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Old 07-16-2019, 07:39 PM   #141
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I had a very toxic mother who did much worse financial stuff than what you have mentioned - a whole lot worse. One day it occurred to me that life would be better if I had nothing to do with her. Made a no contact policy, and life was great. If you have people acting like that in your life, even if it mom & dad - dump the relationship. You will be glad you did.
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Old 07-16-2019, 08:11 PM   #142
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Originally Posted by gwraigty View Post
Why not? Parents aren't automatically entitled to know everything about their adult kids lives and vice versa.
My thoughts exactly. It wouldn’t enter my mind to ask my kids any questions about their money situation because it’s none of my business. I think the OP is doing too much volunteering of information. But I echo everyone else’s opinion. Help your parents if they were never well off but no help if they are just blowing money right and left with no plan.
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Old 07-16-2019, 08:12 PM   #143
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My wonderful in-laws told their children they planned to spend it all and not to expect an inheritance while the children were in school. Neither child started working until they were 30. The children interpreted the message as support yourselves. Once the in-laws retired, they started traveling extensively and taking everyone on luxury family vacations. Although I enjoy the vacations, I was concerned they would run out of money and asked my husband to make sure they had enough. He spoke to them and it turns out they have an annuity and long term care policies that will cover them to the grave. It sounds like your in-laws also have enough, but if you're concerned, you may have your spouse speak to them to assure them that you have enough not to need an inheritance and ascertain they have enough for long term care. Or you could just let them live their life and live your own. I think your in-laws are concerned that you haven't saved enough. I don't think you need to save anything in case they blow it.
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Old 07-16-2019, 08:25 PM   #144
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I don't know and I doubt that they know, but they said their FA was fantastic and their portfolio grew a lot since the recession. Last I heard was about half a year ago, that their FA believed the market was due for correction so he/she sold substantial of their portfolio and held in cash await to jump back in at the right moment.
Oh my God! A financial “adviser “ that thinks he has a magic ball. What can go wrong?
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Old 07-16-2019, 09:30 PM   #145
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OP, it really does no good to worry about what may happen in the future. I used to worry about what would happen to my DM if my stepdad passed away since he pretty much handled everything financially and otherwise and I wasn't sure she could manage on her own. Well, low and behold, she passed away from cancer at age 70. Fifteen years later, stepdad is still going strong at age 88. My point is that you can cross that bridge (regarding parents potentially running out of money) when you get to it, but you should not let it significantly influence your plans right now.
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Old 07-18-2019, 11:33 PM   #146
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Thank you for your responses so far. It seems easy to say that we are not responsible to support them later on, but it is much harder to do so, especially when have good relationship so far. I don't believe they deliberately trying to make us pay for their elder years, it's just that they are not happy we want to retire early, and not having grand children. It is hard to predict when life will throw a curve ball at you, so if they fall in hardship a decade down the road due to illness, even though they could have ride it out if they keep a healthy saving, we would not be in the right to not help them. To tell them that we won't support them financially will definitely damage our relationship.

I don't think you should tell them you won't support them in later years. That is kind of stooping down to their level especially if you are on good terms now. You just live your life the way you want to and let them live theirs. That is it!
Best of luck!
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Old 07-19-2019, 09:29 AM   #147
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I think that you should set clear boundaries with your parents and live the life that you want regardless of their judgement. I am much happier since I have taken similar steps with my own parents.

Ironically, your parent's financial advisor does not think that they can afford to spend $10K a month either.
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Old 07-19-2019, 06:09 PM   #148
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It’s the same question all over again. The people who spend all through life run out and get supported through the taxes others continue to pay. If my family member was responsible with money I would help but if they were not they can apply to use the money I was required to pay to support irresponsible people like them.
Responsible people pay to police irresponsible people. For the last 10 years responsible people have been paying through low savings rates received on cd’s, for the people who gave or received a bad home loans.
I wouldn’t feel any responsibility whatsoever.
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Old 07-19-2019, 08:02 PM   #149
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Just make sure they never move to a "Familial Law" State. Of they do, the Courts may force you to cover the cost of their wastful spending.
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Old 07-20-2019, 10:08 AM   #150
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Just make sure they never move to a "Familial Law" State. Of they do, the Courts may force you to cover the cost of their wastful spending.
From discussions over on bogleheads I don't think any state has yet been successful in enforcing said laws.
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Old 07-20-2019, 10:41 AM   #151
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I continue to fail to see any major problem here.

Of course the parents are "shocked and dismayed" to hear that the kids are going to live a different lifestyle. Happens most of the time when the kids take a significantly different path than the aging, set-in-their-ways parents did. And it doesn't have to be a situation where the kids are choosing to follow a lower income/spending lifestyle. For us, we were dismayed when both DS and DIL chose to take stressful jobs as managers at tech MegaCorps while raising three kids (one with special needs). They're so busy! We look at their schedule and our eyes roll up in wonder how they do it! But, we keep our mouths mostly zipped, help out occasionally and remind ourselves their lives are theirs to live.

OP's in-laws aren't necessarily in troublesome financial shape. We only know that they're spending somewhat extravagantly now and if they keep it up, their FA says they might run out of money in 20 years. They're in their 60's. Does anyone really think they'll continue this level of activity into their 80's? I predict a slowing of spending as they age and likely no financial problems in the distant future. In the meantime, I'd cheer them on (maybe hold a bon voyage party) as they embark on their next international trip!

Since possible financial problems for the in-laws are unlikely and so far in the future (by which time all the circumstances can change), is OP subconsciously wishing the in-laws lifestyle and financial plans would be more accommodative of being a back-up for his FIRE plans?
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Old 07-20-2019, 10:56 AM   #152
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I continue to fail to see any major problem here.

Of course the parents are "shocked and dismayed" to hear that the kids are going to live a different lifestyle. Happens most of the time when the kids take a significantly different path than the aging, set-in-their-ways parents did.
I agree. My Dad worked for the same company for 40 years, and was "shocked and dismayed" when I changed jobs. Aerospace is a whole different world than the one he was in.
I think as many have said here, OP's parents are going to slow down as they age.I am now 81 (and will not run out of money). In the past 3 years we have taken 3 cruises total.
We can no longer tolerate those 10 hour flights, even in Business Class. Also, DW has some breathing problems. To keep her in an airplane with a cabin altitude of 7000 feet is looking for trouble.
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Old 07-20-2019, 11:15 AM   #153
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I think that you should set clear boundaries with your parents and live the life that you want regardless of their judgement.
I sure agree here. Speaking from the parent's side of the table, this happened to us. When DS and DIL married, I was anxious to begin an extended-family plan to transfer wealth to them (conservatively and as we were able) to significantly enhance their FIRE probabilities. In their view, especially DIL's, this led to excessive "meddling" and sharing of financial data on our part. Sooooo...... with that lesson learned we just gently backed out wishing we had never made the assumption that accumulating wealth leading to FIRE would be high on their priority list. Haven't mentioned investing, FIRE, careers, wealth, etc., etc. to them in years and we're all happier for it and are enjoying a very happy and positive relationship.

Regarding setting clear boundaries....... There should also be some attempt at understanding where the parents are coming from. Their reaction isn't unusual or uncaring. After bringing their daughter into the world, raising her and giving unconditional love all this time, it's hard to completely let go and not get caught up in what appears to them to be a dicey financial situation (FIRE). It's tough to ignore unwanted comments but rest assured it will pay off as mom and dad observe their daughter living a happy and secure life despite both she and her DH retiring very early. They'll come around. It will just take a little time.

Quote:
Ironically, your parent's financial advisor does not think that they can afford to spend $10K a month either.
We don't know much about the parents overall financial situation, their health and life expectancy, etc. But they are in their 60's, having fun now and OP says:

Quote:
their financial adviser projected them to run out of money in 20 years.
I don't think the issues are actually the possibilities of the parents running out of money and needing support later. The issues are the combination of the parents' reaction to the kids' choice of lifestyle, the kids failure to take their reaction with a grain of salt realizing parents commonly react negatively to what they perceive as risk to the kids' well being and unrealistic worry about the parents' long term financial status which doesn't look all that bad to me.

OP does seem genuinely interested in having a positive relationship with his in-laws and staying connected. So, don't fret their spending and lifestyle and, in fact, be happy for them. It will be a number of years ahead before you know if the elevated spending continues and whether the 20 year projection is really a threat. That is, whether they keep up the travel and everything into their 80's (doubtful) or whether they're even alive then. And go on with your plans and life having a thick skin for any comments made. Remember, they're parent-geezers which isn't an easy thing to be. This spoken by a long FIRE'd parent-geezer.

OP's post seems a bit more of a rant than an objective, quantitative evaluation. With that in mind, I'd just advise him to not say or do anything that might have long term consequences regarding his DW's relationship with her parents over the long term. These parent/child lifestyle choice disagreements have a way of eventually blowing over.......... if you don't make too many hurtful comments while there're going on.
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Old 07-20-2019, 12:44 PM   #154
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It is about how much should we plan to provide given our own ER timeline, and that parents are much more than well-off than the kids. We care about our parents hence the question.
Setting the original rant and the mostly subjective inputs aside, I'll comment on this more quantitative question.

If you feel that DW's feelings about not having her parents live in poverty if they run out of money would cause her to want to provide something for them, consider these points:

It will have nothing to do with "parents are much more than well-off than the kids." Once the parents are out of money (in the unlikely event that occurs), then the kids are more well-off than the parents. It will be primarily your DW's feelings about it. In my family's situation, I'd assume my DW would want to help her parents in some way.

As far as specific dollar amounts go, you've fallen far short of giving enough info for much of a guess. But consider these things......

If both DW's parents are in LTC when they run out of money, there will be nothing financially you can do since anything you could contribute would be nothing compared to the size of the annual cost and wouldn't change the fact that they're on Medicaid. You will need to understand the Medicaid rules and regs and the art of finding decent Medicaid accommodations. And it would be nice if DW had the money to gas up the car and visit them once in a while.......

If one or both of DW's parents are still at home when they run out of money, you need to compare a poverty+ income need with what ongoing income they will have. SS? Pension? Then figure what you would need to bring their ongoing income up to poverty+. Say you think you'd need to add $10k/yr for 10 years taking them deep into their 90's and still living at home. Then save $100k more. Also, if and when you feel the need arising years from now, learn the ropes of the local welfare system and be prepared to act as their advocate.

I understand that "because you care for the parents," it's very hard to take advise to "let them starve," etc. But there isn't much you can or need to do financially. And it does sound like the possibility of them running out of money is slim. So I think your main commitment will be to act as their advocate with Medicaid and/or welfare agencies if and when the time comes.

If it looked like they would run out of money at 70 yrs old or so, that would be a different question. You just don't seem to have much "parent support risk" compared to most folks and I certainly wouldn't let it alter my FIRE plans. If DW's parents would benefit from some support years from now, do the best you can with the circumstances that exist at the time. No way to know what those circumstances will be at this point.
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