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View Poll Results: What is your usual vehicle buying habit?
PAY CASH for a NEW vehicle and drive it into the ground (not worried about resale of trade in value). 156 45.75%
FINANCE a NEW vehicle and drive it into the ground (not worried about resale of trade in value). 32 9.38%
PAY CASH for a NEW vehicle, but TRADE every few years while it still has value. 32 9.38%
FINANCE a NEW vehicle, but trade every few years while it still has value. 4 1.17%
PAY CASH for only USED vehicles because I want someone else to take the big depreciation. 101 29.62%
FINANCE only USED vehicles because I want someone else to take the big depreciation. 11 3.23%
I LEASE vehicles (either personal or through a business). 5 1.47%
I only purchase my cars at the Pebble Beach Concours d'Elegance, and my CPA worries about the details. 0 0%
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Old 02-05-2021, 10:20 PM   #221
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Originally Posted by RetiredAtThirty-eight View Post
There is a natural tendency for some older people to resist change, they tend to want things to stay the same.

But younger people (and more adaptive older people) are not as set in their ways and will readily adopt anything that is easier to use or demonstrably better. In other words, those who don't want change do not prevent progress from happening. There were people who strenuously argued against the automobile, who refused to make the transition from horse to automobile and there are still people who refuse to use a computer.

And that's OK. These people will not hold back progress by refusing to adopt it. True progress never fails because most people will adopt something if it is demonstrably better. There were a lot of people when the first iPhone was revealed, who swore on their mother's grave they would never use a phone that didn't have physical buttons.

Most of them are now using phones without physical buttons.

I have to say, after many years reading and posting in this forum, this one of the most insightful and compelling posts that I have seen hands down. #nailedit
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Old 02-05-2021, 11:11 PM   #222
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Originally Posted by 2017ish View Post
A new tranny at 80,000 miles?!? Surely this wasn't within the last decade? That's abysmal. (Had to rewrite this to avoid obscenities!)

Never having been willing to pay the premium, my impression had been that Volvo makes really good cars. But my expectation is minimum 200,000 miles before total repair bills start to be noticeable (Honda and Toyota).

7k at 80,000 miles conjures up images of lemon laws and class actions.
Unfortunately, the only part of my 2000 Volvo S80 T-6 that was made by General Motors was the transmission! I'm not sure who made the twin turbo's, maybe made in Japan? The car was generally reliable, other than the two big failures and the plug on coils also needing replacement.

A certain percentage of all transmissions and turbo's fail early. I was just unlucky that it happened after the warranty had expired. Lemon laws are different for every state that has them but I've never heard of one that applied to a car out of warranty! Class action lawsuits only apply to early failures that are excessively common.

The bottom line is if the part is out of warranty that's just a risk the owner takes when they buy a car powered by controlled explosions of fuel and air. Both failures were probably due to high temperatures these parts can reach and, in the case of the turbo, combustion by-products shorten bearing life. Internal combustion cars must withstand heat, corrosive combustion by-products, vibration, variable quality fuels and oils, and the list goes on. They lead hard lives. Some make it 200,000 with just oil and air filters, spark plugs, brakes and disks and engine belts but a certain percentage will succumb to an early death. Most fall somewhere in-between.
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Old 02-06-2021, 02:23 AM   #223
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i could not check any of the blocks. how much cash i put down, or whether i pay any down depends on the market. I won't take money from an account earning 6% when the loan interest rate is less than 3%. now with inflation sky rocketing in the next couple years, financing $100,000 is more apealing.
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Old 02-06-2021, 10:45 AM   #224
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Originally Posted by kitesurfer2 View Post
i could not check any of the blocks. how much cash i put down, or whether i pay any down depends on the market. I won't take money from an account earning 6% when the loan interest rate is less than 3%. now with inflation sky rocketing in the next couple years, financing $100,000 is more apealing.
You are amazing being able to tell what the future inflation rate will be!

This reminds me of all the people who "knew" the results of the 2008 election would usher in crippling inflation. We know how those predictions turned out. Now, it's happening all over again.
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Old 02-07-2021, 06:45 AM   #225
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You are amazing being able to tell what the future inflation rate will be!

This reminds me of all the people who "knew" the results of the 2008 election would usher in crippling inflation. We know how those predictions turned out. Now, it's happening all over again.
?
i don't claim to be smart . please tell me how printing money to give to everyone in the usa[MOD EDIT] will not cause inflation? i googled inflation. how soon the inflation gets here, i do not know. but thanks for being amazed!
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Old 02-07-2021, 08:02 AM   #226
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This economics professor might help you with that:

https://www.forbes.com/sites/johntha...h=2878571d42f5

Quote:
It is conventional wisdom that printing more money causes inflation. This is why we are seeing so many warnings today of how Quantitative Easing I and II and the federal government’s deficit are about to lead to skyrocketing prices. The only problem is, it’s not true. That’s not how inflation works.

In any event, we are getting way off topic.
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Old 02-07-2021, 11:03 AM   #227
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Originally Posted by RetiredAtThirty-eight View Post
You are amazing being able to tell what the future inflation rate will be!

This reminds me of all the people who "knew" the results of the 2008 election would usher in crippling inflation. We know how those predictions turned out. Now, it's happening all over again.
Yes. There are people, too, who claim to have some kind of predictive "vision" for stocks. Equally amazing, I guess.
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Old 02-07-2021, 11:14 AM   #228
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Originally Posted by Gumby View Post
This economics professor might help you with that:

https://www.forbes.com/sites/johntha...h=2878571d42f5




In any event, we are getting way off topic.
Off topic, yes, but thanks for the article. A nice, clear explanation.
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Old 02-07-2021, 11:53 AM   #229
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Iím sorry to see all the bad info about Tesla. I was hoping to purchase one within the next few years, but there is no way that I would buy a car where major component failure is designed into the vehicle after 5 to 6 years. I keep new cars for a minimum of ten years, longest was 17 years. Itís a matter of economics. When the repairs begin to be more than the value, itís time to sell or donate. There are many reliable cars, why would someone buy one they know will have expensive failure during the first 5 to 6 years? I understand that works well if you are leasing - you then pass the planned failure on to the next person and get a new one. However, I keep cars for a long time and Tesla is now off the list. Iíll stick to Lexus and Acura (the latter being the one I kept for 17 years, the former is only 10, with several more to go ). BTW, I am hoping that more EVs are developed that have better reliability and longevity than the Tesla. My son has a Camry hybrid with 160K miles on it with no engine, dash, or other repairs. Just normal maintenace.
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Old 02-07-2021, 12:39 PM   #230
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Iím sorry to see all the bad info about Tesla. I was hoping to purchase one within the next few years, but there is no way that I would buy a car where major component failure is designed into the vehicle after 5 to 6 years. I keep new cars for a minimum of ten years, longest was 17 years. Itís a matter of economics. When the repairs begin to be more than the value, itís time to sell or donate. There are many reliable cars, why would someone buy one they know will have expensive failure during the first 5 to 6 years? I understand that works well if you are leasing - you then pass the planned failure on to the next person and get a new one. However, I keep cars for a long time and Tesla is now off the list. Iíll stick to Lexus and Acura (the latter being the one I kept for 17 years, the former is only 10, with several more to go ). BTW, I am hoping that more EVs are developed that have better reliability and longevity than the Tesla. My son has a Camry hybrid with 160K miles on it with no engine, dash, or other repairs. Just normal maintenace.
This is just hilarious! Tesla doesn't design major component failure into the car after 5 or 6 years of use! I'm not sure where you got that idea. In fact, they engineer their most recent powertrains to last 1 million miles. Tesla is constantly improving their products as soon as a problem is identified.

Yes, they are replacing a bunch of touchscreens on their early Model S cars for free. But they did not intend for these parts to fail, it was an accident, just like any other mass recall from Toyota, Ford or GM. Remember, Toyota had bad paint on millions of their cars - it would start to flake and peel after 4-9 years. They didn't do it on purpose, it was an accident. And like all good carmakers, Toyota has remedied the problem.

It's very short-sighted to think a problem that originated in 2013 is still being installed into 2021 models. By this logic you could never buy any car ever made.

We tend to keep our cars a long time and we've had two Tesla Model 3's for three years and have two Cybertrucks on order. Our Tesla's are the most reliable cars we've ever had. Bar none. But I wouldn't buy a used Model S or X that was made during Tesla's early years. As a manufacturer, they just started hitting their stride in 2019/2020. Their early cars were great cars but that's not to say there weren't a few kinks.

Like all new cars, there will still be the occasional problem or issue down the road but they are already much more reliable than any gasoline powered car.
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Old 02-07-2021, 01:01 PM   #231
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I can and do expect that a well built and expensive car should have components that won’t fail for many years, if not the normal useful life of the car. This is the quote from Tesla that gives me pause “ 'It is economically, if not technologically, infeasible to expect that such components can or should be designed to last the vehicle’s entire useful life,' Tesla said in the letter."

That was in the context of failures that took place well before the expected life of the car. Owning a car with no problems during the first 3 years of ownership is meaningless. Most car warranties are now for 4 years. I expect the engine and most major parts of a car, with the exception of consumables, to last for 10 years or 100,000 miles. It’s not like we are talking about buying a Yugo for $10K.

There have been defects in cars since they were invented. Some have been spectacular failures, others were cosmetic (paint) failures. All cars have them. However, Tesla stating that their touch panels may fail after 5 or 6 years is not acceptable to me. You clearly love your Tesla’s. That’s fine with me. But please don’t expect others to have the same feelings towards inanimate objects as if they were human. It’s just a car, and an expensive one at that. I’ve bought cars that developed defects over time. I’ve owned over 20 different brands of cars. Some were bad, some were good and some were great. That’s life, and you learn from each experience.
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Old 02-07-2021, 02:47 PM   #232
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I can and do expect that a well built and expensive car should have components that wonít fail for many years, if not the normal useful life of the car. This is the quote from Tesla that gives me pause ď 'It is economically, if not technologically, infeasible to expect that such components can or should be designed to last the vehicleís entire useful life,' Tesla said in the letter."

That was in the context of failures that took place well before the expected life of the car. Owning a car with no problems during the first 3 years of ownership is meaningless. Most car warranties are now for 4 years. I expect the engine and most major parts of a car, with the exception of consumables, to last for 10 years or 100,000 miles. Itís not like we are talking about buying a Yugo for $10K.

There have been defects in cars since they were invented. Some have been spectacular failures, others were cosmetic (paint) failures. All cars have them. However, Tesla stating that their touch panels may fail after 5 or 6 years is not acceptable to me. You clearly love your Teslaís. Thatís fine with me. But please donít expect others to have the same feelings towards inanimate objects as if they were human. Itís just a car, and an expensive one at that. Iíve bought cars that developed defects over time. Iíve owned over 20 different brands of cars. Some were bad, some were good and some were great. Thatís life, and you learn from each experience.
You can buy a Yugo for $10,000.00?

Sounds like a waste of a perfectly good $10K.
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Old 02-07-2021, 02:53 PM   #233
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Yes. There are people, too, who claim to have some kind of predictive "vision" for stocks. Equally amazing, I guess.
Well, I would hope the 100,000's of hours I've spent researching public companies over the last 30 years for investment purposes weren't a complete waste of time. No one would bother to read their earnings statements if this were not true, they would just buy the company because it was listed on a public exchange.

I hope you realize that's what your viewpoint implies.
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Old 02-07-2021, 03:37 PM   #234
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... I hope you realize that's what your viewpoint implies.
Yes. That's what a half-century of statistics and a pantheon of Nobel winners says. But this is not the thread for that discussion.
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Old 02-07-2021, 04:05 PM   #235
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You can buy a Yugo for $10,000.00?
Sounds like a waste of a perfectly good $10K.
Just trying to be facetious. I did buy my first car in 1970 for $350 - a well used 1963 VW Beatle. Lasted a lot longer than a Yugo would have (and, I have no idea what a Yugo cost back when they were made). My first new car was a Chevy Vega Hatchback - cost $2,500 and lasted 10 years until I sold it. Other than burning a lot of oil, it was a great car and very easy to self maintain without going to a repair shop.
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Old 02-07-2021, 04:12 PM   #236
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I've done a wide enough variety of things, that I don't think I have a real pattern. Actually, my most common vehicle acquisition is getting a miled-up, free hand-me-down from a relative.

Anyway, I chose #6, finance a used vehicle, because that's probably going to be what I do the next time I buy a car. Probably buy one slightly used, and as long as the rates are low, finance it out to 5 years. I know they say that's bad advice, but the way I see it, if the rate for a 5-year term is close to what it is for a shorter term, why not just take it out a bit longer, let the money ride in the stock market where it has more earning potential. And, if I get the urge, I can always pay it down quicker.
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Old 02-07-2021, 07:43 PM   #237
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I answered pay cash for used, as this is indeed our normal procedure. But we bought our RV used on a loan, and our current car is leased...
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Old 02-07-2021, 08:41 PM   #238
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We just got my wife a new used Tiguan on Sunday. It is our typical move. She got a new Honda Pilot in January 06 as our only new car purchase in 35 years together.

It's a 2019 with 12,000 miles, 65 months and 72,000 miles of warranty remaining.
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Old 02-07-2021, 08:43 PM   #239
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Through the 1980's and into the 1990's I always bought used cars to save money. But once I figured out how to turn the stock market into my own personal cash machine I didn't want to spend the time looking for that hard to find used car at a good price and I was making more money than I knew what to do with (and still am).

I figured my time was more profitably spent researching promising new companies than searching for cars. Half of them were being sold because they had "issues" so there was a lot of wasted time checking out cars that were dead ends. Even when I got a good one there would always be some kind of repairs needed, new tires, brakes, belts, dead batteries, etc.

So I started buying new, mostly out of convenience and to save time fixing cars. I can fix just about anything but it does take time and money. Since the mid-1990's I've only bought new cars and, while it has cost a bit more money overall, it's totally worth it. Whatever money my wife and I don't spend is going to be given away anyway so we might as well try to spend some of it.
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Old 02-07-2021, 08:46 PM   #240
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I answered cash for used, and posted a pic of the new car we got last Sunday. That post disappeared. Maybe there is a limit I have to reach before posting pictures?
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