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View Poll Results: Do you have a pension?
Government Pension 166 29.23%
Corporate Pension 195 34.33%
No pension, just SS & savings 207 36.44%
Voters: 568. You may not vote on this poll

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Old 06-02-2021, 05:09 PM   #261
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Ok, but the point I am making is somewhat different, although I realize the poll does not provide enough information to draw solid conclusions. But it *suggests* workers who do not draw pensions are far less likely to be able to retire early.
Iíll rephrase. On average, if person A draws two cards (investments and SS) and person B draws three cards (investments, SS, and pension), person A will usually lose.

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Old 06-02-2021, 05:16 PM   #262
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Regarding WEP and state/local pensions. If an individual is a safety employee, and has not contributed to SS for 30 years or more, SS gets cut by 5%/year for each year less than 30. The contribution to SS must fall under the criteria of 'substantial earnings'. There is a minimum $ amount per year (inflation adjusted) that a person must make for the year to count. Can't just get quarters to just get quarters in on the cheap. This was how it was explained to me by the SSA.
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Old 06-02-2021, 05:29 PM   #263
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Iíll rephrase. On average, if person A draws two cards (investments and SS) and person B draws three cards (investments, SS, and pension), person A will usually lose.

Heh, heh, sort of like that saying "All else being equal - but, of course, it never is."

I do see your point.
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Old 06-03-2021, 09:37 AM   #264
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I believe the bottom line is that those who are prudent managers of their financial affairs, regardless of their income, will prepare and save as best they can for their retirement. Pension or no pension.

Those who are not prudent may spend every dime and more that comes their way, regardless of their income level prior to retirement. And find themselves full of envy for others who have been prudent, who may have afforded to retire early, or those fortunate enough to have pensions. Nor is it about being 'lucky'

Pensions are not some sort of give away or lottery. They are part of a persons deferred remuneration. Often those in the public sector make less take home than those in the private sector. There is a reason.....part of that difference is attributable to pension participation.
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Old 06-03-2021, 11:29 AM   #265
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Ok. As long as itís not because the end is near...
I live every day as if it is my last
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Old 06-03-2021, 11:35 AM   #266
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No pension. I qualified for one from my first employer from 1988 to 1998. A laughably small amount. I rolled it over into my IRA. The medical organization was bought out x 2 after I left. I don't trust corporations. I am happy to be on my own and responsible for my financial future.
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Old 06-03-2021, 12:03 PM   #267
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I believe the bottom line is that those who are prudent managers of their financial affairs, regardless of their income, will prepare and save as best they can for their retirement. Pension or no pension.

Those who are not prudent may spend every dime and more that comes their way, regardless of their income level prior to retirement. And find themselves full of envy for others who have been prudent, who may have afforded to retire early, or those fortunate enough to have pensions. Nor is it about being 'lucky'

Pensions are not some sort of give away or lottery. They are part of a persons deferred remuneration. Often those in the public sector make less take home than those in the private sector. There is a reason.....part of that difference is attributable to pension participation.
I have a federal pension and a Cal-Pers pension. I contribute between 6 to 9% of my salary for my pensions. Pensions are not free and they are like a mandatory 401k retirement account which people contribute part of their salary and sometimes the company provides some matching funds. You are correct in saying people in the public sector makes less take home pay than the private sector. SS is the same way. People contribute into SS and they reap some SS benefits. People who do not have a pension should plan for their retirement by putting part of their salary into their own retirement account. I do not feel sorry for the people who spend every dime they make and then they envy their neighbors who have a pension. Those same people do not realize that people with pensions already contributed part of their salary toward that pension and there is nothing to prevent them from contributing part of their salary toward a retirement plan.
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Old 06-03-2021, 06:06 PM   #268
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I believe the bottom line is that those who are prudent managers of their financial affairs, regardless of their income, will prepare and save as best they can for their retirement. Pension or no pension.

Those who are not prudent may spend every dime and more that comes their way, regardless of their income level prior to retirement. And find themselves full of envy for others who have been prudent, who may have afforded to retire early, or those fortunate enough to have pensions. Nor is it about being 'lucky'

Pensions are not some sort of give away or lottery. They are part of a persons deferred remuneration. Often those in the public sector make less take home than those in the private sector. There is a reason.....part of that difference is attributable to pension participation.
Very well said.
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Old 06-03-2021, 08:05 PM   #269
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Those who are not prudent may spend every dime and more that comes their way, regardless of their income level prior to retirement. And find themselves full of envy for others who have been prudent, who may have afforded to retire early, or those fortunate enough to have pensions. Nor is it about being 'lucky'
I've mentioned my good buddy from w*rk. Though our assignments were different (he was hourly, I was professional) we made about the same/year. HIS DW made 2 or 3 times as much as my DW. HE got to retire YEARS earlier with a nice package. All his w*rking life AND retirement, buddy owned every toy out there - boats, cars, lake houses, RVs, motorcycles, etc.

I eventually retired with a good stash and roughly same pension as buddy. he took his SS early but it wouldn't have been a lot less than mine (except for the reduction due to taking it early.) His wife made enough to take SS on her own earnings. Buddy is currently half a mil in debt at 76. Close as buddy and I are, his envy occasionally shows through. I let it slip once how much my condo was worth. Buddy went through in detail what steps HE would take if he owned a paid-off asset such as my condo. NO, he wouldn't pay off his $500K debt. He'd cash-out mortgage (my) condo, buy a racing engine for his Camaro (and now Vette), upgrade his mortgaged-to-the-hilt house, buy a motorcycle, etc. etc.

Some never change, but YMMV.
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Old 06-04-2021, 12:36 AM   #270
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People that live for today, often assume there is no long term tomorrow. (Or just don’t care) As long as they drop dead before tomorrow catches up with them, who’s to say who had more fun? I don’t condone it, but I’ve seen it go both ways, especially for people that are betting on a short life and win that bet.

I know it is apples and oranges, but I have $440k in debt but it is the 2.5% mortgage on my $800k house. Since that $2k/mo payment is less than 25% of my fixed income (not including investment income or paid off RE), that works fine for me. I don’t own a bunch of depreciating toys, however.
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Old 06-04-2021, 03:48 PM   #271
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People that live for today, often assume there is no long term tomorrow. (Or just donít care) As long as they drop dead before tomorrow catches up with them, whoís to say who had more fun? I donít condone it, but Iíve seen it go both ways, especially for people that are betting on a short life and win that bet.

I know it is apples and oranges, but I have $440k in debt but it is the 2.5% mortgage on my $800k house. Since that $2k/mo payment is less than 25% of my fixed income (not including investment income or paid off RE), that works fine for me. I donít own a bunch of depreciating toys, however.
We all agree here that there is "good" and "bad" debt. My buddy has had both, but manages to turn "good" debt into "bad" to his own detriment. I agree that he can do what he wants and live as he desires. There was a time I would have faulted him strictly on the basis that he could end up leaving his DW in a bad fix if he goes first. BUT, she's a spendthrift as much as he is. She shops compulsively, buys knick knacks for the house, clothes for the 40+ year old kids and 20 year old grand kids.

He managed to get rid of a lot of debt by essentially saying "I'll 'commit' bankruptcy or you can forgive much of my debt." I think he used one of those "services." His big worry: "It'll ruin my credit!" Well, duh! Odd thing, he's back up to the same number of credit cards he had at the height of his folly. AND, between he and DW, they're all pretty much maxed out. Some don't learn - even though they've been "schooled." YMMV
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Old 06-05-2021, 04:24 PM   #272
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The good news is that the spendthrifts don't come here or don't stay.

ISTR one lawyer called us The Lumpen Slums of Cyberspace before leaving. I bet he still has debt!
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Old 06-05-2021, 04:26 PM   #273
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What if you live beyond 112?
i will write about it for pin money!
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Old 06-05-2021, 08:29 PM   #274
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Having a "living income" amount pension is a game changer.

I have always ignored my company pension expecting it to not be there.
My pension is now fully funded and my pension payment will drop every month once I pull the plug and retire.

With a "living income" monthly pension check in retirement your portfolio asset allocation completely becomes a non-issue.
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Old 06-05-2021, 08:43 PM   #275
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None- not even a little one. My husband either. I have pension envy!
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Old 06-07-2021, 05:34 AM   #276
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Having a "living income" amount pension is a game changer.

I have always ignored my company pension expecting it to not be there.
My pension is now fully funded and my pension payment will drop every month once I pull the plug and retire.

With a "living income" monthly pension check in retirement your portfolio asset allocation completely becomes a non-issue.
I agree, my only problem is I still don't trust it at this point. I've only been "retired" and receiving pension for 2 1/2 years while I'm w*rking as a govvie to pad the emergency and fun money banks. My pension and disability is easily enough for my wife and I to live on for good, but I'm addicted to the golden handcuffs. We've discussed OMY until Dec 2023. By then, I'll be eligible for another small pension (at age 62) and we should have plenty of cushion saved up and invested.
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Old 06-07-2021, 07:43 AM   #277
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I am a FERS federal pension and DW is state pension.

Mine FERS is 1700/month take home after Health INS, plus I took SS at 62 for another 1900

DW state is an amazing 7100/month after Tax and Healthcare, We'll wait on hers SS FRA for another 2900

It's amazing how we bring MUCH more then we did while working with the maxing of our IRA's, SS deducting's etc ;-)))
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Old 06-13-2021, 01:41 AM   #278
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We do have a small FERS pension - currently worth about $20,000/yr if I deferred it to age 62. If I work to first retirement age (57), I estimate the pension to be close to $38,000/ yr. For FERS, if you work 20 or more years, you are able to collect at aged 60 upon deferral instead of 62. -- a nice gain...I will be at 20 years in 2022.

I have wrestled with the idea of retiring early, but for FERS folks, unless in a special or changed situation with organizations and rules, you forego medical benefits if you retire early before age 57 - you end up having to totally rely on covered-California. At the moment this is just too risky in the long-term - period of time later - in our late 60s, hopefully 70s, 80s..

I'm so tempted to try to retire much earlier, but I keep coming back to healthcare as a wild-card - and the unsettling notion of that. My wife and I just don't have enough savings to make me feel completely comfortable with retiring at 45. If the Federal Government gives early-outs with medical - would be on it immediately though.
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Old 06-13-2021, 02:05 AM   #279
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We do have a small FERS pension - currently worth about $20,000/yr if I deferred it to age 62. If I work to first retirement age (57), I estimate the pension to be close to $38,000/ yr. For FERS, if you work 20 or more years, you are able to collect at aged 60 upon deferral instead of 62. -- a nice gain...I will be at 20 years in 2022.

I have wrestled with the idea of retiring early, but for FERS folks, unless in a special or changed situation with organizations and rules, you forego medical benefits if you retire early before age 57 - you end up having to totally rely on covered-California. At the moment this is just too risky in the long-term - period of time later - in our late 60s, hopefully 70s, 80s..

I'm so tempted to try to retire much earlier, but I keep coming back to healthcare as a wild-card - and the unsettling notion of that. My wife and I just don't have enough savings to make me feel completely comfortable with retiring at 45. If the Federal Government gives early-outs with medical - would be on it immediately though.
Quite honestly, I was more concerned about medical "supplement" than pension. It wasn't so much the money involved - it was that I wanted a "guarantee" that I would HAVE healthcare. Back about 23 years ago when I "achieved" my "guarantee" I felt FI (and I DID have the guarantee of a pension also.) Explained many times elsewhere, I stayed 7 more years so my pension was significantly larger (still not "big").

I can't suggest you stay or go, but I agree that health care CAN BE a huge issue. Supposedly, now that we have the ACA, you don't have to worry about health care. If it were me, I'd still worry about health care at your age but YMMV.
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Old 06-13-2021, 04:51 AM   #280
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Even with the ACA, retiree health care can be a tremendous financial benefit. In my case, the avoided health care premium is almost twice as valuable to me as the actual pension.
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