Personal finance ignorance among the otherwise intelligent

[ivinsfan]

A good friend of mine is a client manager in Wells Fargo's Private Client business (very high net worth individuals). Besides the WF logo on his business card, all he has on his card is his name and phone number. No title needed.

I think WF sold off this division starting this Fall...

 

[teetee]

Breach of fiduciary duty. Financial abuse of an elder. Depends on the state what laws apply.

But given the recent market the victim may not have been damaged by owning the fund. So what can he claim in civil court?

Most financial advisors from brokers are not bound by fiduciary duty rule. They earn their living via trading commissions, not the wellbeing of their customers.
https://smartasset.com/financial-advisor/what-is-fiduciary-financial-advisor

Fiduciary or not, trust your money to someone other than yourself always runs into a risk when that someone does not have your best interest at heart.

 

[NW-Bound]

I can tell you never had a job requiring a security clearance. A CFO in financial straits is a security risk to the company's assets in his care.

A while back, a close friend of my son asked me to be a reference on his application to be a state trooper. I later got a call from the police department regarding this young man.

The questions were mostly about his character, his temper, his drinking and smoking habits, etc..., which I answered to the extent of my knowledge. This young man and my son hung out quite a bit in their HS years, so I knew something about him.

I remember that the interviewer asked me if he had financial problems, or was into gambling, etc... I could only answer that I would not know, but had seen and heard no indications of that.

By the way, the young man was accepted.

 

[MRG]

All these companies call themselves wealth management companies. It is up to the FA to call themselves whatever they want to call. Mine happens to be the head of the branch and his title does not even reflect what he does other than the position within the firm. People should not get too excited over titles. It is AUM and its related fees, the FA and the results that matter. Our first FA out of CA was probably not as smart as average FIRE group here. Our current FA is one of the smartest people whom we have met.

All these companies recycle each other's ideas just like they recycle their employees. I'm not talking about the guy at the Jones or Fidelity office but more senior people.

 

[Ncc1701]

This US teaches its young people about history, calculus, physics, even woodworking. For most, not all, those classes will be a waste of time. Not a single class on basic money management is downright shameful IMHO.

 

[RetiredHappy]

All these companies recycle each other's ideas just like they recycle their employees. I'm not talking about the guy at the Jones or Fidelity office but more senior people.

I did not find your post in this thread. So what are you talking about?

 

[Walt34]

This US teaches its young people about history, calculus, physics, even woodworking. For most, not all, those classes will be a waste of time. Not a single class on basic money management is downright shameful IMHO.

Apparently it depends very much on the individual school or maybe even if a teacher who is interested in teaching the subject happens to work there. Several people on the forum in this thread and in others have written over the years about how a HS class in finance was invaluable to them.

And for myself, there were two classes in all of HS that were invaluable to me later in life. One was in typing. The other was in personal finance.

 

[RobbieB]

Seems like a good time to roll this again. Glad I copied it -

All I needed to know about finance I learned from Pops. He was a man of few words.

1) You can make a million a year but if you spend a million a year you aren't going to have anything, so save some. These savings while small but growing will enable you to buy furniture and appliances without credit.

2) When you've saved enough for a down payment, buy a house. The difference between rent and mortgage is small and the government helps you with interest and you keep building equity. The mortgage should be your only debt.

3) When your savings have recovered from the down payment and the move in expenses, start buying stocks. That's where you'll make the most.

 

[Nick12]

Apparently it depends very much on the individual school or maybe even if a teacher who is interested in teaching the subject happens to work there. Several people on the forum in this thread and in others have written over the years about how a HS class in finance was invaluable to them.

And for myself, there were two classes in all of HS that were invaluable to me later in life. One was in typing. The other was in personal finance.

What I learned in school is effective time mgt. I played sports, went to classes and my day was packed from morning to night that including studying. None of that social media baloney that many are into now.

 

[Amethyst]

Back then there was just as much baloney, but in different form. For instance, we passed notes! And spent hours on the phone talking of nothing.

What I learned in school is effective time mgt. I played sports, went to classes and my day was packed from morning to night that including studying. None of that social media baloney

 

[Nick12]

Back then there was just as much baloney, but in different form. For instance, we passed notes! And spent hours on the phone talking of nothing.

One rude awakening of personal finance when some were young was when kids talked to kids on the phone that lived in another town - .05 cent a minute...

 

[RobbieB]

That would mean that a 2 hour call would cost a whole six cents.

 

[finnski1]

That would mean that a 2 hour call would cost a whole six cents.

$6.00

 

[rodi]

$6.00

0.05 cents times 120 minutes = 6 cents

If it were 5 cents /minute - it would be $6.

 

[Nick12]

That would mean that a 2 hour call would cost a whole six cents.

Typo on my part.

 

[finnski1]

0.05 cents times 120 minutes = 6 cents

If it were 5 cents /minute - it would be $6.

Yeah I know but do you really think it was .05 cents per minute or 5 cents per minute. I remember those 5 or 10 cents /minute days.

 

[Nick12]

This US teaches its young people about history, calculus, physics, even woodworking. For most, not all, those classes will be a waste of time. Not a single class on basic money management is downright shameful IMHO.

In Coast Guard boot camp training in Cape May, NJ all recruits attend a required personal finance class.

 

[Nick12]

Yeah I know but do you really think it was .05 cents per minute or 5 cents per minute. I remember those 5 or 10 cents /minute days.

I heard my parents loud and clear when I was very young calling my friend Tony in the next town over, a 2 min walk to his house from mine and 5 cent a minute to talk. Those phone calls add up very quickly.

 

[beernutzbob]

When my then girlfriend now my wife and I were juniors in HS we signed up
For an elective class called “consumer education and personal finance”. I have no idea why this wasn’t a required class from junior high through high school. We learned about investing, compounding interest, banking, insurance etc. I got more out of that one semester class than 4 years of other subjects combined. When HS graduation day came I searched out that teacher and thanked him for teaching this class. A few years later when I was just starting my business he hired me to do a bunch of work for him. I like to think that class helped seal the deal and convince my girlfriend to marry me!

I still remember a quote that teacher said. He said “rich people stay rich by living like they are broke. Broke people stay broke by living like they are rich”.

The Millionaire Next Door should be required high school reading.

 

[MRG]

I did not find your post in this thread. So what are you talking about?

Your comment about they all called themselves wealth management. The folks doing the branding share idea's and jobs.

 

[RetiredHappy]

Your comment about they all called themselves wealth management. The folks doing the branding share idea's and jobs.

Sure, and they all try to get a share of the market. There is alot of money to be made.

 

[Scuba]

Some people are convinced that managing their investments is too hard. My sister falls in this group. She and I are both at Schwab, she has chosen the managed portfolio solution... I DIY. She pays 0.3% AUM. Which isn't bad. We've talked about it and she likes that she knows she won't panic and sell since there is sometimes in charge if her investments. The fees are low enough to make this a good solution for her.

Lots of my former co-workers (engineers) had high fee advisors because they were convinced it was too hard to invest. I preached the lazy portfolio mantra to them and got blank stares. These are people who understood complex math systems...

Same with other financial stuff. 529s... Blank stares. Expense ratios of funds in the 401k? Blank stares. The idea that pulling cash out in a refi *and* rolling in the refi fees increases the debt, even if you have a lower payment... Puzzled looks.

I agree. I’ve suggested to several friends that they might maximize their returns and minimize complexity with a simple DIY portfolio. Or, hire a fee-only advisor as needed but do routine portfolio maintenance themselves. Most do not listen as they think it’s too hard. I’m talking about people with MBA’s.

I can understand it. We hired an FA for several years - 3 years prior to ER. We kept her for 5 years, probably 2 years longer than we should have. She wasn’t a bad FA but I concluded that those on this forum who recommended DIY were correct. I reached that conclusion by comparing our performance to blended benchmark indices and determined that we were about on market performance, minus the fees we were paying. The fees were low percentage wise, but still lots of cash out the door. So we went DIY almost 4 years ago and it’s been great.

 

[captain3d]

I always try to help people with investing. They rarely want to make the effort.

Every time I fail I ultimately benefit when their poor choices fuel my investment gains.

Well I did try.

 

[Nick12]

I always try to help people with investing. They rarely want to make the effort.

Every time I fail I ultimately benefit when their poor choices fuel my investment gains.

Well I did try.

I was in a hotel a few years ago when I noticed a lot of basketball players attending meetings in the convention area. When inquiring one told me that every player drafted into the NBA every year has to attend a mandatory one week seminar and classes together taught by current and former NBA players and coaches , owners, financial execs and doctors. The drafted players going into their first NBA season learn financial awareness, ethics, pros and cons of social media, life after basketball, drugs, temptations while playing to include basketball groupies. I think this is a very good thing to teach these young men who had become instant millionaires.

 

[marko]

I always remind DW:
"Rich people are rich as long as they have a paycheck coming in. Wealthy people are wealthy without one."

IMO, more wealthy people understand personal finance better than rich people; that's how they stay that way.

"We don't get money, we have money" Bill Weld