Poll:How many here have a defined benefit pension?

[punkinhead]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Magus It’s a thread asking if people have a pension, not a thread about pension. Nuanced but important difference. Why would folks without a pension like myself be less likely to respond in your mind? At any rate, from other links posted to earlier threads here, not the only time with similar results.

It would be like having a poll asking people if they have a sailboat. People with sailboats will reply because they want to talk about their sailboats. Most people without sailboats are just going to scroll past. The discussion is interesting but the poll is meaningless because the participants self-select.

[Magus]

Quote:

Originally Posted by punkinhead It would be like having a poll asking people if they have a sailboat. People with sailboats will reply because they want to talk about their sailboats. Most people without sailboats are just going to scroll past. The discussion is interesting but the poll is meaningless because the participants self-select.

I think this is quite a bit different than a sailboat which would have little interest and relevance for most folks unless it was a boat forum we were on, but agree there is still some self selection bias. I think most early and potentially early retirees even without pensions like myself are still interest in pensions to some degree, if nothing else to consider the upside or not of buying one (annuity) or just to have a degree of self pity for not having one. That said, from what I've seen on this forum for people's comments on pensions even in threads not related to pensions, it does seem this forum has a disproportional amount of pension holders.

[ncbill]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Magus Interesting that a strong majority here have pensions while only about 20% of retirees in the US as a whole have a pension at all. Perhaps the key to early retirement for most is really a pension. If that is the case, bodes poorly for folks in the future being able to retire early as pension accessibility continues to decline.

COLA pension plus free retiree health care (they both complained when they turned 65 and had to start paying Part B premiums) allowed my in-laws to retire nearly 30 years ago with a paid-off home but total savings i'd guess under $50,000 at the time.

They took SS at age 62 so they could spend it on travel while still able...now with both in their 80s they aren't traveling out of town anymore.

[wrigley]

Quote:

Originally Posted by SnowballCamper This isn't the case. Here is the link for the COLA calculation for military pensions. Regular pay increases certainly depend on congress each year. However the cola is just arithmetic. https://militarypay.defense.gov/Pay/Retirement/cola/

Thanks for the info. I never realized it existed.

Mike

[G-Man]

Non-cola pension for my wife and I starting at age 62 (wife) and 60 (me).

[PandaBear]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Magus It’s a thread asking if people have a pension, not a thread about pension. Nuanced but important difference. Why would folks without a pension like myself be less likely to respond in your mind? At any rate, from other links posted to earlier threads here, not the only time with similar results.

Well, yes, but I think it still draws more people who do have pensions.

If the question was asking if people have done as Roth Conversion, I’d probably scroll by, since I haven’t. I wouldn’t join the thread and post, “no”.

Just another viewpoint.

[exnavynuke]

I didn't get a chance to answer poll (it's closed) but I have VA disability, which is COLA adjusted, so pretty much the same thing.

[eytonxav]

No pension for me, just SS, although DW has a very small non-cola pension.

[ERD50]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Magus Quote: Originally Posted by punkinhead View Post It would be like having a poll asking people if they have a sailboat. People with sailboats will reply because they want to talk about their sailboats. Most people without sailboats are just going to scroll past. The discussion is interesting but the poll is meaningless because the participants self-select. I think this is quite a bit different than a sailboat which would have little interest and relevance for most folks unless it was a boat forum we were on, but agree there is still some self selection bias. I think most early and potentially early retirees even without pensions like myself are still interest in pensions to some degree, if nothing else to consider the upside or not of buying one (annuity) or just to have a degree of self pity for not having one. That said, from what I've seen on this forum for people's comments on pensions even in threads not related to pensions, it does seem this forum has a disproportional amount of pension holders.

Regardless, it's a self selected poll, so no one really knows if it represents a typical cross section or not. You can make all sorts of assumptions, but who knows? You really can't say anything meaningful about the numbers.

I saw it, will have a non-COLA pension, DW has a cola-lite-lite small pension. I don't answer the poll for many reasons. The foremost being that it is self-selected, so therefore pretty meaningless, and people will try to attach meaning to it. I don't want to partake in that. And I don't see the point. It's like those threads about "How much do you spend on x,y,z?" What's it matter - we are different people, different wants/needs/resources.

It would be interesting if it could be done blind, but what would the responses be if the thread was titled "POLL: How many here won't have any pension at all?" I would not be surprised if that attracted a different group, with a different result.

Now, it could be representative, but we have no way to know that. IMO, just stick to the discussions, there may be some value there.

-ERD50

[Magus]

Quote:

Originally Posted by ERD50 Regardless, it's a self selected poll, so no one really knows if it represents a typical cross section or not. You can make all sorts of assumptions, but who knows? You really can't say anything meaningful about the numbers. I saw it, will have a non-COLA pension, DW has a cola-lite-lite small pension. I don't answer the poll for many reasons. The foremost being that it is self-selected, so therefore pretty meaningless, and people will try to attach meaning to it. I don't want to partake in that. And I don't see the point. It's like those threads about "How much do you spend on x,y,z?" What's it matter - we are different people, different wants/needs/resources. It would be interesting if it could be done blind, but what would the responses be if the thread was titled "POLL: How many here won't have any pension at all?" I would not be surprised if that attracted a different group, with a different result. Now, it could be representative, but we have no way to know that. IMO, just stick to the discussions, there may be some value there. -ERD50

The entire point of the thread is to poll folks here if they have a pension to get an idea. If you don't think its remotely representative of the forum, why bother coming on the thread at all? Me directly discussing the implications of the poll here, other polls here, and a ton of comments I've read throughout the forum all indicate a very high take rate of pensions on this site. You may not want to take any inferences from that, but I can and will, scientific poll or not. It's actually more relevant to the thread at hand than most of the discussion to this point since that's literally what the post was for but you do you.

[ERD50]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Magus The entire point of the thread is to poll folks here if they have a pension to get an idea. If you don't think its remotely representative of the forum, why bother coming on the thread at all? Me directly discussing the implications of the poll here, other polls here, and a ton of comments I've read throughout the forum all indicate a very high take rate of pensions on this site. You may not want to take any inferences from that, but I can and will, scientific poll or not. It's actually more relevant to the thread at hand than most of the discussion to this point since that's literally what the post was for but you do you.

Relax. I come to the thread to see if there's anything to learn from, that's OK isn't it?

And when I see people comment on the numbers as if they are a representative sample, I point out that we can't know that about a self-selected poll (and that's the case for any poll like this on any subject, I'm not picking on you). Some people may not realize that. I don't know what other people know or don't know.

-ERD50

[Mulligan]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Magus Interesting that a strong majority here have pensions while only about 20% of retirees in the US as a whole have a pension at all. Perhaps the key to early retirement for most is really a pension. If that is the case, bodes poorly for folks in the future being able to retire early as pension accessibility continues to decline.

I suspect it helps for an early retirement as a general rule. But likely for several reasons that may or may not mean a better early retirement. One reason is when you hit the number it doesnt serve as a motivator to continue if you dont really want to work any more. And for good pensions, it protects to some degree of longevity risk or worry about poor investing skills or returns which are a concern for many struggling to pull the retirement trigger.
Its also flat easier mentally for many to spend a monthly check than to draw down a nest egg. I could resonate with that. I cant stand the thought of spending my modest nest egg, even though I wont ever need any of it because of my pension. If I was retiring off a 401k it would be hard for me I suspect to not fall into the “one more year” mode just to be safe.

[Magus]

Quote:

Originally Posted by ERD50 Relax. I come to the thread to see if there's anything to learn from, that's OK isn't it? And when I see people comment on the numbers as if they are a representative sample, I point out that we can't know that about a self-selected poll (and that's the case for any poll like this on any subject, I'm not picking on you). Some people may not realize that. I don't know what other people know or don't know. -ERD50

Extremely little on this website is going to be a representative sample or hard scientific fact, yet we all use it to take inference and apply to our situation. A poll on this site about a topic highly relevant to this site is a slightly more scientific approach than what we typically use here - anecdotes - (on this site and most of online). No - it's not the gold standard for statistical sampling but unless someone wants to pay Gallup, Pew or one of the other polling organizations to do so on this site, which I would hazard a guess has a probability of zero, it's the best we'll get, especially when combined that every other poll on this site, and significant amount of anecdotal comments I've seen on this site - including on the other thread trending on "how you got to retirement" - indicates pensions are significantly higher among folks here than the general retirement population. I would hazard a guess this site is as close as you can get for early retirement population again without paying Gallup etc so its not hard to take the small leap that having a guaranteed pension significantly increases your probability you'll retire early. In fact, it actually makes perfect sense.

[thepalmersinking]

Quote:

Originally Posted by almost there defined benefit pension defined benefit pension cola No pension (Not counting SS)

I do but I am not goi g to begin taking it for a few years because the monthly payout continues to grow until I begin withdrawals

[CardsFan]

I voted no pension, though I do have a mini-micro one of $105/month.

I never expected it. It just showed up. I'll take the dinner out once a month, but it does not factor in to anything.

[skyking1]

these no-cola pensions are the new boomer 'trickle down' economy, their value trickles down as inflation marches on.

[ERD50]

Quote:

Originally Posted by skyking1 these no-cola pensions are the new boomer 'trickle down' economy, their value trickles down as inflation marches on.

Sure, but how is a private company supposed to fund a COLA pension, when we can't know what inflation will be, let alone investment returns.

At least theoretically, w/o COLA, they could do a 100% funding into cash, and then the only variable is the average lifespan of their population. COLA throws another wrench in all that.


-ERD50

[skyking1]

I'm glad to have it. I'm also glad to have other sources as it loses relative value in the portfolio.

[almost there]

Quote:

Originally Posted by ERD50 Sure, but how is a private company supposed to fund a COLA pension, when we can't know what inflation will be, let alone investment returns. At least theoretically, w/o COLA, they could do a 100% funding into cash, and then the only variable is the average lifespan of their population. COLA throws another wrench in all that. -ERD50

Yep, most private Co's turned "defined benefit pensions" into "cash balance plans" as they were no longer sustainable with todays average lifespans.. Most were gone / converted by the mid 90's. And 401k's took over. Saving Co's 30%-50% in retirement costs.
Defined-Benefit Plan / Defined contribution (DC) plan
.

[MarieIG]

Quote:

Originally Posted by punkinhead It would be like having a poll asking people if they have a sailboat. People with sailboats will reply because they want to talk about their sailboats. Most people without sailboats are just going to scroll past. The discussion is interesting but the poll is meaningless because the participants self-select.

Yes, that occurred to me as well. Not about the sailboats, but the self selection, and the poll not necessarily representing a true percentage of members.