover period, they forgot to record the Cost Basis of the NUA treatment! It took me about 3 hours on the phone with different people to get that cleared up. With a large account, don't do this online by yourself - use a Fidelity office and IRA specialist on the phone. Take notes including dates and names. Ask for a repeat back on everything. Fidelity records all phone calls.

I had two different accounts with NEE stock matching contributions in my 401k. One was only a few years old, so not much appreciation. The other dated back to when I started work 33 years ago - the appreciation was eye popping. So the small new account simply rolled to the IRA - not much tax benefit. The larger and older account was rolled into a brokerage account.

I had a Fidelity app for my phone and a secure stand alone computer for banking. Checked every day for the progress. Took a week.

Fidelity has told me that they will show cost basis and other specifics on a 1099 next January - and that is when cost basis and LTCG taxes for any sold shares are due. They did not with hold any taxes.

NOTE - This was my first distribution from the 401k. You are allowed 401k withdraws that are tax free if separating from service before 59.5 but after 55 years of age.

NOTE - if you have any withdraws before 59.5, you can't use the NUA treatment until after another 'triggering event' following retirement such as turning 59.5, disability or my favorite - death. If you elect to perform the 401k to IRA rollover you need to empty the 401k. So under current tax regime, you can retire after 55, make your first 401k withdraw and IRA conversion with NUA treatment. Then live off the Cost Basis amount (taxed in that year of conversion) and LTCGs until tapping the IRA penalty free after age 59.5.

NOTE - I had Fidelity create some other 'holding' accounts. That way, when I sold stock from the brokerage account, I could take the settled cash and park it in a separate account. It is that separate account that I use to transfer cash to our credit union account for expenses. Deliberately did not link my brokerage account with any other external bank or credit union.

THE BIG NOTE - Any new (and frankly any old) accounts should have updated beneficiary listings. Whenever you make an account, ensure that you have TOD (Transfer On Death) to keep accounts from going through probate in the event of your passing. Brokerage account is Joint with DW (You cannot do that with an IRA), and after both of us pass they are TOD to children with equal split.

 

[always_learning]

First, a Fido AE is a Fidelity Account Executive. I was given one in 2007 or earlier in 2008, someone who was very helpful in the months leading up to and the transition into ER in late 2008. They kept leaving the local office, so I went through a few of them until I finally got one who has stuck around since 2010.

Your above reply to me as well as the earlier one tell me you have 401k savings and company stock in the overall account. I do my taxes on pencil and paper (and homemade spreadsheets, a.k.a. a glorified calculator), so I had expand the spreadsheets to handle all the one-time additions due to the 401k liquidation.

I also found the statement I included with my 2008 tax return describing the 4 distinct amounts shown on the two 1099-R forms I received in January of 2009. I had to add them up to show the total on what is now Line 4c of Form 1040. Here are the 4 parts, how I described them, where they came from, and where they went:

(1) All the pretax contributions and pretax earnings, from Form 1099-R, Code G, became a direct, trustee-to-trustee rollover and was therefore not subject to any income taxes. I did not include this on what is now Line 4d of Form 1040.

(2) All the after-tax contributions from Form 1099-R, Box 5, were not subject to income taxes and were not included on what is now Line 4d of Form 1040.

(3) The taxable amount (cost basis) of the company stock (I immediately sold back to the company) from Form 1099-R, Box 2, Code 1, was shown in 2 places. The first was what is now Form 1040, Line 4d. The second was the cost basis of the company stock shown on Schedule D (now Form 8949). For me, this amount was subject to the 10% tax penalty shown later in the return (Line 59 back then, I don't know where it is shown with the revamped forms and new schedules).

(4) The NUA from the sale of the company stock from Form 1099-R, Box 6, also shown as the capital gain on Schedule D (now Form 8949).

You will still have to complete the tax booklet's worksheet for determining taxes when you have qualified dividends and long-term cap gains. I had been completing that for several years, so all I had now was some bigger numbers.

I hope this is helpful.

That is extremely helpful. Thank you for typing all of that out!

Fidelity Rolled my 401k to IRA at age 58 this past January for NUA treatment.

We lived off of savings after my retiring last year. By plan, we were running out of money in the new tax year. After several calls to different Fidelity IRA rollover specialists (just to make sure I understood the process and so did they), and two visits to a local Fidelity office we did the rollover.

Since Fidelity was the 401k plan administrator and now IRA custodian, a paperless / wire rollover occurred. (I asked several times to ensure that there would not be a large check floating around in the US Mail.)

I also asked several times to state the cost basis and recorded this amount. We had someone from the Fidelity office call an IRA rollover specialist during the actual roll - so I had this phone call recorded with two names. That was fortunate, because during the rollover period, they forgot to record the Cost Basis of the NUA treatment! It took me about 3 hours on the phone with different people to get that cleared up. With a large account, don't do this online by yourself - use a Fidelity office and IRA specialist on the phone. Take notes including dates and names. Ask for a repeat back on everything. Fidelity records all phone calls.

I had two different accounts with NEE stock matching contributions in my 401k. One was only a few years old, so not much appreciation. The other dated back to when I started work 33 years ago - the appreciation was eye popping. So the small new account simply rolled to the IRA - not much tax benefit. The larger and older account was rolled into a brokerage account.

I had a Fidelity app for my phone and a secure stand alone computer for banking. Checked every day for the progress. Took a week.

Fidelity has told me that they will show cost basis and other specifics on a 1099 next January - and that is when cost basis and LTCG taxes for any sold shares are due. They did not with hold any taxes.

NOTE - This was my first distribution from the 401k. You are allowed 401k withdraws that are tax free if separating from service before 59.5 but after 55 years of age.

NOTE - if you have any withdraws before 59.5, you can't use the NUA treatment until after another 'triggering event' following retirement such as turning 59.5, disability or my favorite - death. If you elect to perform the 401k to IRA rollover you need to empty the 401k. So under current tax regime, you can retire after 55, make your first 401k withdraw and IRA conversion with NUA treatment. Then live off the Cost Basis amount (taxed in that year of conversion) and LTCGs until tapping the IRA penalty free after age 59.5.

NOTE - I had Fidelity create some other 'holding' accounts. That way, when I sold stock from the brokerage account, I could take the settled cash and park it in a separate account. It is that separate account that I use to transfer cash to our credit union account for expenses. Deliberately did not link my brokerage account with any other external bank or credit union.

THE BIG NOTE - Any new (and frankly any old) accounts should have updated beneficiary listings. Whenever you make an account, ensure that you have TOD (Transfer On Death) to keep accounts from going through probate in the event of your passing. Brokerage account is Joint with DW (You cannot do that with an IRA), and after both of us pass they are TOD to children with equal split.

Thank you, also, for typing all of that out. It's very helpful.

Like you, I take names of people who are helping me, but it's a good reminder to be extra cautious with this. A mistake could be quite costly.

Since you had issues with the NUA/cost basis recording, I'm starting to think that we should wait to do anything until we are in our new location where there is a Fidelity office within driving distance. I'd rather be face-to-face with someone as opposed to dealing with whoever answers the phone line.

 

[Whisper66]

I had a 401k all in company stock. Last year after 4 yrs after retirement I rolled over everything into Vanguard accounts. In my company 401k plan, everything had to be moved in the same year to take advantage of NUA. My roll over included (1) 401k roth funds rolled over into a VG Roth account (2) a large portion of NUA stock into a VG brokerage account (3) remaining stock into Vanguard IRA account. Taxes were due only on the NUA stock. The amount of taxes I was willing to pay was what set the amount of stock I decided to transfer as NUA stock into my brokerage.

Before doing this rollover, I read up on my company plan and wrote down what I thought I wanted to do. Contacted our company group that handles 401k distributions and talked through the plan to ensure I wasn't doing anything silly. Then I contacted Vanguard who assigned me a 401k rollover specialist to assist in the move. That last step was a good move. I reviewed my rollover plans with the VG specialist so she understood what I wanted done.

Vanguard rep and I contacted company rep in a conference call to make the official request to rollover the funds. With my approval, VG rep did most of the talking. I understand the lingo mostly but I found it easier to follow and answer questions rather than lead the discussion. Once order was made, VG rep caught error in paperwork when it arrived at VG and led a several week effort with multiple conference calls to get it corrected before the funds were actually deposited. The basic error in the paperwork was that the transfer didn't recognize the Roth funds as tax paid. So if not caught, I eventually would have paid taxes again on those funds. I was quite pleased with the VG assistance in this rollover.

 

[gerntz]

Thanks for the note that your distribution happened in a year different from your separation of service. That was a confusing part for me in Dh's SPD.

Did you also receive a packet where you indicated how to distribute your 401k where you choose the company stock be distributed "in kind"? That would make things simple.

Again, it has to be a LSD, not dribbled out any at all over multiple years.

No recollection of packet. I've heard of "in kind", but don't know meaning today.

 

[always_learning]

I had a 401k all in company stock. Last year after 4 yrs after retirement I rolled over everything into Vanguard accounts. In my company 401k plan, everything had to be moved in the same year to take advantage of NUA. My roll over included (1) 401k roth funds rolled over into a VG Roth account (2) a large portion of NUA stock into a VG brokerage account (3) remaining stock into Vanguard IRA account. Taxes were due only on the NUA stock. The amount of taxes I was willing to pay was what set the amount of stock I decided to transfer as NUA stock into my brokerage.

Before doing this rollover, I read up on my company plan and wrote down what I thought I wanted to do. Contacted our company group that handles 401k distributions and talked through the plan to ensure I wasn't doing anything silly. Then I contacted Vanguard who assigned me a 401k rollover specialist to assist in the move. That last step was a good move. I reviewed my rollover plans with the VG specialist so she understood what I wanted done.

Vanguard rep and I contacted company rep in a conference call to make the official request to rollover the funds. With my approval, VG rep did most of the talking. I understand the lingo mostly but I found it easier to follow and answer questions rather than lead the discussion. Once order was made, VG rep caught error in paperwork when it arrived at VG and led a several week effort with multiple conference calls to get it corrected before the funds were actually deposited. The basic error in the paperwork was that the transfer didn't recognize the Roth funds as tax paid. So if not caught, I eventually would have paid taxes again on those funds. I was quite pleased with the VG assistance in this rollover.

A 401k rollover specialist.... I'll make note of that.

So glad your VG rep caught the error. I'm really hoping that when we start to do this, that it goes well.

Again, it has to be a LSD, not dribbled out any at all over multiple years.

No recollection of packet. I've heard of "in kind", but don't know meaning today.

Dh said a co-worker told him he would receive an informational packet, so we'll see what's in there once he officially notifies HR. Hopefully, the roll over process is laid out in detail.

The "in kind" has to do with getting real shares of the company's stock as opposed to a fund. I think. I just know that when we do this, we should get xx shares of his company stock and the rest we can invest in whatever.