|
|
Perpetual Self Employed Semi-Retirement
08-05-2008, 04:06 AM
|
#1
|
Recycles dryer sheets
Join Date: Sep 2004
Posts: 330
|
Perpetual Self Employed Semi-Retirement
Be interested to know how many posters have ever considered never officially totally retiring. Does anyone "work" for themselves 15-20 hours per week at their leisure/own schedule and never plan to "retire". Taking time off per your own wishes and desire etc.Make enough to pay minimal or no taxes. Would this not ease some of the inflationary bumps/market variances and still keep the mind active particularly if you're doing something you love to do and its not really "work" but almost an avocation/hobby.
|
|
|
|
Join the #1 Early Retirement and Financial Independence Forum Today - It's Totally Free!
Are you planning to be financially independent as early as possible so you can live life on your own terms? Discuss successful investing strategies, asset allocation models, tax strategies and other related topics in our online forum community. Our members range from young folks just starting their journey to financial independence, military retirees and even multimillionaires. No matter where you fit in you'll find that Early-Retirement.org is a great community to join. Best of all it's totally FREE!
You are currently viewing our boards as a guest so you have limited access to our community. Please take the time to register and you will gain a lot of great new features including; the ability to participate in discussions, network with our members, see fewer ads, upload photographs, create a retirement blog, send private messages and so much, much more!
|
08-05-2008, 05:49 AM
|
#2
|
Full time employment: Posting here.
Join Date: Jan 2008
Posts: 847
|
Hey, that's my plan! I currently have a full time j*b in IT. Evenings, weekends and holidays, I'm an artist selling my landscape paintings through a few art galleries. My plan is to retire from the IT day job soon, leaving more time for the artistic pursuits. Some might consider that 'just a hobby' but it does require quite a bit of work and I spend more time on the business side of my art than I do on the actual painting. On downer is that the art market is very fickle - in good years, I can make a decent income from my paintings, but when the economy is bad, the last thing someone wants to spent their $ on is original art.
I want to be FI when I quit the day job, then any income from my art will be a nice cushion. So I guess I will never really retire, I'll just make a career change to something that pays a lot less, but I really love doing. (Ok, maybe that is retirement then).
|
|
|
08-05-2008, 06:02 AM
|
#3
|
Give me a museum and I'll fill it. (Picasso) Give me a forum ...
Join Date: Feb 2006
Location: Washington, DC
Posts: 11,328
|
I have posted about my brother before. He is 75 and still working. He is a lobbyist so his work returns a lot more than a supplement. But for the past 10 years or so his schedule is pretty light. Since he is a solo practitioner he can control what he gets into - but he still has some crunch periods. He thrives on the activity - I can't imagine him quitting until his health fails.
__________________
Idleness is fatal only to the mediocre -- Albert Camus
|
|
|
08-05-2008, 06:40 AM
|
#4
|
Thinks s/he gets paid by the post
Join Date: Nov 2005
Posts: 1,600
|
Quote:
Originally Posted by ferco
Does anyone "work" for themselves 15-20 hours per week at their leisure/own schedule and never plan to "retire".
|
Edit this to 50-60 hours per week, and you have my situation. I don't plan to ever 'retire' - it looks boring, although admittedly I've never tried it.
|
|
|
08-05-2008, 06:43 AM
|
#5
|
Moderator Emeritus
Join Date: Feb 2004
Location: minnesota
Posts: 13,228
|
Quote:
Originally Posted by JoeDreaming
Hey, that's my plan! I currently have a full time j*b in IT. Evenings, weekends and holidays, I'm an artist selling my landscape paintings through a few art galleries. My plan is to retire from the IT day job soon, leaving more time for the artistic pursuits. Some might consider that 'just a hobby' but it does require quite a bit of work and I spend more time on the business side of my art than I do on the actual painting. On downer is that the art market is very fickle - in good years, I can make a decent income from my paintings, but when the economy is bad, the last thing someone wants to spent their $ on is original art.
I want to be FI when I quit the day job, then any income from my art will be a nice cushion. So I guess I will never really retire, I'll just make a career change to something that pays a lot less, but I really love doing. (Ok, maybe that is retirement then).
|
Hey, show us a picture or two! I love to see people's art and always wished I had the talent. But I don't.
__________________
.
No more lawyer stuff, no more political stuff, so no more CYA
|
|
|
08-05-2008, 07:16 AM
|
#6
|
Thinks s/he gets paid by the post
Join Date: Jan 2008
Posts: 2,020
|
I have a side job already that averages about 10 hours a week over the year (but I go many months without taking on new work). I'm not sure how long I'll keep it up, but I have thought what it'd take to keep the work coming in over the next many years.
|
|
|
08-05-2008, 07:41 AM
|
#7
|
Full time employment: Posting here.
Join Date: Jan 2008
Posts: 847
|
Quote:
Originally Posted by Martha
Hey, show us a picture or two! I love to see people's art and always wished I had the talent. But I don't.
|
I'd love to show some of my work here, but since I revealed so much of my finances in earlier posts, I think I should try to stay anonymous, and showing some images might reveal my true identity. (But I'll PM you something if you promise to keep it secret).
|
|
|
08-05-2008, 07:45 AM
|
#8
|
Full time employment: Posting here.
Join Date: Feb 2006
Posts: 987
|
Quote:
Originally Posted by ferco
considered never officially totally retiring.
|
No.
- Ron
|
|
|
08-05-2008, 09:09 AM
|
#9
|
Moderator Emeritus
Join Date: Dec 2002
Location: Oahu
Posts: 26,860
|
Quote:
Originally Posted by ferco
Be interested to know how many posters have ever considered never officially totally retiring. Does anyone "work" for themselves 15-20 hours per week at their leisure/own schedule and never plan to "retire". Taking time off per your own wishes and desire etc.Make enough to pay minimal or no taxes. Would this not ease some of the inflationary bumps/market variances and still keep the mind active particularly if you're doing something you love to do and its not really "work" but almost an avocation/hobby.
|
Bob Clyatt ("Work Less, Live More") has always intended to work part-time, and he's been able to return to his love for art:
Bob Clyatt Sculpture Home
__________________
*
Co-author (with my daughter) of “Raising Your Money-Savvy Family For Next Generation Financial Independence.”
Author of the book written on E-R.org: "The Military Guide to Financial Independence and Retirement."
I don't spend much time here— please send a PM.
|
|
|
08-05-2008, 09:26 AM
|
#10
|
Thinks s/he gets paid by the post
Join Date: Feb 2004
Posts: 2,670
|
I'm in that boat, although after seeing both sides, I'm sure I would be even happier being fully retired.
Just consider that $1 in earnings is equal to $25 of investable net worth. So, if you are willing to earn a few bucks, you don't have to work as long to save up what you need to fully retire. Even if you only earn $10,000 a year, it reduces your required savings by $250,000. For some, earning $10K a year is much easier than saving $250,000.
Semi-retirement may or may not be as good as full retirement, but it beats working full time.
__________________
No man is free who is not master of himself. --- Epictetus
Enjoy Yourself (It's Later Than You Think). --- Guy Lombardo
|
|
|
08-05-2008, 10:03 AM
|
#11
|
Recycles dryer sheets
Join Date: Sep 2004
Posts: 330
|
Retire@40,
Could you "earn" the entire 10k and take it as (legitimate)business expenses (auto,postage,cellphone,health insurance etc) and essentially owe no taxes....I would think so.
|
|
|
08-05-2008, 10:23 AM
|
#12
|
Recycles dryer sheets
Join Date: May 2007
Posts: 216
|
Quote:
Originally Posted by retire@40
I'm in that boat, although after seeing both sides, I'm sure I would be even happier being fully retired.
Just consider that $1 in earnings is equal to $25 of investable net worth. So, if you are willing to earn a few bucks, you don't have to work as long to save up what you need to fully retire. Even if you only earn $10,000 a year, it reduces your required savings by $250,000. For some, earning $10K a year is much easier than saving $250,000.
Semi-retirement may or may not be as good as full retirement, but it beats working full time.
|
Interesting. But are you saying that you have to work for the rest of your life for that 10k a year or until 65 or...? How are you calculating the 1/25 ratio?
Thanks.
__________________
"...I'm the kind of guy who if he can't have too much of a thing doesn't want any at all."
|
|
|
08-05-2008, 11:06 AM
|
#13
|
Recycles dryer sheets
Join Date: Dec 2006
Posts: 191
|
Quote:
Originally Posted by GatorBuzz
Interesting. But are you saying that you have to work for the rest of your life for that 10k a year or until 65 or...? How are you calculating the 1/25 ratio?
Thanks.
|
I am not retire@40, but I believe he was illustrating that $250k worth of investment assets should be able to support $10k withdrawals in perpetuity -- this is assuming you subscribe to the 4% SWR (i.e., 4% of $250k is $10k). So, to answer your question, in lieu of $250k worth of assets, you will either need to continue with the part-time job forever or until the $10 can be replaced with SS income (assuming you are not already accounting for SS $ in your assumptions/calculations).
|
|
|
08-05-2008, 11:10 AM
|
#14
|
Recycles dryer sheets
Join Date: May 2007
Posts: 216
|
Thanks, lucija. That makes sense. I wasn't picking up on the 4% angle. I never did well in math.
__________________
"...I'm the kind of guy who if he can't have too much of a thing doesn't want any at all."
|
|
|
08-05-2008, 11:27 AM
|
#15
|
Give me a museum and I'll fill it. (Picasso) Give me a forum ...
Join Date: May 2004
Location: SW Ohio
Posts: 14,404
|
Quote:
Originally Posted by ferco
Retire@40,
Could you "earn" the entire 10k and take it as (legitimate)business expenses (auto,postage,cellphone,health insurance etc) and essentially owe no taxes....I would think so.
|
Depending on the biz, you might be able to claim some expenses like these (add home office, travel, etc). The IRS expects that you are in business to make money and gets suspicious when the endeavor doesn't make money. If audited, they'll look at everything concerning the activity (are you running it in a businesslike manner? Have you made money in the past doing similar things, etc). From what read, they leave you alone if you've made money 3 out of the last 5 years. If not-they'll asume it is a hobby, not a business, and you'll have some explaining to do. You can't write off the expenses for a hobby
Also, having a business allows you to put away money tax-deferred in a SOLO 401K or a SEP. This can be quite a chunk of change. If you don't have other health insurance, you can also save on taxes through use of a health savings account.
|
|
|
perpetual self employed semi retirement
08-05-2008, 11:27 AM
|
#16
|
Full time employment: Posting here.
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: Northern California
Posts: 549
|
perpetual self employed semi retirement
I plan to work/play until my last day; I have planned for it for many years. Now we own an herb farm; I consider it as an asset to keep me engaged in life, and robustly healthy as well. I would be growing a garden anyway...also it dovetails well into my art work. Finally, it is great fun for me to make money! Thanks for the post!
Mary
|
|
|
08-05-2008, 11:32 AM
|
#17
|
Give me a museum and I'll fill it. (Picasso) Give me a forum ...
Join Date: Apr 2003
Location: Hooverville
Posts: 22,983
|
The shortcut of taking job income and mutiplying by 25 will in some ways overstate the job's value, and in some ways understate it. It understates because when you are employed money isn't the only thing you get. You also are staying connected to employment opportunities and networks, and maintaining habits and skills that make you suited to working- if only waking up to an alarm clock!
If for some reason you find that you need the job to provide more income, you at least might have a fighting chance to accomplish that.
At the same time, in a purely mathematical sense, a multiplier of 25*income is too great, since the job often is not expected to be infinite or very long duration. It would seem that a better value estimate might come from an inflation adjusted period certain annuity quote.
Ha
__________________
"As a general rule, the more dangerous or inappropriate a conversation, the more interesting it is."-Scott Adams
|
|
|
08-05-2008, 11:41 AM
|
#18
|
Thinks s/he gets paid by the post
Join Date: Feb 2004
Posts: 2,670
|
Quote:
Originally Posted by ferco
Retire@40,
Could you "earn" the entire 10k and take it as (legitimate)business expenses (auto,postage,cellphone,health insurance etc) and essentially owe no taxes....I would think so.
|
When I said $10K, I meant after expenses.
No point in earning a gross of $10K and paying $10K in business expenses. Might as well not work for the $10K.
However, you could subtract a contribution to your SEP-IRA or similar retirement plan once you have self-employed earnings. That would be a simultaneous deduction and a tax-deferred savings.
If you turn your hobby into a business, you could also deduct some expenses that would otherwise not be deductible. There are many rules to follow, so you need to know what you are doing to to it right.
__________________
No man is free who is not master of himself. --- Epictetus
Enjoy Yourself (It's Later Than You Think). --- Guy Lombardo
|
|
|
08-05-2008, 11:52 AM
|
#19
|
Recycles dryer sheets
Join Date: Sep 2004
Posts: 330
|
I like the idea of slow deceleration..............seems more physiologic and natural; ie., 40 / week --> 20 / week --> 10/ week. Maybe its just an observation (anecdoctal), but a fair number of people I know once retired in the traditional sense, seem to decline mentally and are not as sharp and also begin to have all sorts of infirmities and in some cases "early" death. However, maybe its different for the ER cohort; anyone have any other observations?
|
|
|
08-05-2008, 12:14 PM
|
#20
|
Recycles dryer sheets
Join Date: May 2007
Posts: 216
|
Quote:
Originally Posted by haha
At the same time, in a purely mathematical sense, a multiplier of 25*income is too great, since the job often is not expected to be infinite or very long duration. It would seem that a better value estimate might come from an inflation adjusted period certain annuity quote.
Ha
|
Yeah, exactly. Once I picked up on the rationale as being the 4% rule (yeah, so what, it took someone pointing it out to me ) I came to the same conclusion.
__________________
"...I'm the kind of guy who if he can't have too much of a thing doesn't want any at all."
|
|
|
|
|
Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
|
|
Posting Rules
|
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts
HTML code is Off
|
|
|
|
» Recent Threads
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
» Quick Links
|
|
|