One Less Year

[Luck_Club]

The plan was to ease into FIRE with wife stopping in June of 2019. Her work BS bucket is full, so we are now looking to move it up a year. I've basically decided I emotionally can't give up the big checks that arrive monthly. So I will continue on until they take my cell phone from my cold dead hands.

My work load is pretty light, and the only stress is self induced, and fear of contract termination. Two days into the work week has about 3 hours of active work. The rest of the time is sitting by the e-mail waiting to respond. I would like to be busier, but the times are changing. The last warm call I made almost got a guy fired.

I'm really torn. Given the work load mentioned above and a bit over $15K a month it's hard to walk away, even when the investments are 3X expenses. Given the economy is heating up I could be growing the revenue side by bringing on more companies right now, but I have no motivation to do so.

So I'm torn between:

1) Sell my lines to another rep for 1/2 the revenue stream over 2-3 years.
2) Milk my lines until they go pop, which no matter how good or bad I am they will. It's just how the business works.
3) Just walk away from a great cash flow.

The next 2-3 years should be easy to maintain if I keep international travel to Europe and under 3 weeks. Pushing it beyond that and it will be tough to maintain.

 

[MBAustin]

If you have run the numbers through multiple calculators and are happy with the results, it seems to me that #2 is off the table and you can pick between #1 and #3.

Very important is that you and DW are in agreement about what FIRE looks like in terms of spending $$ and spending time (together and separately).

 

[AS2019]

I’m in a similar situation of having a well paying job that I just don’t enjoy and also being on the cusp of having enough savings to RE. I could RE today but money would be tighter than I want it to be. So my decision is to just keep trudging along for 1-4 more years so that I can build up the nest egg to a point where I’ll have a much larger room for error regarding projected retirement spending. Good luck with your decision.

 

[CardsFan]

I have known several sales reps over the years, and the most difficult decision they have is how to retire and extract value from the business, since the rep business is centered around the relationship. The most successful ones were able to pass the business to the next generation, collecting a percentage off the top for being available to visit some of the long time clients once in a while.

There are a couple that have successfully done your #1, though I don't know exactly how much they got.

On the other side, I had a neighbor who passed away suddenly. His wife was amazed that there was little interest in someone buying the business, without him to be there to hand off the clients to the new owners.

If you try #2, be prepared for the "pop" to happen faster than you might like. Once your principles have figured out you are just mailing it in, they will dump you faster than a hot potato.

 

[Mdlerth]

If OMY is good, then TMY must be better?

It's still months away, but I figure that as my target exit date nears, my nervousness about pulling the trigger will increase dramatically.

Multiple calculators say I'm good to go. DW is on board. My computed Punch Out Day reflects not so much the earliest possible exit as much as one specific optimized exit based on a bunch of factors. But that's the wrinkle, isn't it? There could be other optimized exit dates, depending on how I weight all those factors.

When I get very close to that fateful day, I know that stray thoughts will enter. I will question my earlier reasoning, re-run all my calculations time and again, and endure a hefty load of self-inflicted worry.

A lifetime of data demonstrate that my first reflex is to make the Safe Choice. Padding the stash with OMY would be another Safe Choice. However, it's not clear that the Safe Choice was always the Best Choice.

An influential 20th century author named Joseph Campbell wrote "Follow your bliss". My bliss isn't found at w*rk; if it were, they wouldn't have to pay me to do it.

 

[Luck_Club]

I have known several sales reps over the years, and the most difficult decision they have is how to retire and extract value from the business, since the rep business is centered around the relationship. The most successful ones were able to pass the business to the next generation, collecting a percentage off the top for being available to visit some of the long time clients once in a while.

There are a couple that have successfully done your #1, though I don't know exactly how much they got.

If you try #2, be prepared for the "pop" to happen faster than you might like. Once your principles have figured out you are just mailing it in, they will dump you faster than a hot potato.

Thanks for the feedback.

Extracting value from the business is very difficult. A few years ago I asked around some of the older reps, and most in there 60's didn't want to sell. Then came across one who said two years earlier he would have done something, but just folded the doors instead.

The pop can happen for any reason in this business. So though I would still do my best to make it work, like every time in the past it will happen when I least expect it and for reasons that are never disclosed.

 

[pb4uski]

I think #1 makes the most sense... you want out and to get on with what you want to do... 1/2 a loaf is better than zero in #3. #2 is just prolonging your misery... and arguably making it worse as business bleeds off and your 15 hours a week decays to 0 hours a week.

FWIW, I walked away from similar income but with more effort for a few reasons... I had enough money and continuing to work was effectively just making the state and federal governments richer and my kids inheritance greater but my time was more valuable.

P.S. I hope that in the OP that you mean investments are 30X expenses and not 3X expenses... if it is really 3X expenses, then ignore all of the above and get to work.

 

[Texas Proud]

I voted #2.... I would figure out a way to not just sit around... have mail sent to a tablet or I-Pad somewhere else... come in late, leaver early, take a long lunch....

Heck, I surf the net off and on now, I can do that somewhere else and get paid for it...


Now, if you are shackled to the desk for 40+ hours a week and there is NO way to reduce that, I would then go to #1.... but then you have to find someone willing to pay you for the list... all they have to do is wait for you to leave and pick up the pieced they can...

 

[ivinsfan]

Are you going to make your decision based on this poll?

I do remember your thread about where your son should go to college and you are the kind of guy that makes up his own mind and then is pretty set it's the way to go.

What does it matter what other would do? I think you'll wake up one day and decide what to do when you are good and ready. You talk about stopping in June of 19 and then a few sentences later going on for another 2 or 3 years.

 

[CaliKid]

I am doing similar to #1 with my clients though I can't just sell and walk away due to the nature of the business. I am making much less money on each deal but working less too as I have much less responsibility. Hopefully work a little less each year and have my income glide me into retirement. We shall see....

 

[Luck_Club]

Are you going to make your decision based on this poll?

I do remember your thread about where your son should go to college and you are the kind of guy that makes up his own mind and then is pretty set it's the way to go.

What does it matter what other would do? I think you'll wake up one day and decide what to do when you are good and ready. You talk about stopping in June of 19 and then a few sentences later going on for another 2 or 3 years.

I'm curious what others think. I've always second guessed and obsessed over a decision. Even after the decision has been made.

FWIW, my son has accepted the GMIT option. I still am second guessing myself, but putting things in place for it to go smoothly next fall. Because I know it is a good choice for him and plays to his strengths.

Example of those strengths is below.
He showed a rare teenage smile the other day when he returned from his internship. They had the interns him and several others build a bridge out of straws and playing cards. They assigned a dollar value to each unit, and gave them the objective that it had to hold 5 pounds. Only two worked, and his held twice the weight and was half the cost of the other student who made it. He was beaming because they were all AP kids, and he was the only non-AP student who got the internship.

Proud parent tried to explain that he will excel, if he plays to his strengths. He then went on to down play the win as he had done it before, and the AP kids hadn't. Just can't win.

 

[ivinsfan]

I'm curious what others think. I've always second guessed and obsessed over a decision. Even after the decision has been made.

FWIW, my son has accepted the GMIT option. I still am second guessing myself, but putting things in place for it to go smoothly next fall. Because I know it is a good choice for him and plays to his strengths.

Example of those strengths is below.
He showed a rare teenage smile the other day when he returned from his internship. They had the interns him and several others build a bridge out of straws and playing cards. They assigned a dollar value to each unit, and gave them the objective that it had to hold 5 pounds. Only two worked, and his held twice the weight and was half the cost of the other student who made it. He was beaming because they were all AP kids, and he was the only non-AP student who got the internship.

Proud parent tried to explain that he will excel, if he plays to his strengths. He then went on to down play the win as he had done it before, and the AP kids hadn't. Just can't win.

That's good but I still think you are a guy who likes to make his own decisions and it's really bothered or influenced by what others think.

It's kind of natural to second things.

 

[Luck_Club]

That's good but I still think you are a guy who likes to make his own decisions and it's really bothered or influenced by what others think.

It's kind of natural to second things.

You are a 100% correct. I do however value and seek input before and after making a decision. From random sources, books mostly, but often random people I interacted with during the day.

I'm leaning towards #1 anyways, if I can make it happen. #3 is really hard to swallow.

 

[Luck_Club]

I think #1 makes the most sense... you want out and to get on with what you want to do... 1/2 a loaf is better than zero in #3. #2 is just prolonging your misery... and arguably making it worse as business bleeds off and your 15 hours a week decays to 0 hours a week.

FWIW, I walked away from similar income but with more effort for a few reasons... I had enough money and continuing to work was effectively just making the state and federal governments richer and my kids inheritance greater but my time was more valuable.

P.S. I hope that in the OP that you mean investments are 30X expenses and not 3X expenses... if it is really 3X expenses, then ignore all of the above and get to work.

I meant 2-3X the passive income over expenses.

 

[CardsFan]

Thanks for the feedback.

Extracting value from the business is very difficult. A few years ago I asked around some of the older reps, and most in there 60's didn't want to sell. Then came across one who said two years earlier he would have done something, but just folded the doors instead.

The other benefits of selling for a percentage of future earnings (even if less than you think the business is worth) are to make sure your clients have a reliable transition that does not impact their businesses, and to maybe help a younger go-getter get started in the path to FIRE.

No, it doesn't increase the amount you will get, but for some there would be a level of inner satisfaction that you went out with dignity and class.

 

[brucethebroker]

If you try #2, be prepared for the "pop" to happen faster than you might like. Once your principles have figured out you are just mailing it in, they will dump you faster than a hot potato.

Milk it-#2.
That is basically what I did with my former practice.
The key from what you stated was to be able to travel (even internationally for 2-3 weeks). If you were going to be a slave to the phone/email for 4 hrs. a day, with no flexibility to travel, etc., that is a totally different scenario.

I have a friend who runs his very part time (milking it...) business, even when he snowbirds. He just hops on a plane if there is a critical item to be handled, and flys back home for a couple of days. Lots of ways to keep the thing moving along if you think outside the box.

 

[Luck_Club]

The other benefits of selling for a percentage of future earnings (even if less than you think the business is worth) are to make sure your clients have a reliable transition that does not impact their businesses, and to maybe help a younger go-getter get started in the path to FIRE.

No, it doesn't increase the amount you will get, but for some there would be a level of inner satisfaction that you went out with dignity and class.

I like that idea.

 

[Luck_Club]

Milk it-#2.
That is basically what I did with my former practice.
The key from what you stated was to be able to travel (even internationally for 2-3 weeks). If you were going to be a slave to the phone/email for 4 hrs. a day, with no flexibility to travel, etc., that is a totally different scenario.

I have a friend who runs his very part time (milking it...) business, even when he snowbirds. He just hops on a plane if there is a critical item to be handled, and flys back home for a couple of days. Lots of ways to keep the thing moving along if you think outside the box.

There in lies the dilemma.

It would be easy to run it for years with minimal impact on the rest of my life. It is more than the rental time commitment, but certainly less than a 50-60 hour grinder with loads of travel, etc.

I realized after a recent trip to 1 account that requires a quarterly visit, that I had only been on 1 other in person visit since the last time I had been to the account. Meanwhile I deposited close to $60K in the meantime. Meanwhile I scour the market looking for a safe 5% yield.

The funniest thing about the trip, is when I returned I wrote a nice trip report about a second visit I had made, and how we could grow the business with the customer if we wanted to, please advise how you want to proceed I asked. Still waiting for an answer.

 

[RenoJay]

I’m in a similar situation. Though I’m personally fine to milk my network, I find that hearing my colleagues constantly boasting about their “big kills” kinda gets in my head and makes me feel crappy. Thinking about just pulling the plug.

 

[97guns]

I'm really torn. Given the work load mentioned above and a bit over $15K a month it's hard to walk away, even when the investments are 3X expenses. Given the economy is heating up I could be growing the revenue side by bringing on more companies right now, but I have no motivation to do so.

So I'm torn between:

1) Sell my lines to another rep for 1/2 the revenue stream over 2-3 years.
2) Milk my lines until they go pop, which no matter how good or bad I am they will. It's just how the business works.
3) Just walk away from a great cash flow..

One things for certain... you can’t buy more time + the fact that we have no idea when our time is up made getting out of the workforce a really easy decision for me.

 

[njhowie]

The funniest thing about the trip, is when I returned I wrote a nice trip report about a second visit I had made, and how we could grow the business with the customer if we wanted to, please advise how you want to proceed I asked. Still waiting for an answer.

So when I started reading, I had #1 in mind. As I came across this last bit, it solidified my thinking on #1.

Though it sounds like you've already decided on #2, I will make my pitch for #1.

I think you already realize that your heart/drive really isn't in it any longer. That last sentence really says it all - is the company even listening to you? Two days in to the week and only 3 hours of real work. I am all for a great paycheck, but if you are just biding your time and not accomplishing anything, how is that for your mental well-being? Now, I've seen some real losers do that for real - waste their time and accomplish nothing...because that's all they were capable of. High performers are not like that - I believe that they are internally incapable of doing that over any extended period...because they are high performers - they need to be doing something of substance that will bring them satisfaction.

#1 offers a way to at least monetize some of it without walking away and getting nothing in return.

During my prime, I enjoyed my work so much that the time would fly by - even when I was working 12-18 hour days week after week. I'd go in on Monday, and before I realized it, it was the weekend. After a few years, and changes in the business evolved, the satisfaction I got out of it was in decline. The days grew long, and similarly, I'd find myself at my desk looking for ways to make the time go by. The writing was on the wall - and in my head I knew it. I was able to keep it up for another 6 months or so, and then decided it was enough...retirement found it's way to me. Completely unplanned, and as it turns out, probably the best thing that could have happened.

Take a step back, and try to think objectively. By the sound of it, you have enough money to get by comfortably, and really the only reason you're staying is to collect a generous paycheck for biding your time.

Is there anything else that you might see yourself doing? Possibly starting your own business? Taking on a part-time position doing something different that you really enjoy? There might be a second act out there just waiting for you.

Just keep in mind - time is the one thing you can't get more of...so don't waste it.

Just my view. Good luck with the decision.

 

[Spanky]

#1 seems optimal - very little work while still collecting possible "good" income.