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View Poll Results: What is your usual vehicle buying habit?
PAY CASH for a NEW vehicle and drive it into the ground (not worried about resale of trade in value). 156 45.75%
FINANCE a NEW vehicle and drive it into the ground (not worried about resale of trade in value). 32 9.38%
PAY CASH for a NEW vehicle, but TRADE every few years while it still has value. 32 9.38%
FINANCE a NEW vehicle, but trade every few years while it still has value. 4 1.17%
PAY CASH for only USED vehicles because I want someone else to take the big depreciation. 101 29.62%
FINANCE only USED vehicles because I want someone else to take the big depreciation. 11 3.23%
I LEASE vehicles (either personal or through a business). 5 1.47%
I only purchase my cars at the Pebble Beach Concours d'Elegance, and my CPA worries about the details. 0 0%
Voters: 341. You may not vote on this poll

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Old 01-27-2021, 09:36 AM   #181
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Thanks. I’d guess one has to find a way to buy consistently at a wholesale price. I see these ratings on Auto Trader.com of “Good Price” and “Great Price” and I wonder if there is a worthwhile arbitrage play possible? It’s probably a lot of hassle to trade, insure, register, then sell so, so far, I’ve talked myself into just leaving my money in stocks.
Arbitrage? Sure. Virtually every buyer at every wholesale auction is an arbitrageur --- aka used car dealer.

Years ago I did a little of this, looking for "special" cars in the newspaper classifieds. I recall owning and flipping a '66 Shelby GT350 Mustang, a '68 GT500 KR Convert, and a Jensen Interceptor. I made money but it was more of an amusement for the reasons you cite.
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Old 01-27-2021, 09:45 AM   #182
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Even a decent gain gets wiped out from sales tax here.
In at least some states, you can get a dealer license and avoid that. I know several who have done that, and it also gives you the ability to get cars yourself from Manheim etc. I don't know what the license requirements are and how much funny business those several "dealers" have engaged in to meet them.
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Old 01-27-2021, 10:12 AM   #183
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In at least some states, you can get a dealer license and avoid that. I know several who have done that, and it also gives you the ability to get cars yourself from Manheim etc. I don't know what the license requirements are and how much funny business those several "dealers" have engaged in to meet them.
In our state the barrier to entry is that a dealer must have a place of business & can't deal out of his house.
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Old 01-27-2021, 10:15 AM   #184
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Thanks. I’d guess one has to find a way to buy consistently at a wholesale price. I see these ratings on Auto Trader.com of “Good Price” and “Great Price” and I wonder if there is a worthwhile arbitrage play possible? It’s probably a lot of hassle to trade, insure, register, then sell so, so far, I’ve talked myself into just leaving my money in stocks.
There is plenty of money in stocks and I won't take it with me to grave, I enjoy cars and it is my hobby, an expensive one, but I enjoy the whole experience of research buy, sell and then trade in. I sold my 2015 Porsche 911GTS ($98K) to private party, lost $12k but enjoyed using it for almost 2 years.
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Old 01-27-2021, 03:39 PM   #185
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However anyone wants to prioritize their money for enjoyment is A-OK with me.
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Old 01-27-2021, 07:04 PM   #186
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This thread has got me to thinking. A number of manufacturers offer bumper-to-bumper warranties that exceed the normal 3/36 lease term.

Would it be wise to buy a one of these vehicles with a longer bumper-to-bumper warranty off-lease?... I'd still have at least a year and 14k miles of manufacturer bumper-to-bumper warranty left and in many cases 2 years/24k miles and in the case of 2018/2019 VWs 3 years and 36k miles.

BrandBumper-to-BumperPowertrain
Hyundai5/60,00010/100,000
Genesis5/60,00010/100,000
Mitsubishi5/60,00010/100,000
Kia5/60,00010/100,000
Jaguar5/60,0005/60,000
Infiniti4/60,0006/70,000
Tesla4/50,0008/150,000
Lincoln4/50,0006/70,000
Cadillac4/50,0006/70,000
Lexus4/50,0006/70,000
Acura4/50,0006/70,000
Audi4/50,0004/50,000
BMW4/50,0004/50,000
Volkswagen4/50,0004/50,000
Mini4/50,0004/50,000
Fiat4/50,0004/50,000
Volvo4/50,0004/50,000
Porsche4/50,0004/50,000
Land Rover4/50,0004/50,000
Alfa Romeo4/50,0004/50,000
Mercedes4/50,0004/50,000
Buick3/36,0005/60,000
Chevrolet3/36,0005/60,000
GMC3/36,0005/60,000
Chrysler3/36,0005/60,000
Dodge3/36,0005/60,000
Ram3/36,0005/60,000
Ford3/36,0005/60,000
Jeep3/36,0005/60,000
Honda3/36,0005/60,000
Mazda3/36,0005/60,000
Nissan3/36,0005/60,000
Subaru3/36,0005/60,000
Toyota3/36,0005/60,000

https://www.motor1.com/reviews/39547...-car-warranty/
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Old 01-27-2021, 07:19 PM   #187
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I have not had that many cars in my lifetime because I usually buy them financed and new (used in my salad days) and drive them into the ground. Three years ago, I bought my first car with cash (not counting that VW Bug I paid $800 for in 1971). Am now considering whether to drive it for several more years or trade it in for a new car. I take long road trips alone out west and worry about car trouble in the middle of nowhere. While cars today are supposed to be better, I had lots of sensor problems with my previous car starting about 60K miles.
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Old 01-27-2021, 08:07 PM   #188
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Three years ago, I bought my first car with cash (not counting that VW Bug I paid $800 for in 1971). Am now considering whether to drive it for several more years or trade it in for a new car. I take long road trips alone out west and worry about car trouble in the middle of nowhere. While cars today are supposed to be better, I had lots of sensor problems with my previous car starting about 60K miles.
My experience has been that a car that has been reliable will normally stay that way, at least to 100-120K miles and 8 years or so.

We are also in a very transitional period in car design, similar to the beginnng of emissions controls in the '70s, with a lot of new technologies coming in quickly. An example is very small engines with turbochargers; an almost 4000 pound vehicle with a 1.5 liter engine would have been shocking 15 years ago. Various driving assistance technology also adds complexity.

In short, a new vehicle built right now may not be more reliable than a 3 year old car.
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Old 01-27-2021, 09:06 PM   #189
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In short, a new vehicle built right now may not be more reliable than a 3 year old car.
Agree. In a similar vein, I bought my pickup because it was at the end of a model run. Said another way, you don't want to buy the first year model of a significant change in a vehicle. I feel my truck should be pretty reliable. It was a model run of 4 years (2014-2018) so they should have had most of the bugs worked out by then.

Also, being at the end of the model, they were running very good deals. That got my attention as I was not really looking for a vehicle at the time. But, when I saw the deals they were running, I went in and checked it out. I said to myself if I could get the truck I wanted for the price they were advertising, I'd buy it. They met the price and I traded my car for a truck. Loving it!
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Old 01-27-2021, 10:01 PM   #190
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My experience has been that a car that has been reliable will normally stay that way, at least to 100-120K miles and 8 years or so.

We are also in a very transitional period in car design, similar to the beginnng of emissions controls in the '70s, with a lot of new technologies coming in quickly. An example is very small engines with turbochargers; an almost 4000 pound vehicle with a 1.5 liter engine would have been shocking 15 years ago. Various driving assistance technology also adds complexity.

In short, a new vehicle built right now may not be more reliable than a 3 year old car.
When the time comes to get my next used car, I will avoid two things: Turbochargers and Infotainment systems. Both have had significant issues and cost a lot to fix. YMMV
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Old 01-27-2021, 10:18 PM   #191
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I buy 2 to 4 year old used cars that have some factory warranty remaining. Let the first buyers take the huge depreciation hit, then I take advantage of the discount on a reliable car and run it into the ground. Latest buy 18 months ago was a 2016 Hyundai Genesis with 31k miles on it and 18 months and beaucoup miles of factory warranty remaining. Bought it online from Vroom. Car had been a Hyundai leased car, and had been regularly serviced at one dealership, and even had a new set of tires on it when bought from Vroom. I even emailed the GM of the Hyundai dealership where the car was turned in at end of lease and asked for their service department records. He forwarded my email to his service manager, and voila--I got copies of all the service records for my own files. Sometimes a bold longshot pays off. I knew more about this car I bought remotely than any used car I ever bought before in 50 years of car buying!
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Old 01-28-2021, 08:26 AM   #192
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We've had new and used cars and motorcycles. Said pay cash for used in survey as number slightly higher. New were financed but barely, made a few payments then paid off loan.

Older higher mileage cars when young and new when wife had to drive far to work. Also we were driving often 5-6hr to see family and did driving vacations.

When the new job was closer went with older long lived cars (toyota). But long driving vacations (12+hours) had become rental car or flight and a rental.

Cars are a huge waste right now. One car has had about 50miles in last 6 months.. gets driven 30min every week or two just to keep batter charged.
Other car may have a little more use but can't be more than 100 mi a month.

Kind of want a hybrid for emotional smugness but really can't justify a different car even if I won the lottery as cars just get dinged in the parking lots anyway.
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Old 01-28-2021, 08:38 AM   #193
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Had to vote number 1. Last one I bought was a Tacoma and you dam near pay almost the price of a new one that is a few years old with higher miles. These things hold their value and we drive them for a long as we can. Its a 2005 and I put 140k miles on it so far. I do 90% of the work on it myself.

Before this I paid cash for a couple cheaper cars and drove them to the ground.
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Old 01-28-2021, 08:45 AM   #194
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Had to vote number 1. Last one I bought was a Tacoma and you dam near pay almost the price of a new one that is a few years old with higher miles. These things hold their value and we drive them for a long as we can. Its a 2005 and I put 140k miles on it so far. I do 90% of the work on it myself.

Before this I paid cash for a couple cheaper cars and drove them to the ground.

Yes I have a 2009 Tacoma TRD off road pkg that I bought new in April of 2009 for $27500.
It has 118,000 miles on it and still rides like new. KBB says it is still worth 14-15 k. Crazy but I hope to drive it another 8-10 years.
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Old 01-28-2021, 08:49 AM   #195
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#5, Have never spent more than 6K on a used vehicle. If we do drive or travel on a long trip, say any thing over about 300 miles 1 way, we just rent a new vehicle from Avis or Hertz or some other rental place
We do exactly the same thing...save our cars for local driving and rent cars for long trips. We'd rather our own cars break down - if they are going to! - in our own area. We had hubby's truck break down on us when it was only a couple of years old - transmission - on a long drive to see his daughter, leaving us stranded in a small town over the weekend waiting for the shop to open up. If something had happened with a rental, we'd have gotten another car and we'd be on our way. Since we both drive (now older) pickups (we are normally very frugal, but this is a weakness - we can't help it - we love our trucks!), renting a car for long drives gets us much better gas milage, too.
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Old 01-28-2021, 08:59 AM   #196
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Yes I have a 2009 Tacoma TRD off road pkg that I bought new in April of 2009 for $27500.
It has 118,000 miles on it and still rides like new. KBB says it is still worth 14-15 k. Crazy but I hope to drive it another 8-10 years.
I think I was about $21500 with offroad package. Once after warranty, lifted it, bigger tires, lots of offroad accessories. About 120k started having issues with suspension parts, but they wear out even faster with the modified suspension.
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Old 01-28-2021, 09:53 AM   #197
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Yes I have a 2009 Tacoma TRD off road pkg that I bought new in April of 2009 for $27500.
It has 118,000 miles on it and still rides like new. KBB says it is still worth 14-15 k. Crazy but I hope to drive it another 8-10 years.
Toyotas are like that. They last forever and keep their value well. My "new" truck is a 2006 Tundra. I got a steal on it at $8000 with 136,000 miles and all of the maintenance records. It's been used, but no dents - a few scratches here and there. No rust. Needed new tires, and I did the brakes (they were not too bad, but I figured I'd rather take care of it all now rather than later) and a new condenser, and that's it. I just love that truck. I expect to keep it the rest of my life - well, as long as I can climb into it, anyway (smile!)
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Old 01-28-2021, 10:23 AM   #198
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Had to vote number 1. Last one I bought was a Tacoma and you dam near pay almost the price of a new one that is a few years old with higher miles. These things hold their value and we drive them for a long as we can. Its a 2005 and I put 140k miles on it so far. I do 90% of the work on it myself.

Before this I paid cash for a couple cheaper cars and drove them to the ground.
I'm buying out a leased Taco at end of lease this summer...normally the residual would be too high to warrant but COVID has driven used vehicles to such crazy valuations there's no point in trying to find a used one.
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Old 01-28-2021, 10:55 AM   #199
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I agree that Tesla leasing numbers are terrible deals. OTOH, the Nissan Leaf has very good leasing available. Which is weird, since Teslas (esp Model 3 and presumably the Y) have strong resale value while the Leaf has terrible.
It's not weird, it makes perfect sense. Nissan wants to move the Leaf's. Tesla knows they can sell as many Model 3's as they can make so they have no incentive to provide favorable leasing terms. They have no incentive to lease unless the terms are favorable to Tesla - they would rather have the cash up-front so they can re-invest it in increased production of batteries and cars. In this case, the outright purchase (of a Tesla) is a much better deal than a lease.

It's not easy moving Leaf's anymore when they cost more than a Model 3 for comparable trim levels. The Tesla Model 3 is bigger, faster, handles better, has longer range, is safer, has far more useful features, much better sounding stereo, better seats, bigger display, better brakes, better steering and driving dynamics, better security, better resale value and costs less. It also comes with the Tesla Supercharging network if you like to make interstate trips. It puts all other charging networks to shame.

Is it any wonder Nissan wants to move their Leaf's any way they can? You can also get substantial discounts off the Leaf's MSRP for outright purchase but, even with big discounts, the Model 3 is the much better deal. But it feels weird comparing a Nissan Leaf to a Tesla Model 3. The only thing that puts them in the same class is the price and that neither one have a gasoline engine.
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Old 01-28-2021, 03:29 PM   #200
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When the time comes to get my next used car, I will avoid two things: Turbochargers and Infotainment systems. Both have had significant issues and cost a lot to fix. YMMV
Infotainment systems are OK when they can be replaced with aftermarket systems if they fail. Infotainment systems that incorporate essential vehicle functions like heat and defrost on their touchscreens, locking in exact replacement from the manufacturer, definitely aren't OK.
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