View Poll Results: When did you start taking SS or are planning to take SS?
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I'm 62 or older -- SS @ 62
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29 |
9.54% |
I'm 62 or older -- SS @ FRA
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41 |
13.49% |
I'm 62 or older -- SS @ 70
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45 |
14.80% |
I'm younger than 62 -- SS @ 62
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61 |
20.07% |
I'm younger than 62 -- SS @ FRA
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34 |
11.18% |
I'm younger than 62 -- SS @ 70
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60 |
19.74% |
Other (feel free to explain)
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34 |
11.18% |
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04-23-2018, 04:11 PM
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#81
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Give me a museum and I'll fill it. (Picasso) Give me a forum ...
Join Date: Jul 2008
Posts: 35,712
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 6miths
Yes on being Canadian and yes the Canada Pension Plan is very similar to Social Security. Taking it later means a greater monthly cheque. AFAIK the main differences are that the maximum payout for SS is higher than CPP for high income earners although the governments have been talking about increasing the amounts for the last few years for all incomes (with increased contributions of course) and the second difference is that the Plan is in good shape financially and never discussion about it not existing or reductions in payouts. The age range to start is 60 with full benefits at 65 increasing to a maximum at 70. There have been discussions about increasing the range by 2 years due to longer lifespans but hasn't happened yet. As well there are two other pension plans which are not contribution based - Old Age Security which starts at 65 and the Guaranteed Income Supplement which also starts at 65 for those with low incomes. The effect of the three plans is that poverty in old age is quite low with many low income individuals having a greater income in old age than they did in their working years.
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I recall having an exchange with Meadbh (who has left the forum) about Canadian CPP. As I recall, the payout is lower than USA's SS, but then the contribution is also lower.
__________________
"Old age is the most unexpected of all things that happen to a man" -- Leon Trotsky (1879-1940)
"Those Who Can Make You Believe Absurdities Can Make You Commit Atrocities" - Voltaire (1694-1778)
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04-24-2018, 11:15 AM
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#82
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Thinks s/he gets paid by the post
Join Date: Feb 2013
Location: Toronto
Posts: 3,320
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Quote:
Originally Posted by NW-Bound
I recall having an exchange with Meadbh (who has left the forum) about Canadian CPP. As I recall, the payout is lower than USA's SS, but then the contribution is also lower.
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Yes that's right. At the lower end I think the numbers are very similar but the maximum pensionable earnings is lower so if one is much above average income then there is no further increase in benefits (or contributions while working as you point out). Old Age Security (which is residence based and funded out of general tax revenues) is clawed back entirely by the time one has an annual income of about 107k for an individual. At that income it is hard to argue that one needs a subsidy from tax payers.
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04-24-2018, 11:23 AM
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#83
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Give me a museum and I'll fill it. (Picasso) Give me a forum ...
Join Date: Jun 2003
Location: Florida's First Coast
Posts: 7,665
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I wish people would stop referring to SS and other state pensions as Tax Payer funding. They are an insurance annuity that has been fully or partially paid for by the recipient, a Contract if you like with a maturity date (multiple maturities in the case of SS). If it is Partial then payouts are reduced accordingly.
__________________
"Never Argue With a Fool, Onlookers May Not Be Able To Tell the Difference." - Mark Twain
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04-24-2018, 11:50 AM
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#84
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Give me a museum and I'll fill it. (Picasso) Give me a forum ...
Join Date: Nov 2010
Location: Sarasota, FL & Vermont
Posts: 36,263
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Not sure what you are all exercised about... the word entitle only shows up once on this page prior to your post and in that case not in the context that you object to.
__________________
If something cannot endure laughter.... it cannot endure.
Patience is the art of concealing your impatience.
Slow and steady wins the race.
Retired Jan 2012 at age 56
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04-24-2018, 12:16 PM
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#85
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Give me a museum and I'll fill it. (Picasso) Give me a forum ...
Join Date: May 2008
Location: No fixed abode
Posts: 8,764
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Also, if SS isn't funded by tax payers, where do you think the money came/comes from?
__________________
"Good judgment comes from experience. Experience comes from bad judgement." - Anonymous (not Will Rogers or Sam Clemens)
DW and I - FIREd at 50 (7/06), living off assets
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04-24-2018, 12:21 PM
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#86
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Give me a museum and I'll fill it. (Picasso) Give me a forum ...
Join Date: Jun 2003
Location: Florida's First Coast
Posts: 7,665
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Quote:
Originally Posted by harley
Also, if SS isn't funded by tax payers, where do you think the money came/comes from?
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The money we all pay (Paid) into it for 30 odd years. If not why did we have to pay SS Taxes on our income all our lives.
__________________
"Never Argue With a Fool, Onlookers May Not Be Able To Tell the Difference." - Mark Twain
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04-24-2018, 12:23 PM
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#87
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Thinks s/he gets paid by the post
Join Date: Jun 2017
Location: Western NC
Posts: 4,607
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Voted "Younger than 62 - SS @ FRA"
My SS will be 1/2 of spouse's SS @ FRA (makes most sense for her to take SS @70)
I don't have enough retirement credits to be eligible for SS on my own record.
Since I spent...let's just say "well over a decade" taking care of an ill parent, which started not long after graduate school.
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04-24-2018, 12:26 PM
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#88
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Thinks s/he gets paid by the post
Join Date: Oct 2013
Location: Cholula
Posts: 1,595
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Quote:
Originally Posted by pb4uski
not sure what you are all exercised about
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exercise.png
__________________
“Before you criticize someone, walk a mile in their shoes. That way, you’ll be a mile from them, and you’ll have their shoes.” – Jack Handey
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04-24-2018, 12:27 PM
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#89
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Give me a museum and I'll fill it. (Picasso) Give me a forum ...
Join Date: May 2008
Location: No fixed abode
Posts: 8,764
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ShokWaveRider
I wish people would stop referring to SS and other state pensions as Tax Payer funding. They are an insurance annuity that has been fully or partially paid for by the recipient, a Contract if you like with a maturity date (multiple maturities in the case of SS). If it is Partial then payouts are reduced accordingly.
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ShokWaveRider
The money we all pay (Paid) into it for 30 odd years. If not why did we have to pay SS Taxes on our income all our lives.
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That just doesn't make any sense. Oh well, I'll refer to it any way I like, and you can do the same.
__________________
"Good judgment comes from experience. Experience comes from bad judgement." - Anonymous (not Will Rogers or Sam Clemens)
DW and I - FIREd at 50 (7/06), living off assets
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04-24-2018, 01:14 PM
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#90
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Thinks s/he gets paid by the post
Join Date: Apr 2011
Location: Madison
Posts: 1,337
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Age 65, DW 61. She will take at 62, me at 70. Her family has short longevity, me just the opposite.
__________________
Wild Bill shoulda taken more out of his IRA when he could have. . . .
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04-24-2018, 01:18 PM
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#91
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Give me a museum and I'll fill it. (Picasso) Give me a forum ...
Join Date: Nov 2010
Location: Sarasota, FL & Vermont
Posts: 36,263
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Quote:
Originally Posted by harley
That just doesn't make any sense. Oh well, I'll refer to it any way I like, and you can do the same.
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No, it does make sense. His point is that SS benefits are something that you have paid for, therefore dissimilar from food stamps, welfare, medicaid, etc which are traditional entitlement programs where eligible citizens receive benefits without necessarily having ever contributed.
__________________
If something cannot endure laughter.... it cannot endure.
Patience is the art of concealing your impatience.
Slow and steady wins the race.
Retired Jan 2012 at age 56
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04-24-2018, 01:19 PM
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#92
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Give me a museum and I'll fill it. (Picasso) Give me a forum ...
Join Date: Jun 2003
Location: Florida's First Coast
Posts: 7,665
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Quote:
Originally Posted by pb4uski
No, it does make sense. His point is that SS benefits are something that you have paid for, therefore dissimilar from food stamps, welfare, medicaid, etc which are traditional entitlement programs where eligible citizens receive benefits without necessarily having ever contributed.
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Thank you!
__________________
"Never Argue With a Fool, Onlookers May Not Be Able To Tell the Difference." - Mark Twain
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04-24-2018, 04:34 PM
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#93
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Thinks s/he gets paid by the post
Join Date: Feb 2013
Location: Toronto
Posts: 3,320
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Quote:
Originally Posted by pb4uski
No, it does make sense. His point is that SS benefits are something that you have paid for, therefore dissimilar from food stamps, welfare, medicaid, etc which are traditional entitlement programs where eligible citizens receive benefits without necessarily having ever contributed.
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Yes I think it makes sense too. Was my point about CPP in Canada versus Old Age Security (and Guaranteed Income Supplement - GIS). Like SS, CPP is paid into as you work by employee and employer deductions (payroll taxes) and thus due to workers based on these contributions (of course you could say that these workers are taxpayers). While OAS and GIS are paid for out of current general tax revenues and are not dependent on direct worker/employer contributions.
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Under 62, Retiring at 63-1/2, Claiming immediately
04-24-2018, 05:40 PM
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#94
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Recycles dryer sheets
Join Date: Jan 2018
Location: Ypsilanti
Posts: 142
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Under 62, Retiring at 63-1/2, Claiming immediately
In my mind it is not a question of whether we can or cannot support ourselves without SS. Rather it is a question of which investment will provide the greater future income and wealth increase.
The $2200 per month that I will likely receive from SS at age 63-1/2 is $2200 that I do not need to liquidate from other investments. Investments that provide greater than 8% growth or income each year.
Therefore I will leave my high return portfolio dollars invested and spend the lower return, early filing, SS dollars on life's essentials.
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04-24-2018, 06:06 PM
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#95
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Recycles dryer sheets
Join Date: Nov 2017
Location: -
Posts: 220
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Quote:
Originally Posted by pb4uski
No, it does make sense. His point is that SS benefits are something that you have paid for, therefore dissimilar from food stamps, welfare, medicaid, etc which are traditional entitlement programs where eligible citizens receive benefits without necessarily having ever contributed.
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In the 1937 Helvering v. Davis case, the U.S. Supreme Court stated that for Social Security "The proceeds of both the employee and employer taxes are to be paid into the Treasury like any other internal revenue generally, and are not earmarked in any way."
In the 1960 Fleming v. Nestor case, the court stated "To engraft upon the Social Security system a concept of ‘accrued property rights’ would deprive it of the flexibility and boldness in adjustment to ever changing conditions which it demands." And further stated "It is apparent that the non-contractual interest of an employee covered by the [Social Security] Act cannot be soundly analogized to that of the holder of an annuity, whose right to benefits is bottomed on his contractual premium payments."
These are the legal rulings of the highest court in the country. Hopefully simply stated facts are not verboten on this forum.
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04-24-2018, 06:18 PM
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#96
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Recycles dryer sheets
Join Date: Jan 2018
Location: Ypsilanti
Posts: 142
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Except....... SS benefits are highly formulaic based upon payments made each year and years of contribution. Thus making benefits received directly linked to the value of contributions made, and therefore not an entitlement.
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04-24-2018, 06:27 PM
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#97
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Give me a museum and I'll fill it. (Picasso) Give me a forum ...
Join Date: Nov 2010
Location: Sarasota, FL & Vermont
Posts: 36,263
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Cessna152
In the 1937 Helvering v. Davis case, the U.S. Supreme Court stated that for Social Security "The proceeds of both the employee and employer taxes are to be paid into the Treasury like any other internal revenue generally, and are not earmarked in any way."
In the 1960 Fleming v. Nestor case, the court stated "To engraft upon the Social Security system a concept of ‘accrued property rights’ would deprive it of the flexibility and boldness in adjustment to ever changing conditions which it demands." And further stated "It is apparent that the non-contractual interest of an employee covered by the [Social Security] Act cannot be soundly analogized to that of the holder of an annuity, whose right to benefits is bottomed on his contractual premium payments."
These are the legal rulings of the highest court in the country. Hopefully simply stated facts are not verboten on this forum.
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I suspect that there is a point that you are trying to make somewhere in that drivel.... why don't you make it?
__________________
If something cannot endure laughter.... it cannot endure.
Patience is the art of concealing your impatience.
Slow and steady wins the race.
Retired Jan 2012 at age 56
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04-24-2018, 08:12 PM
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#98
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Full time employment: Posting here.
Join Date: May 2014
Location: Lakewood
Posts: 919
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RunningBum
Other--younger than 62 so I'll wait and decide then, based on my current health, whether I think the stock market is high (defer SS and sell stock) or low (take SS, sell less stock), and any indications of change, especially if there might not be fair grandfathering.
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+1
__________________
Why be normal when you can be yourself?
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04-24-2018, 08:41 PM
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#99
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Recycles dryer sheets
Join Date: Nov 2017
Location: -
Posts: 220
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Quote:
That contrary to ShokWaveRider's claim, no contract was created by the formula linking an individual's SS benefits to their SS tax payments.
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04-24-2018, 08:52 PM
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#100
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Give me a museum and I'll fill it. (Picasso) Give me a forum ...
Join Date: Nov 2010
Location: Sarasota, FL & Vermont
Posts: 36,263
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Now that wasn't all that difficult, was it?
Perceptive glimpse of the obvious that there is no contractual claim or legal right to SS.
SWR didn't say that it was a contract.... "a contract if you like"... suggesting that it is similar to a contract.
__________________
If something cannot endure laughter.... it cannot endure.
Patience is the art of concealing your impatience.
Slow and steady wins the race.
Retired Jan 2012 at age 56
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