Join Early Retirement Today
Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
Old 04-17-2016, 04:56 AM   #21
Administrator
MichaelB's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: Chicagoland
Posts: 40,581
Quote:
Originally Posted by dixonge View Post
The *real* point of comparison is to ask if the results would have been significantly different when boomers were in that same age bracket? I suspect not...
I agree with this.
MichaelB is online now   Reply With Quote
Join the #1 Early Retirement and Financial Independence Forum Today - It's Totally Free!

Are you planning to be financially independent as early as possible so you can live life on your own terms? Discuss successful investing strategies, asset allocation models, tax strategies and other related topics in our online forum community. Our members range from young folks just starting their journey to financial independence, military retirees and even multimillionaires. No matter where you fit in you'll find that Early-Retirement.org is a great community to join. Best of all it's totally FREE!

You are currently viewing our boards as a guest so you have limited access to our community. Please take the time to register and you will gain a lot of great new features including; the ability to participate in discussions, network with our members, see fewer ads, upload photographs, create a retirement blog, send private messages and so much, much more!

Old 04-17-2016, 05:37 AM   #22
Thinks s/he gets paid by the post
 
Join Date: May 2014
Posts: 1,867
There is a bigger concern here as
1. Tradition pension are nearly extinct in the private sector
2. Firm contributions to retirement accounts have dropped significantly..

Hence if the younger generation is to have any chance at a well funded retirement they will have to save early and save more.


Sent from my iPad using Early Retirement Forum
rayinpenn is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-17-2016, 06:13 AM   #23
Thinks s/he gets paid by the post
bUU's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2012
Location: Georgia
Posts: 2,240
Quote:
Originally Posted by dixonge View Post
The *real* point of comparison is to ask if the results would have been significantly different when boomers were in that same age bracket? I suspect not...
Hard to say, but the marked differences between boomers and millennials surely would have had some impact.

Quote:
Originally Posted by rayinpenn View Post
Hence if the younger generation is to have any chance at a well funded retirement they will have to save early and save more.
Yet they have less of a choice about incurring significant debt at the start in order to remain competitive for jobs that pay enough to pay their own way and secure their own future. It's a Catch-22.
bUU is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-17-2016, 06:41 AM   #24
Gone but not forgotten
imoldernu's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2012
Location: Peru
Posts: 6,335
Actual numbers for income by age, is hard to come by, and of course reasons for the disparity are subject to interpretation. That said, a look back at historical household income may shed some light on the subject. (individual median income by age is not easily found in government statistics)

This website gives an overview of statistics according to simple criteria from several different aspects, and in some simple comparison charts.
Median Household Incomes by Age Bracket: 1967-2014 - dshort - Advisor Perspectives

Below is one chart that shows some interesting statistics for "old men"...

As an interesting aside, looking at the comparable assets/debt for a college graduate from my era (circa 1958) vs. a current graduate from the same school. Annual college costs for me was $1400. Using the CPI, this would put today's cost at $11,500. The actual cost for 2016 is $65,000. Just food for thought.
Attached Images
File Type: gif household-income-by-age-bracket-median-real-growth.gif (73.6 KB, 51 views)
imoldernu is offline   Reply With Quote
"Old White Men?" That's me,I guess
Old 04-17-2016, 06:48 AM   #25
Thinks s/he gets paid by the post
 
Join Date: May 2014
Posts: 1,867
"Old White Men?" That's me,I guess

Quote:
Originally Posted by bUU View Post
Yet they have less of a choice about incurring significant debt at the start in order to remain competitive for jobs that pay enough to pay their own way and secure their own future. It's a Catch-22.

I'm not sure I agree 100% ...
A young guy comes into my office an intern... We get to chatting ..he tells me when he gets his well known university degree (think basketball giant) he will owe $200 grand. I thought to myself my god man what have you done to yourself?

My daughters total cost for 4 years at another well known university will be under $100k. (I was able to fund it so no debt.) Had she stayed home and attended the local university (15 minute drive away) the total cost for for years would be roughly $50k.

Had she started at the local community college we could probably knock it down a few thousand. Throw in a part time job... That's how I did it.

My point being college expense and resulting debt is quite a bit about choices. No one needs to spend $65k a year, they choose to.



Sent from my iPad using Early Retirement Forum
rayinpenn is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-17-2016, 07:11 AM   #26
Thinks s/he gets paid by the post
bUU's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2012
Location: Georgia
Posts: 2,240
It is easy to say to do things differently, but the very same could have been said about we were in college. So in an apples-to-apples comparison, there is no way to talk around the fact that students are graduating with twice as much debt as twenty years ago, and probably three or four times as much debt as those of us here had, on average.

By the way, part-time jobs aren't the same as when I was in college. I typically had my pick. There were many more opportunities, especially as I got closer to graduation. Now, my niece is competing for such opportunities with people who need those jobs to feed and clothe their children, and perhaps have been doing that job for years, given the dearth of other opportunities, so why should they consider a transient... a college student looking to move onto a real job in a year or two?

My niece is moving in with us in several months, after she finishes her senior year in college, and is looking forward to the few babysitter jobs that my spouse has lined up for her. It's a very scary time to be entering the workforce.
bUU is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-17-2016, 07:26 AM   #27
Recycles dryer sheets
 
Join Date: Dec 2013
Posts: 174
I have a neighbor who will never invest in the stock market. All his 401k money is in a Target fund

I suspect he is not the only one who is confused by stocks versus equities versus mutual funds versus index funds.
btdt22 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-17-2016, 07:34 AM   #28
gone traveling
 
Join Date: Sep 2003
Location: DFW
Posts: 7,586
Quote:
Originally Posted by rayinpenn View Post
There is a bigger concern here as
1. Tradition pension are nearly extinct in the private sector
2. Firm contributions to retirement accounts have dropped significantly..

Hence if the younger generation is to have any chance at a well funded retirement they will have to save early and save more.


Sent from my iPad using Early Retirement Forum
I would add one other concern: career advancement and salaries have stagnated since the great recession, due to lack of jobs and very low inflation, and compared to the opportunities that baby boomers had, its a totally different world today for many college grads.
eytonxav is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-17-2016, 07:39 AM   #29
Give me a museum and I'll fill it. (Picasso)
Give me a forum ...
target2019's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2008
Location: On a hill in the Pine Barrens
Posts: 9,682
The article in the OP is fluff. A blog writer does this for sensationalism, and clicks.

This pdf - Understanding Human Capital - complements imoldernu's graph. It is for the individual to decide whether a Masters from Duke will pay off or not.

I have a nephew who lives in the land of startups and VC. He has done very well, even with college debt. It's not something I strove for, but he provides very well for his family.

https://corporate.morningstar.com/us...lFactSheet.pdf
target2019 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-17-2016, 08:02 AM   #30
Give me a museum and I'll fill it. (Picasso)
Give me a forum ...
travelover's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2007
Posts: 14,328
Quote:
Originally Posted by btdt22 View Post
I have a neighbor who will never invest in the stock market. All his 401k money is in a Target fund

I suspect he is not the only one who is confused by stocks versus equities versus mutual funds versus index funds.
I suspect you are right, because depending on the year targeted for retirement, most target funds do contain significant stock holdings.
travelover is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-17-2016, 08:19 AM   #31
Recycles dryer sheets
 
Join Date: Feb 2015
Location: Southfield
Posts: 58
A few years ago we had convinced my son, then late 20's that he should open an IRA. Unfortunately when he went to his bank to do so, the financial "advisor" told him not to do so - he should finish paying off college debt (he was already close, so payments were bringing down principal at a good rate), and save for a new car and a new house first.

It was several years later that I learned he felt the banker wouldn't "let him" open an IRA, and didn't seek more advice on where and how to do so. He turned 30 last year and does now have one, but if these kids are being told not to invest, its easy to see how they can be confused.
__________________
The best way to predict the future is to invent it. - Alan Kay
fishndad42 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-17-2016, 08:33 AM   #32
Recycles dryer sheets
 
Join Date: Feb 2015
Location: Southfield
Posts: 58
Quote:
Originally Posted by rayinpenn View Post
I'm not sure I agree 100% ...
A young guy comes into my office an intern... We get to chatting ..he tells me when he gets his well known university degree (think basketball giant) he will owe $200 grand. I thought to myself my god man what have you done to yourself?

My daughters total cost for 4 years at another well known university will be under $100k. (I was able to fund it so no debt.) Had she stayed home and attended the local university (15 minute drive away) the total cost for for years would be roughly $50k.

Had she started at the local community college we could probably knock it down a few thousand. Throw in a part time job... That's how I did it.

My point being college expense and resulting debt is quite a bit about choices. No one needs to spend $65k a year, they choose to.
This may depend on what career the student is most interested in, and the type of company they hope to work for. Our MegaCorp only recruits from a couple dozen universities. All others can apply through the black hole of the careers website and then find an actual job elsewhere. I suspect this is true across a variety of careers, otherwise the whole allure of ivy league schools or the MIT's of the world wouldn't make a difference. Even in Silicon Valley you are much more likely to land a job at an interesting startup if you came from Stanford compared to the community college.

Financially you may have a point. While a $200K degree may land you in a more prestigious company, unless you got a free ride, that additional 100K plus student loan interest may not be overcome in a typical career.
__________________
The best way to predict the future is to invent it. - Alan Kay
fishndad42 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-17-2016, 09:48 AM   #33
Thinks s/he gets paid by the post
 
Join Date: Dec 2009
Location: Alberta/Ontario/ Arizona
Posts: 3,393
I agree that young people today are probably no worse at investing than we were. Heck, I didn't buy an equity until my late 30's and didn't really start investing until my late 40's. My parents weren't of any help as they certainly didn't understand any of this stuff either. Having said that I think young people have a tougher time getting established in their careers and generating excess cash flow for investing.

My solution for my daughter (aged32) is to help her financially get established, pay for her education, and gift her enough to get started with an investment portfolio. I feel sorry for kids who graduate with significant student debt. I have a very lucky daughter indeed.
Danmar is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-17-2016, 01:46 PM   #34
Give me a museum and I'll fill it. (Picasso)
Give me a forum ...
mickeyd's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2004
Location: South Texas~29N/98W Just West of Woman Hollering Creek
Posts: 6,671
Quote:
Originally Posted by rayinpenn View Post
save early and save more.


Sent from my iPad using Early Retirement Forum
Sounds exactly like my early plan. It worked well.
__________________
Part-Owner of Texas

Outside of a dog, a book is man's best friend. Inside of a dog, it's too dark to read. Groucho Marx

In dire need of: faster horses, younger woman, older whiskey, more money.
mickeyd is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-17-2016, 01:53 PM   #35
Thinks s/he gets paid by the post
bUU's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2012
Location: Georgia
Posts: 2,240
Quote:
Originally Posted by btdt22 View Post
I have a neighbor who will never invest in the stock market. All his 401k money is in a Target fund
All Target Date Funds I've seen have at least some, and in many cases, quite a bit of, assets in the stock market. For passive investors, Target Date Funds are a relatively safe, often inexpensive, and prudent way to save for retirement.
bUU is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-17-2016, 03:39 PM   #36
Give me a museum and I'll fill it. (Picasso)
Give me a forum ...
Amethyst's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2008
Posts: 12,596
"millennial women, defined as those between the ages of 18 and 34, don’t understand investing. More than three-quarters of the women surveyed, 76 percent, found investing confusing.
Millennials in general are not investing in equities, according to Stash. Seventy-nine percent of the survey’s respondents said they are not currently investing in the stock market,"

Meh. I didn't buy my first "equity" until my late 30's; and Mr. A. who is much older than I am, was learning right along with me. We made all sorts of investing mistakes.

Amethyst
__________________
If you understood everything I say, you'd be me ~ Miles Davis
'There is only one success – to be able to spend your life in your own way.’ Christopher Morley.
Even a blind clock finds an acorn twice a day.
Amethyst is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-17-2016, 03:49 PM   #37
Administrator
Gumby's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2006
Posts: 22,971
Pretty much everything I know in life is only because I screwed it up at least once before.
__________________
Living an analog life in the Digital Age.
Gumby is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-17-2016, 04:21 PM   #38
Administrator
MichaelB's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: Chicagoland
Posts: 40,581
Quote:
Originally Posted by Gumby View Post
Pretty much everything I know in life is only because I screwed it up at least once before.
Pretty good title for a book.
MichaelB is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 04-17-2016, 06:02 PM   #39
Give me a museum and I'll fill it. (Picasso)
Give me a forum ...
ls99's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2008
Posts: 6,499
In my mid twenties I knew nothing about investing.

When my employer terminated defined benefits program, converted to defined contributions, a nice lady Phd from Marine Biology lab and another from Geochemistry, who had lunch next to me at the long table in the cafeteria mentioned that the offering of TIAA CREF was a good thing and putting money in there would be relatively safe. So I did. They were right. If I ever meet them again I'll offer my thanks.

I learned about investing in college which I started around age 35, in economics, business finance and Federal Taxation courses.
__________________
There must be moderation in everything, including moderation.
ls99 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-17-2016, 06:25 PM   #40
Recycles dryer sheets
 
Join Date: Jun 2014
Posts: 440
Eh
I'm a "gen Xer" and the same stuff was around then.

Most of my friends in the late 90s were either not saving or investing in tech stocks (oops). After the 2000 crash many swore they'd never go in the market again (oops).

None of that is different today.

College IS different. My tuition was around 6K/year (1993-1997). Lived at home. Decent state school.

When I run the numbers today I'd probably NOT go to college and instead try to learn as much as I could from the massive number of online learning (I'm a computer programmer) and then try to build up work on freelance sites and personal projects. I think in tech a degree is not as critical as it used to be compared to proving you can do stuff. Unfortunately I think "degrees" are the "everyone should own a home" idea all over again.

As for financial advice I agree with you guys. I didn't get it from my parents when I went looking for professionals they made what was simple very complex in order to get their cut.

It took me many years to realize it's actually very simple... although the behavioral side takes a lot of effort to get going.

Sent from my HTC One_M8 using Early Retirement Forum mobile app
petershk is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply


Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
 
Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Death rates among 45-54 year old white Americans with only high school increases haha Health and Early Retirement 21 11-04-2015 06:38 PM
"I Guess 2010 Is going to be a GOOD YEAR!!!!!!!!!!" Nords Other topics 23 01-12-2010 04:10 PM
Obama on grandmother "...she is a typical white person..." dex Other topics 49 03-27-2008 11:29 AM

» Quick Links

 
All times are GMT -6. The time now is 04:52 AM.
 
Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.8 Beta 1
Copyright ©2000 - 2024, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.