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Old 07-08-2019, 03:06 PM   #41
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I fail to see how anyone could object to this.
Sounds like a sure plan for unhappiness. I object.
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Old 07-08-2019, 03:07 PM   #42
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Originally Posted by bigcmagor View Post
Their mother? Are your parents brother and sister? Probably a good thing you skipped having kids.
What I mean is mother and mother-in-law of our parents.
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Old 07-08-2019, 03:13 PM   #43
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Well, that's a pickle. They still have their social security I suppose. So when money runs out, they won't be doing Europe and Cruise travels. So no worries .. they will still have food on the table. Anyway, at 80 yrs old, they won't be traveling often I suppose
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Old 07-08-2019, 03:14 PM   #44
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I, too, believe the root of their behavior stems from you not having children. They will most likely reduce their traveling and spending as they enter the slow go and no go years.

Since you state you’re very close my suggestion would be to have a sit down chat and discuss your concerns. Make sure they have LTC if they feel they’ll run out of money. Let them know you and your wife will be able to retire early because of your frugal lifestyle, but will not have extra money to support them if they run out. It is much easier said than done, but just as parents have had to close the purse strings on kids that keep needing financial support, you’ll be having to do the same with helping them out financially.

My other suggestion, since in your heart you know you won’t turn your back on them is to put some money aside for them for later years “just in case”. Yes, it might mean working an extra 6 months or year, but it’ll give you peace of mind.

Personally, I hope if you all sit down to discuss this that they realize how very selfish they’re being in this regard
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Old 07-08-2019, 03:21 PM   #45
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How long do they expect to live?


Obviously makes no sense. $10k/mo might or might not work for them. Their magic number has nothing to do with you.


It wouldn't be fair.

Have you expressed this feeling to them?
I agree that $10K/mo doesn't make sense, especially we live in a city with median household income of less that $80K per year and COL index just slightly over national average.
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Old 07-08-2019, 03:23 PM   #46
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Their plan actually sounds pretty good to me (not that I would do it myself).

Once they need to be in a nursing home, they have to be flat-broke to get Medicaid to pay for it. If they are sitting on a pile of cash, it will all go to the nursing home otherwise. As long as they aren't expecting to be put up at a "nice" nursing home, what is the problem?
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Old 07-08-2019, 03:33 PM   #47
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If your parents want to live that lifestyle, and as it appears, rubbing it in your nose, why should your decisions matter? Sound like you're doing the right things, except being too concerned about their future. Honor them, but don't make up for their mistakes or choices.
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Old 07-08-2019, 03:43 PM   #48
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Originally Posted by Carol1862 View Post
I, too, believe the root of their behavior stems from you not having children. They will most likely reduce their traveling and spending as they enter the slow go and no go years.

Since you state you’re very close my suggestion would be to have a sit down chat and discuss your concerns. Make sure they have LTC if they feel they’ll run out of money. Let them know you and your wife will be able to retire early because of your frugal lifestyle, but will not have extra money to support them if they run out. It is much easier said than done, but just as parents have had to close the purse strings on kids that keep needing financial support, you’ll be having to do the same with helping them out financially.

My other suggestion, since in your heart you know you won’t turn your back on them is to put some money aside for them for later years “just in case”. Yes, it might mean working an extra 6 months or year, but it’ll give you peace of mind.

Personally, I hope if you all sit down to discuss this that they realize how very selfish they’re being in this regard
I think the most difficult part of having a sit-down discussion is that they believe they are totally capable of timing their spending accurately, because they are both highly educated, and the stock market and real-estate market have been doing great so far, and their financial adviser told them so. However, since I'm myself a finance professional, I have tried to gauge how qualified their FA was a few years back. The answer I got was the FA invite them to personal meetings a couple times a year and buy them dinners. On the other hand, they had to put major expenses (tens of thousands) on credit card and carry the balance for several months. To me things like this should not happen with a good FA, but maybe they just did not listen to their FA. They also believe their FA can time the market and beat the market return by trading their investments.
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Old 07-08-2019, 03:45 PM   #49
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Seems like your parents are like that couple in the movie - That Old Feeling. They were a big headache to their kids lol

https://www.imdb.com/title/tt0120318...1?ref_=nv_sr_1
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Old 07-08-2019, 03:46 PM   #50
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Originally Posted by DINKFIRE View Post
I think the most difficult part of having a sit-down discussion is that they believe they are totally capable of timing their spending accurately, because they are both highly educated, and the stock market and real-estate market have been doing great so far, and their financial adviser told them so. However, since I'm myself a finance professional, I have tried to gauge how qualified their FA was a few years back. The answer I got was the FA invite them to personal meetings a couple times a year and buy them dinners. On the other hand, they had to put major expenses (tens of thousands) on credit card and carry the balance for several months. To me things like this should not happen with a good FA, but maybe they just did not listen to their FA. They also believe their FA can time the market and beat the market return by trading their investments.
So has their FA beat the market over a long period of time? We know how these stories usually end.
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Old 07-08-2019, 03:50 PM   #51
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Forget a long period of time... how about for the last 3 years? the last 5 years?
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Old 07-08-2019, 03:59 PM   #52
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Forget a long period of time... how about for the last 3 years? the last 5 years?
I don't know and I doubt that they know, but they said their FA was fantastic and their portfolio grew a lot since the recession. Last I heard was about half a year ago, that their FA believed the market was due for correction so he/she sold substantial of their portfolio and held in cash await to jump back in at the right moment.
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Old 07-08-2019, 04:12 PM   #53
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I'm about your age. I often told my parents long before I ever got married that I didn't want kids. Every person I ever dated I was very upfront about it with. Once my spouse and I got married, my parents were shocked, SHOCKED that we weren't going to GIVE them grand kids. They would say extremely hurtful and passive aggressive things to my spouse, to the point where we just pretty much stopped seeing them/talking to them. We might go by on Tgiving or xmas, maybe once or twice a year outside of that.

It took them 10 years before they finally realized the error of their ways and apologized to us both. Too little too late. Like others, I'm sure their comments stem from a dark place that they don't even even realize that they have in their hearts. You're bigger than I am for putting up with it.

My folks likely will need our assistance in retirement w/o substantial lifestyle changes (still working in mid/late 60's). I might throw a couple bucks at them here and there, but that will be the extent of it.
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Old 07-08-2019, 04:17 PM   #54
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It is very easy for me to understand why many couples might forgo childrearing. Same goes for marriage. Children are always a lot of work, often a lot of worries, and all too often the source of considerable unhappiness. Same goes for marriage. It is possible that marriage itself will be less and less common as time goes on.

Even now, it seems that marriage and childbearing-childrearing are mostly based on feelings, not rational thought.

I have been very fortunate with my sons, and I am grateful for this as I know that it is not automatic. It cannot be, as nothing in life is.

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Old 07-08-2019, 04:19 PM   #55
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Originally Posted by DINKFIRE View Post
I don't know and I doubt that they know, but they said their FA was fantastic and their portfolio grew a lot since the recession. Last I heard was about half a year ago, that their FA believed the market was due for correction so he/she sold substantial of their portfolio and held in cash await to jump back in at the right moment.
Guess he missed the 20% market return for 2019.....
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Old 07-08-2019, 04:21 PM   #56
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By the last period of the last sentence of the original post, I had a solution

A lot of good possibilities have been shared, but this one by pb4uski is clear, fair, and concise. I would make one little edit to it:

Quote:
Originally Posted by pb4uski View Post
.....If I were the OP I would just be clear that I understood that there will be no inheritance but at th same time that my financial plan does not include providing monetary support to the parents should they run out of money and see what happens. .......
I would make the following change:
Quote:
If I were the OP I would just be clear that I understood that there will be no inheritance but at the same time that my financial plan does not include will not support providing monetary support to the parents should they run out of money and see what happens.
The change makes clear that the $$$ will not be there at all to support them, it will not be a case of your "choosing not to support them". I think that's fair. I doubt your plan would/should support any of us here at E-R.org should we squander all our dough!
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Old 07-08-2019, 04:27 PM   #57
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I'm just trying to get my head around a mentality that says: "Oh! You've done well in life and want to retire early? Well if you do that, we're going to deliberately overspend all our money so that you don't get any! (we'll show you!!)".

What's wrong with these people? Is this some sort of jealousy? Quite twisted IMO.
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Old 07-08-2019, 04:33 PM   #58
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I'm about your age. I often told my parents long before I ever got married that I didn't want kids. Every person I ever dated I was very upfront about it with. Once my spouse and I got married, my parents were shocked, SHOCKED that we weren't going to GIVE them grand kids. They would say extremely hurtful and passive aggressive things to my spouse, to the point where we just pretty much stopped seeing them/talking to them. We might go by on Tgiving or xmas, maybe once or twice a year outside of that.

It took them 10 years before they finally realized the error of their ways and apologized to us both. Too little too late. Like others, I'm sure their comments stem from a dark place that they don't even even realize that they have in their hearts. You're bigger than I am for putting up with it.

My folks likely will need our assistance in retirement w/o substantial lifestyle changes (still working in mid/late 60's). I might throw a couple bucks at them here and there, but that will be the extent of it.
Thank you for the encouraging words and I'm sorry that you have to go through all that.

[...Mod Edit ...]Even though [Mod Edit...our parents...] never said they are OK with our decision, they don't pest us openly either. They would say so-and-so just had a baby and he/she was a darling. We basically just stop talking about this topic with them and ignore their hints.
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Old 07-08-2019, 04:36 PM   #59
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At most, if the OP feels obligated to care for his parents in say, 20 years, he could plan for a cottage/extra bedroom, or nice rental apartment in his expenses for those future years. If the parents have a safe clean place to live that's taken care of, then SS + MC should reasonably cover their other expenses. Not a 10k per month lifestyle, but that would be ridiculous.

It would be more than most of us expect to do, but OP perhaps enough for you to remove the wild card from your expenses? Could you add on an in-law suite in your home (if you'd even want to)?

I think I'm with most of the forum members here, going off the little info from your posts: If your parents are, A) ridiculing your ER plans, B) flaunting their spending and their expectation of running out, and C) remotely implying that it will one day be your problem... then I don't think you have quite the relationship that I'd want to even save.

I realize different cultures and upbringings work differently, but my parents are the kind that applauded my efforts to ER, that don't throw money away but I have to encourage them to spend (they still fly coach for international trips, I'm begging them to go business - their response is maybe premium economy next time...), and they'd be horrified to become a burden to us. And we're dinks too, and there's never been a hint that they didn't support that decision.

Best of luck to you, but this is one of those cake-and-eat-it-too things. If you don't want to disrupt the relationship and firmly believe it is a child's responsibility to support his parents no matter what, then I guess you don't get to retire?
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Old 07-08-2019, 04:38 PM   #60
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Mom/ Dad while we love you very much we don't agree with your financial decisions and in fact believe that you are spending too much money and jeopardizing your future.

That being said, as you are choosing not to heed our advise, you should understand that we will also make out own decisions. We will not be working to fund your retirement and since we have more modest tastes, have no intention of spending 10k a month in our retirement. And while we would insure that you two do not end up on the street, you may be relegated to room in our home if you go through your savings. (In other words, you are not working to keep them in the style to which they would like to be accustomed.)

Obviously, script may be varied to suit your needs/intentions . . .
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