Persistence of the American Dream

[Oakster]

How can it be dead?

How can the American Dream be dead? A crazy proportion of Millionairs in America are first generation millionairs. My family moved to Wyoming pretty broke when their was a poor economy in 1980. We lived modestly, were never close to hungry but we had used cars etc. I was in the 6th grade. My parents retired as multi millionaires through their own hard work and investing (some in the market, some in land development etc). I paid my own way through college as a single parent (definitely not the easy way to do it) and I paid my own through life. I received some baby sitting from my parents when I went to work after college. They both worked so it wasn't free day care, but they helped. I paid my own way for my own food, home, cars, day care, entertainment etc. Unless I die early, I will retire in the same fashion through different methods. My sons are in good paying jobs and taking the steps through investing and hard work to follow a similar path, in entirely different career fields, and are doing it on their own. I have not co-signed a loaned, paid a car payment etc for any of them. My daughter is going to college to be a lawyer in 1.5 years. Who knows how long that will be plan, or how she will turn out etc. The point is that through their own hard work and planning I witness people every day living the dream and creating their own life. Does everyone have it easy, pre-scripted and all planned out... no. But everyone does have that opportunity to pursue it and earn it. Those who don't believe it is still alive often fall in the 'victim' category and want to blame something, or someone for it being hard.

I can tell you one thing that will kill the American Dream and that is socialism, or taking from someone who earns it to provide for those who don't.

 

[travelover]

...........I can tell you one thing that will kill the American Dream and that is socialism, or taking from someone who earns it to provide for those who don't.

You really out to take this down the street to the political forum.

 

[MRG]

In 1963 a bear told me I was the only one that could prevent forest fires. That's way too much stress for a 5 year old.

"As short a time ago as February, the Ministry of Plenty had issued a promise (a ‘categorical pledge’ were the official words) that there would be no reduction of the chocolate ration during 1984. Actually, as Winston was aware, the chocolate ration was to be reduced from thirty grammes to twenty at the end of the present week. All that was needed was to substitute for the original promise a warning that it would probably be necessary to reduce the ration at some time in April"

Yeah I read this at age 12. I wasn't happy about the chocolate. I didn't know what a gramme was but I wanted 30 not 20.

 

[RobLJ]

On luck:

1) My fraternal twin was born with a congenital disease that was supposed to kill him by 16, if not for his qualifying for an experimental European anti-seizure medication, that kept him alive but unable to control his movement from 30-40.
Yep, I was extremely lucky. I think of it every day.
2) My sister taught me to read when I was 4 (she was in first grade) and my father the minister then had me read a chapter of the Bible every day. I became an addictive reader in rural Missouri with little else but baseball to distract me.

3) My parents were by no means wealthy (but highly esteemed, due to the church position), but after reading addictively during summers (and playing baseball and moving to Oklahoma) I "earned" a scholarship to undergrad. I would cheerfully have been a professional shortstop, which was my other idea, but I couldn't hit a good fastball (great on curves).
4) During the Volker recession (you can call it the Carter-Reagan recession if you wish) and the Southwest Real Estate Depression of the early 80's, I continued on to grad school in California pursuing useless knowledge not unlike the original thesis under discussion. And was hired afterwards nonetheless.

All this with less than 10k debt, unlike my sons, who both worked diligently during undergrad; we paid most of their tuition but not quite all.

Was I lucky? Damn straight. Only one of my high school cohorts had a similar trajectory.

I often wonder if I would have pursued higher education now given the debt that would entail--now.

My father was picking cotton at 4-6 in Southern Oklahoma in the Depression and had his younger brother die of appendicitis in the fields. He also felt lucky, all his life (and it was a hard one; he never quite got over the blow of his 3 year old brother's death since he felt responsible.) Luck isn't everything--but it takes a lot of luck to be a success, and hard work too, to be sure.

5) [Edit] I forgot to add that the Parental Unit started a church in Rhode Island where I was born and the hospital happened to have incubators, which weren't normally available in OK and Missouri (at that time, at least) where I lived afterwards. As a premie twin (with the wax in the lungs that is common for premies), there is no doubt I would have died in the first day or two without the incubator. I was in it for 3 weeks (my older twin only was there 1 week). Luck. (Fortuna, Blind Goddess!)

I'd almost certainly be dead by now, having lived a life that was "solitary, poor, nasty, brutish, and short".

But I got lucky. I was born in the U.S., in one of the wealthiest counties in the country (although as the son of an electrician and a secretary we were ourselves not wealthy) but that gave me access to one of the better public school systems in the country. I also had housing, regular meals, medical care, and all the other bennies that came with 1950's and '60's suburbia.

I think there is little question that luck plays a role. The bigger issue of course is what one does with that luck.

 

[brucethebroker]

I will acknowledge this: IMO, the effort required to achieve the dream can make it all the sweeter once you get there. I spent 15 years working my way up to my career destination, so I have had a taste of that.

You are on the right track here...Just my opinion but LBYM gets far too little credit in most of the "American Dream" debates.

 

[brucethebroker]

On luck:
I often wonder if I would have pursued higher education now given the debt that would entail--now.

There are many options today, including a bunch for online degree programs, either for a full degree or taking basic courses and then transferring. (Grandkids are in a HS that gives college credits for many advanced math, science, etc. courses needed for a HS degree-up to 2 years of college credit.)

Sure, if kids just blindly apply to the college of their choice, the price may be very high. But there are other, less expensive ways to go.