Please talk me out of buying a new car!

[haha]

I'm also in the buy camp. You've obviously shown the discipline over 14 years that the car is utilitarian in function as opposed to a wasteful status symbol etc.

It is incomprehensible to me that a well to do professional person would drive a 14 year old car. The safety improvements alone in just the last few years would argue for the purchase, even if your current car had not been compromised by deterioration.


Ha

 

[mexmeme]

We will never buy new again. Look for gently used 2 or 3 yr old Honda or Toyota. Let the idle rich take that hard depreciation hit on their way out the dealer's lot.

 

[brewer12345]

It is incomprehensible to me that a well to do professional person would drive a 14 year old car. The safety improvements alone in just the last few years would argue for the purchase, even if your current car had not been compromised by deterioration.


Ha

14 years, yeah. But which safety improvements that cropped up in the past few years do you have in mind? Stability control? Greater prevalence of side airbags? Something else? Aside from stability control on hulking SUVs, I am having a tough time coming up with something that important in the last few years.

 

[haha]

14 years, yeah. But which safety improvements that cropped up in the past few years do you have in mind? Stability control? Greater prevalence of side airbags? Something else? Aside from stability control on hulking SUVs, I am having a tough time coming up with something that important in the last few years.

Stability control; better side and head air bags.

Ha

 

[brewer12345]

Stability control; better side and head air bags.

Ha

The frontal airbags have gotten significantly better? We talking about the multi-stage/depowered ones? I wasn't aware that they made a big difference (not that I was looking).

 

[ziggy29]

We will never buy new again. Look for gently used 2 or 3 yr old Honda or Toyota. Let the idle rich take that hard depreciation hit on their way out the dealer's lot.

With a "gently used Honda or Toyota," you will NOT see a steep depreciation after 2 or 3 years. In fact, if you are a cash buyer late in a model year, you may be able to get some really good deals off the lot from dealers looking to clear old inventory, especially if you're somewhat flexible about the model and the color and such and especially in a crappy economy where not many are buying big ticket items.

This strategy is an example of the type of thing that stops working well as soon as it becomes such conventional wisdom that many people are doing it.

If you want something like a Ford or Chevy SUV, this advice still works almost all the time. For a smaller Toyota or Honda, the depreciation schedule is much closer to linear than it ever used to be.

 

[Meadbh]

It is incomprehensible to me that a well to do professional person would drive a 14 year old car.

Ha, I find it incomprehensible that you find it incomprehensible! This gal's a well do do professional LBYM person!!!!

 

[ziggy29]

Ha, I find it incomprehensible that you find it incomprehensible! This gal's a well do do professional LBYM person!!!!

You keep using that word. I do not think it means what you think it means.

Oh, wait -- that was "inconceivable." Never mind.

 

[samclem]

With a "gently used Honda or Toyota," you will NOT see a steep depreciation after 2 or 3 years. . . . For a smaller Toyota or Honda, the depreciation schedule is much closer to linear than it ever used to be.

This has been my experience as well. In addition, if you'll be holding on to it for a decade, there's some dollar value (possible longevity) and peace of mind to be had from knowing that the oil has always been good quality and changed on time, that the car has never been overheated, that the undercarriage had the salt rinsed off periodically, etc. If you are holding on to it for a long time, the $$/year of spending a thousand or two more up front is fairly minor if you get another year out of the car.

But, with an American car, I'd still look to buy used, unless there was a fantastic deal on new ones. Either way, I'd want a very long, very comprehensive warranty before buying an American car. Sorry it is like that--but I've been burned enough.

 

[Meadbh]

I'd want a very long, very comprehensive warranty before buying an American car. Sorry it is like that--but I've been burned enough.

Me too. Sorry, but I'm in the quality business myself and am biased towards Japanese cars (which are made in North America anyway).

The Toyota Way: 14 Management ... - Google Book Search

 

[cute fuzzy bunny]

The millionaire next door recommended buying cars on a price/lb basis, since you could buy a big honking american car for less than a small foreign car, and their thesis was that quality wasnt as good but the price more than made up for it.

Not sure that advice is still good, but there it is

I also see no benefit in buying 2-3 year old far east cars unless they're kias, infiniti, daewoo, hyundais, etc. Many of those DO experience steep depreciation but you wont get anything for them when you're done with them.

2-3 year old hondas and toyotas cost almost as much as new and you dont know what was done to them for 2-3 years. Bad trade.

 

[Nords]

14 years, yeah. But which safety improvements that cropped up in the past few years do you have in mind? Stability control? Greater prevalence of side airbags? Something else? Aside from stability control on hulking SUVs, I am having a tough time coming up with something that important in the last few years.

It's not as if they were deathtraps to begin with.

Hey, CFB, you might know if there's a study about this question: have airbags provided any additional safety benefit to seatbelt wearers, or is it a belt&suspenders feature?

 

[cute fuzzy bunny]

Almost impossible to say. People lie about whether they were wearing seatbelts or not.

Injury rates improved drastically almost in lock step with the introduction of air bags, which suggests more that people werent wearing seatbelts than any advantage.

I do know that a lot of people suffer minor to moderate injuries from the older style air bags. I remember a lady at work who got into an accident in a chrysler the first year they came out with the first air bags. It was a minor fenderbender, but she had both of her thumbs broken and looked like she'd gone 12 rounds with mike tyson...broken nose and two black eyes.

The new ones, fortunately, are better.

What I wonder is whether people drive more aggressively since they think they're protected by their own little cocoon...?

 

[Zathras]

IF you can get $4000 in rebates, I would buy now.
The cost of the batteries will be decreasing in 6-12 years when you need to replace them and odds are very high you will have a warranty covering them for at least 8 years.
If you can't get the rebates, and the car you have is safe to drive, I would try to hold out for 2 years until the next generation of EVs and PHEVs arrive. You can either buy one of those or get a better deal on this generation of hybrids.

 

[HFWR]

I remember a lady at work who got into an accident in a chrysler the first year they came out with the first air bags. It was a minor fenderbender, but she had both of her thumbs broken and looked like she'd gone 12 rounds with mike tyson...broken nose and two black eyes.

Did she lose part of an ear?

 

[cute fuzzy bunny]

Nope, this is well before the ear biting era.

 

[Zoocat]

Why not buy a last year's model at year end? Those are pretty good deals, better than a $2000 rebate. Also, buying a Honda certified used car from the dealer is a way to get a used car that is reliable.

 

[Urchina]

This month's consumer reports has a nice article about the total 5-year cost of new vs used cars, and it also compares the 5-year cost of ownership of Civic vs Toyota hybrids. I'd go check it out at your library before making a major decision.

I do know that we've bought our last two cars new (Hondas) and that I've never regretted a penny spent on them. They're the right cars for us. I do know that I wish we had been able to wait a little longer so that we could have bought gently-used ones -- weirdly enough, Honda changed the cabin configuration on the models we bought, the year that we bought them, and provided significantly improved head and legroom. We wanted to buy gently-used cars, but the prior year models weren't comfortable for us. And waiting also wasn't an option (my car was unregisterable due to emissions problems, though still going strong at 23 y.o.; DH's car was about to die, at 18 y.o.) So it was new cars for us.

Me, I'm holding out for the Chevy Volt (or the Toyota/Honda equivalent). I really, really want a plug-in for DH's commuting vehicle.

 

[cute fuzzy bunny]

I hope you've checked your electric rates if you're looking at a plug in car.

At our usage level, electricity is at 31c a kw. Its probably a bit cheaper in other parts of the country, but unless you live near a nuke or hydro power you're probably looking at some serious change.

Too bad because a plug in with 15-20 miles of range would be perfect for me. A few times a week I go somewhere thats 30-50 miles away but 98% of my use is <10 miles.

But it'd cost me more in electricity than it does in gas.

 

[ziggy29]

I hope you've checked your electric rates if you're looking at a plug in car.

At our usage level, electricity is at 31c a kw. Its probably a bit cheaper in other parts of the country, but unless you live near a nuke or hydro power you're probably looking at some serious change.

This is true. I would expect, though, that if PHEVs start really gaining market share, you'll see more of a push to "peak pricing" models which mean low rates for charging overnight. The more electric demand the utilities can move into the overnight hours when they have plenty of excess capacity, the more they can avoid needing to build new costly power plants. The utilities certainly have an incentive to want to shift demand into the overnight hours, and such a pricing model would convince consumers to do it.

Right now our electric rates are pretty much a flat 11 cents per kWh. Unlike a lot of Texans getting boned by deregulation, we don't have to deal with that since our city buys wholesale co-op power.

 

[cute fuzzy bunny]

Cool. Our basic rate is cheap but we've got a 5 tiered rate structure and our current use is just within tier 3, so any additional use is at that price.

We have a day/night plan, and I need to look at that. The one time I looked at it the day rates were really much higher than the regular rate plan but the night time rates were super cheap.

I'm sure some team of actuaries has made sure I'll feel molested when I get the bill, one way or the other.

 

[Zathras]

Even at your cost of 31c/Kw I suspect you would save.
Our cost for electricity is 8c/Kw so it is a no brainer for us (off peak is 5.7c/Kw).
As the only car I know the stats for is the Tesla Roadster, lets try that one.
Battery pack of 52Kw will take you 225 miles. So approximately 4.3 miles per Kw.
At 31cents a Kw you could go 43 miles for $3.10. Pretty steep but still less than gas for a vehicle that gets 43mpg.

 

[samclem]

Since we're going down the alternative-fuel route, here's another option:
- A Ford Taurus powered by compressed natural gas (CNG) gets 21 miles per therm.
(this is a substantial car, not a wispy econo-box). (see this Kansas state comparison of alternative-fuel vehicles).
- The conversion of a standard gasoline car to CNG costs $4000 to $5000. These conversions can run on either gasoline OR CNG. USe the gasoline when you are on long trips away from your available high-pressure NG, and run off NG the other 95% of the time. The high-pressure pump to let you fill the car at home costs another couple grand.
- The average price for a therm of NG in the US is about $1.80 (see this chart. A therm = approx 100 cubic feet, the costs shown are for 1000 cu ft). So, your fuel cost would be approx 1.80/21 = 8.6 cents per mile.

The average cost for electricity in the US is 10.6 cents per kWh . So, if the Tesla roadster has a battery with a 56 kWh capacity, it costs $5.94 to "fill the tank", and it will go 225 miles. That's 2.6 cents per mile. Oh, wait, here's some small print we should see: The battery is good for "> 500 recharges". Yikes! That's supposed to be okay? Replacing the battery every three years is going to cost how much?

In comparison, a gasoline powered car (25 mpg, gasoline at $4) costs 16 cents per mile in fuel.

The CNG conversion can make a lot of sense if you want/need a real car (that can carry 4 people and groceries), if you might want to tow a light trailer, if you might want to take it on trips and be able to fill it with gasoline, if you'd like to save approx 1/2 in fuel costs, and be able to get it repaired at any regular mechanic. Total costs (conversion + high pressure pump) of about $6000 over the cost of a "regular" car (and the slight loss of utility from the space taken by the CNG tank). It would take about 75,000 miles of driving to break even for these costs--after that, it's all money in the bank.

It's not for everybody, but it could make sense for a lot of folks.

 

[Bestwifeever]

Don't forget about safety in a newer car--side airbags and air curtains, etc. I'd buy a new one now.

 

[Zathras]

Oh, wait, here's some small print we should see: The battery is good for "> 500 recharges". Yikes! That's supposed to be okay? Replacing the battery every three years is going to cost how much?

The batteries are estimated to give you 100,000 miles of full performance driving (Tesla Motors - charging & batteries), with some degradation after that (so you would get a 200, 180, maybe 160 mile range).
Now, if you drive 100,000 miles in a three year period and want to have the full 220 mile range, yes, you would need to replace the battery by the end of the third year.