Out of pocket college costs?

[jIMOh]

I am 35 yo, with a degree in Mechanical Engineering from a top 10 ME program (according to my school anyway). Kettering U (formerly GMI). I am not sure if you are looking for tuition numbers, other costs (board, food, beer) or how to make money in college.

My expenses looked like this in college:

Tuition ran about 10k in year 1 and I was paying about 15k in year 5. I think tuition now runs in the 25k for same program. Total 5 year bill is 120k on web site, I think, for current students. My bill was 60k of debt (10 years ago) for 7 years of school (year 5-6 was 75% co-op, year 7 was 9 months long, all on co-op too). My last semester and failing one class cost me a fortune (8k in debt, plus lost wages for 21 months of full time work).

Room and board was included in 10k for year 1, I think. Because all freshman lived on campus in dorms. In years 2-5 I lived off campus at Fiji house. That bill was around $1500/semester- that bill is the same now because the fraternity costs are fixed (house is paid for) more or less. Year 1 might have been $1300 and year 5 might have been $1500. The change in payment was probably do more to lower enrollment (the senior class ahead of me had 10 members). Alumni donations do subsidize this.

I had a workstudy job I worked at $5/hour during semesters (12 weeks long) and that got me enough for weekend food (maybe $60 every two weeks). Fiji had lunch and dinner covered 5 days per week, and I would bring enough oatmeal or similar for breakfast food when semester started. Our steward also bought minimal breakfast food for those of us up early enough to eat breakfast.

My parents paid for books which was around $400/semester. Some semesters I sold them back, some books I still have. First few years on the job the drafting book came in handy.

The kicker for me was GMI required co-oping, and that paid me money. My highest expenses were during co-op terms to keep car running and pay rent and food. I made on average 15k per year co-oping, so if I could have kept finances on work term to a minimum (I didn't), tuition would have been zero. In addition my first job out of school was secured well before I graduated (I earned a full time wage 9 months before graduating).

I did manage to save enough each co-op to pay house bill in full.

Our school had plenty of programs for social (something every weekend). If Freshman were not local, the school could entertain a little bit. In my case the house bill for fraternity covered most social costs. My freshman and sophomore year that funded a party we would throw, and we also attended the parties other houses threw- so basically one house on Friday, another house on Saturday, different house the next Friday, different one the next Saturday, then maybe ours was the 3rd Friday or something. I don't think that is allowed anymore.

HTH

 

[Art G]

jIM, What are your thoughts on Co-op'ing? My daughters school highly recommends it for their engineering students. Would you say it was worthwhile, or in retrospect, would it have been better to get out of school faster?
Also, what's your outlook for the future of mechanical engineers? In your opinion, do you think a college freshmen will have any problem finding work in the field in four or five years, or is the market getting saturated ala computer programmers?

 

[Sue J]

I shared the same view. However, we believed that it was our obligation to finance, completely, the reasonable cost of attendance, which didn't necessarily mean the cost of attendance at a highly selective private school.

Yes, same with us. Luckily, both sons chose public colleges, so it worked out.

For son #1 tuition plus room and board was about $13,000 the first year and by the 4th year was more like $16,000. For son #2 the tuition has been $8300 for a full year. Even with his on campus food costs, books and car expenses, it's still much less than if he lived on campus.

My husband and I both felt that living away at college was a good portion of the experience and we encouraged him to live on campus. He tried it his first year and could not tolerate the assinine, juvenile behavior of the drunks and druggies. He is not a drinker or drugger and he hated living in that environment. So he transferred to another state university that's close enough so that he could commute.

 

[region2]

I am simply amazed at how many college students reported here live on-campus in dorms. It seems like most kids here are engineer types (like their parents)

I am just finishing paying most college costs for my 2 sons. One lived in St. Paul and the other Seattle. DS#1 spent 2 years in dorms (mandatory); DS#2 spent 1 year in dorm. They both have liberal arts degrees (aka pre-Starbucks barista degrees).

On average, they have spent about $1,000.00 per month on all living expenses (rent, food, utilities, clothes) - and neither were BIG partiers. This did not include travel costs to and from our home. Neither kid had a car on campus either.

 

[RunningBum]

Just curious what the comment about kids living in dorms means. Are you surprised they lived in dorms as long as they did, or that they didn't live there so long? I'm wondering what to expect out of my daughter. Most of the schools she is looking at require at least the first year in a dorm. Not sure what she'll do after that. I doubt she is either.

 

[Marquette]

Granted, this was 10-15 years ago.... in-state public school, costs were ~$2,500 a semester for classes + books. Lived off-campus at home.

They started a flat-rate tuition the semester after I left. My wife, a fellow alum, used a combination of correspondence courses and other tricks to load up on 32 credit hours her last semester (the cap was supposed to be 24).

She lived on-campus for, I think, another $3,000 a semester.

 

[TromboneAl]

It's hard to estimate, since you don't know how much financial aid you'll get.

​

 

[jazz4cash]

Running Bum
I wondered what the on-campus comment meant also, but Im thinking if its a reference to it being cheaper to live off campus, I generally agree but depends greatly on the kid, the school, and the local housing market. All the students we know were very highly motivated to live on-campus as part of the college experience, but living in a dorm wears thin after a year or two. Many schools do not have adequate housing for all students and usually give priority to underclassmen. When looking at off-campus housing young men generally are not as picky about thier housing as young women. I think most of the schools we looked at required on-campus first year unless you lived in a very nearby zip code. Another big variable is quality of the food on-campus. We had to buy a meal plan, but I honestly believe DD lives on cold cereal and most of the meal expense is waste. Some the meal plans are outrageously priced. Anyway same answer as always.....'it depends and varies widely from one situation to another".

 

[region2]

Just my experience, but I think living on-campus in dorms is more expensive, and students have less control over their experiences (roommates, cafeteria food, etc.) But, on the other hand living off campus has its hassles too (subletting, utility payments, etc.)

Plus many large universities now have security staff (even campus police) that wander dorm halls and hand out underage drinking violations to students. (I am not stating if I think this is good or bad). Under age minors violations can certainly add to the cost of college (and of course this can happen if the student lives off campus as well)

 

[Marquette]

I just checked... for an in-state student living on campus they would pay $14,000 a year. A little over $7k for room + board. A little under for tuition. Plus another $600/yr in books.

An in-state student with a GPA of 3.5 or above and ACT /SAT of 33/1460 can expect at least $3,500 in merit scholarships a year.

edit: And, since we briefly owned a rental off-campus... most rentals around there are houses and run about $300/room/month with standard term being 12-mo lease (students often stay there over the summer if they have off-campus jobs already). so, off-campus can be much cheaper but you'd want at least 3 people you could stand sharing a house with.

 

[Sam]

beldar and sam, just curious as to your dealings with U.T.? Of all the schools my daughter applied to, no one treated us with less interest than U.T. did. They never offered a penny, and in fact, the only info we received from them was regarding housing and how we had to procure it before the deadline. We received the letter in the mail the day before the deadline!!
From everyone I've talked to they felt as if U.T. could care less about your student (especially in their freshman year) as they are more of a "publishing university" and students were merely a necessary evil.
Both my kids wanted to go there until we visited. Of course I was thrilled as I've spent my share of time on 6th Street and have to wonder how any of those kids find time to study.
Just wondering if you both were happy with the university?

Art,

I think I agree with you. UT Austin is quite indifferent in their dealings. It's very impersonal. Here are the few things I'm not quite happy with this school:

- Room and board are expensive, about 30% higher than Texas A&M. Worse, they don't guarantee availability at all. My son and I signed up for dorm at the earliest possible time. We kept calling them asking when we could have a definite yes/no answer. They kept telling us we're still on the list. Eventually we gave up, and chose a private dorm instead. Same expensive price though.

- Parking is very expensive, about $100/mth. My son ended up not taking the car with him for the first year. He is moving out to an apartment next year. Lower cost, better facility, free parking. He will have to take the shuttle bus to school though.

- I believe UT Austin is the largest (in term of student head count) university in the nation. Thus paperwork takes longer to complete. Most things are computerized, and the feedback is minimal.

- It's also the school with the reputation of having the most parties. I have several friends whose studious kids fail miserably during the first year because they succumb to this tempting environment (my son is doing ok).

Not sure I agree with you on financial aids. My son got 2 scholarships for his first year from the school, 3K total. He's aiming for another K this coming year.

I don't "hate" UT Austin, but I think I like Texas A&M a little better. My son loves UT Austin though. He make friends, he enjoy the socializing, the partying. The only thing he doesn't like (I think) is my (almost) constant checking up on him. I had too, I'm a parent ;-)

 

[Art G]

Art,

I think I agree with you. UT Austin is quite indifferent in their dealings. It's very impersonal. Here are the few things I'm not quite happy with this school:

- Room and board are expensive, about 30% higher than Texas A&M. Worse, they don't guarantee availability at all. My son and I signed up for dorm at the earliest possible time. We kept calling them asking when we could have a definite yes/no answer. They kept telling us we're still on the list. Eventually we gave up, and chose a private dorm instead. Same expensive price though.

- Parking is very expensive, about $100/mth. My son ended up not taking the car with him for the first year. He is moving out to an apartment next year. Lower cost, better facility, free parking. He will have to take the shuttle bus to school though.

- I believe UT Austin is the largest (in term of student head count) university in the nation. Thus paperwork takes longer to complete. Most things are computerized, and the feedback is minimal.

- It's also the school with the reputation of having the most parties. I have several friends whose studious kids fail miserably during the first year because they succumb to this tempting environment (my son is doing ok).

Not sure I agree with you on financial aids. My son got 2 scholarships for his first year from the school, 3K total. He's aiming for another K this coming year.

I don't "hate" UT Austin, but I think I like Texas A&M a little better. My son loves UT Austin though. He make friends, he enjoy the socializing, the partying. The only thing he doesn't like (I think) is my (almost) constant checking up on him. I had too, I'm a parent ;-)

You got money out of U.T. Congrats! What position does he play?

 

[Spanky]

Just my experience, but I think living on-campus in dorms is more expensive, and students have less control over their experiences (roommates, cafeteria food, etc.) But, on the other hand living off campus has its hassles too (subletting, utility payments, etc.)

Plus many large universities now have security staff (even campus police) that wander dorm halls and hand out underage drinking violations to students. (I am not stating if I think this is good or bad). Under age minors violations can certainly add to the cost of college (and of course this can happen if the student lives off campus as well)

Living off-campus will be slightly higher. This is based on my daughter's current finding. A one-person room on campus is cheaper (about $2000/semester), but you are required to take the meal plan which is quite expensive (about $1600 per semester). A 2-BR off-campus apartment is more expensive (about $700 per person per month or $8,400 per year). It might be cheaper if you can sublet it out for the summer months or find more people to share the rent. The total cost to live on campus is $7,200 per year (2 semesters), while the cost to live off-campus is about $9,200 per year ($8400 + 8 months of grocery @$100/month).

Even though the cost of off-campus living is higher, an apartment offers better amenities: private bathroom, living room, kitchen, appliances, etc. The big thing is that you do not have to get stuck with eating the crummy food at the university cafeteria.

 

[bongo2]

I'd be very interested to hear if people have had success getting financial aid for their children if they have low income but significant assets. There are very conficting views on this: the standard line is that "assets don't really matter," but the formulas suggest that you will be expected to pay 5% of your assets - so if you have, say, a million dollars then you are out of luck. For the federal formulas there are exclusions for retirement assets and for all assets if your income is below $50k. So, that would suggest that children of an ER could qualify for a lot of financial aid. On the other hand, some things that I have heard and read suggest that colleges actually ask about retirement accounts and will not give aid to people with significant assets even though the federal rules suggest they qualify. One financial aid officer specifically said in a book something like, "the federal formulas may give you a lot of money, but if you have a million dollars we're going to give it to someone who needs it."

 

[Sam]

You got money out of U.T. Congrats! What position does he play?

Ha ha. No, he's not on an athletic scholarship. Both were merit based.

 

[Sam]

..., while the cost to live off-campus is about $9,200 per year ($8400 + 8 months of grocery @$100/month).

Spanky, are you underestimating grocery? $100/month/person is extremely tough for even an LBYM aldult. We're are talking about college students here. I think I would be very happy if my son asks for $200/month for grocery next year (he's moving out to an apartment).

 

[region2]

Off campus vs on campus living cost redux

If I can be so bold, on campus costs are usually quite fixed, they are hard to reduce.

off-campus - costs can be reduced (eat less, bathe less, skip cable, shiver, sublet, get 6 guys to share a 2 bedroom apt, domesticate vermin)

So again, with the general frugal nature of this forum's members - I am amazed that so many progeny of the posters live on-campus.

 

[Spanky]

Spanky, are you underestimating grocery? $100/month/person is extremely tough for even an LBYM aldult. We're are talking about college students here. I think I would be very happy if my son asks for $200/month for grocery next year (he's moving out to an apartment).

Sam, you are probably right - $100 per month is pretty low. This is the number that was given by my daughter's friend who wanted to rent an apartment with her. Obviously, she wanted to make the number look good to justify moving out of the dorm. However, she may be telling the truth since she does eat out quite often.

 

[Spanky]

.. the standard line is that "assets don't really matter," but the formulas suggest that you will be expected to pay 5% of your assets - so if you have, say, a million dollars then you are out of luck.

Assets do matter except for retirement assets and primary residential home since they will be excluded from the calculation.

For the federal formulas there are exclusions for retirement assets and for all assets if your income is below $50k.

I am not sure if this is true.

 

[Spanky]

So again, with the general frugal nature of this forum's members - I am amazed that so many progeny of the posters live on-campus.

I keep telling my daughter that she should move back home since the university is only 15 miles away.

 

[beldar3]

beldar and sam, just curious as to your dealings with U.T.? Of all the schools my daughter applied to, no one treated us with less interest than U.T. did. They never offered a penny, and in fact, the only info we received from them was regarding housing and how we had to procure it before the deadline. We received the letter in the mail the day before the deadline!!
From everyone I've talked to they felt as if U.T. could care less about your student (especially in their freshman year) as they are more of a "publishing university" and students were merely a necessary evil.
Both my kids wanted to go there until we visited. Of course I was thrilled as I've spent my share of time on 6th Street and have to wonder how any of those kids find time to study.
Just wondering if you both were happy with the university?

UT was a perfect fit for my son (more on that in a moment) and they couldn't have been more helpful through the application process. In the interest of full disclosure, we live in Austin a few blocks from campus (close enough to hear the bands playing at frat parties some nights)
so we were able to visit several times and meet with admissions people and counselors.

The most effective thing we did was to meet with an undergraduate academic counselor in the school he was applying to. This guy went so far as to offer to critique my son's application essay (we took him up on that). The counselor gave tips as to which program to apply to, as the UT admission process is based on the comptetiveness of the applicant pool of the particular major you're applying for. He steered us to the exact programs with the best chance of acceptance. (The guy remained my kid's counselor for his four years there) Anyway, I'm conviced that went a long way to help my kid get in, as he was top 50% in his HS class, in other words, a real long shot.

Why perfect? Well, my kid is a sports junkie and went in as a sports management major, and became a manager of the men's basketball team for three years. Big time college sports experience: chartered jet travel, NCAA tournament appearances, several of his friends play in the NBA. Led to a great internship with the Charlotte Bobcats. Now if he could just land a job....

Finally, I'm of the opinion that making one's way around a large campus like UT is good preparation for life...the need to be assertive dealing with bureaucracies, etc. And as I said, if you seek out help and are persistent, the people there are very forthcoming. I understand, though that a place of 50,000 students isn't for everybody.

 

[jIMOh]

jIM, What are your thoughts on Co-op'ing? My daughters school highly recommends it for their engineering students. Would you say it was worthwhile, or in retrospect, would it have been better to get out of school faster?
Also, what's your outlook for the future of mechanical engineers? In your opinion, do you think a college freshmen will have any problem finding work in the field in four or five years, or is the market getting saturated ala computer programmers?

At Kettering, co-oping is NOT an option. It is a requirement. Need 5 semesters of co-op, 3 of which must be byond Junior year. I was in school for 6 years, and had 3 years of experience added up when I graduated. Co-oping- whether optional or required- is a good thing.

Here is what I learned
Xerox (91-93) did not like manufacturing
Walker (94) did not like automotive (or so I thought)
Mantech (95-96) liked acoustics, did not like the government. Being on submarines grows old after a while. Loved Washington DC too.
Ford (97). Learned not to make rash judgements, learned CAD rules.

The Ford job led directly to the software job I have now- Ford was the biggest customer of SDRC (first full time job I had) when I was hired.

My point was I learned what I did not like 3 months at a time. In some cases I stuck with it- Xerox was where my father worked, and I lived at home while co-oping, keeping costs down. Other times I moved on and rebuilt my career/ My job hopping took place when I was 18-23, not 23-28. I think this saved me much time because I found what I wanted without being committed to any place, any company, any boss.

Once I stopped living at home I learned a lot more (about life-money, spending time with friends, travel). I also learned that the boss you work for makes the job. My first job I ever lasted more than 15 months at is the one I have been working for 11+ years now- and my boss rocks.

The top co-op programs I am aware of:

1) Kettering University (Flint, MI)
2) UC (University of Cincinnati)
3) RIT (Rochester Institute of Technology)

I am sure there are many many more. If a student knows they want Engineering, then I think Kettering deserves a serious look. If Engineering is a maybe, do not do Kettering, because the choices there are all technical.

Getting out of school faster is not what I would emphasize. I would emphasize taking time when a person is 18-19-20-21 with any decision. I jumped to conclusions often at that age... learning about life and making hard decisions. I would recomend co-oping and getting at least 2 different 6 month assignments before graduating.

 

[jIMOh]

Just curious what the comment about kids living in dorms means. Are you surprised they lived in dorms as long as they did, or that they didn't live there so long? I'm wondering what to expect out of my daughter. Most of the schools she is looking at require at least the first year in a dorm. Not sure what she'll do after that. I doubt she is either.

First year in dorm appears to be the norm. My biggest suggestion would be to see what off campus housing options exist.

In my case
dorms
fraternities
rent a house with other students

There were few apartments available.

After I gratuitated, the campus built some nice upper class off campus housing across the street- central air and similar.

 

[jIMOh]

I keep telling my daughter that she should move back home since the university is only 15 miles away.

I have no kids yet (wife is pregant with twins now), but if they choose college, I will insist they live on or around campus and not at home.

More expensive, yes. But half of college is coming home late from parties and not answering to anyone every day. Part of being single, part of college.

Maybe you are the coolest parent in the world, but I would question whether a person living at home gets the "true" college experience.

I lived on campus or around campus. Wife lived at home. Our college experiences are quite different. We seem to both believe I had more fun.

 

[Marquette]

Maybe you are the coolest parent in the world, but I would question whether a person living at home gets the "true" college experience.

That's the biggest regret I have about college. I kind of wish that I lived on campus even though it was just 4 miles from home. Of course, for the first year and a half I wasn't old enough to drive and getting dropped off by your grandma just isn't as cool as it sounds. Still, I should have at least done it for the last year.