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View Poll Results: What is your usual vehicle buying habit?
PAY CASH for a NEW vehicle and drive it into the ground (not worried about resale of trade in value). 156 45.75%
FINANCE a NEW vehicle and drive it into the ground (not worried about resale of trade in value). 32 9.38%
PAY CASH for a NEW vehicle, but TRADE every few years while it still has value. 32 9.38%
FINANCE a NEW vehicle, but trade every few years while it still has value. 4 1.17%
PAY CASH for only USED vehicles because I want someone else to take the big depreciation. 101 29.62%
FINANCE only USED vehicles because I want someone else to take the big depreciation. 11 3.23%
I LEASE vehicles (either personal or through a business). 5 1.47%
I only purchase my cars at the Pebble Beach Concours d'Elegance, and my CPA worries about the details. 0 0%
Voters: 341. You may not vote on this poll

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Old 01-17-2021, 10:07 AM   #61
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Originally Posted by pb4uski View Post
Monthly payments were $529.60 for 60 months or $31,776. Car has been trouble free... maintenance has been mainly oil changes, tire rotations, engine and cabin air filter replacements and two sets of tires.... ~$2,152 per my Quicken records. Current equity is $15,390 trade-in and $18,750 retail... $17,070 average. Net cost was $16,858 or $281/month.

For next two years, let's assume 2 oil change/tire rotations a year ($85/each or $340), $50 for engine and cabin air filters (I buy on Amazon and install myself), and $1,000 for other stuff... that's ~$1,500. A 2-year older car with 25k more miles would have a trade-in value of $10,650 and a retail value of $13,950... $12,300 average.

So for 7 years my net cost based on car payments rather than cost will be $31,776 for the car plus $3,652 for maintenance and repairs less equity of $12,300.... a net cost of $23,128... divided by 7 years is $275/month.

I will say that your claim of a lease payment of $300/month for a car with a $46k MSRP with no money upfront is way, way better than any lease deal that I have ever seen... which makes me wonder if it is a special situation of some sort. If I could find a lease of a similar vehicle... or even a new version of my current ride that has a $35k MSRP for $300/month with no money down then I would seriously consider leasing.
I can find a leased car for 36 months ..36,000 miles at 300 a month but it's a 27K car and you need 2500 down at signing, so yes not sure exactly what the poster does to get a car twice as expensive for 300 bucks with no cash out the door...I am seeing a lower equipped Honda Accords for 300 a month and no cash down..maybe we need to start a newer thread about car leasing in 2021. I recall we had a leasing thread going but that was several years ago. we just bought a car so I'm not going to start a lease thread.
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Old 01-17-2021, 10:10 AM   #62
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bobandsherry View Post
Every lease I've ever had has included gap insurance as part of the standard lease. That's with Nissan/Infiniti, Kia, GM and Ford/Lincoln. Additionally, that's why you should NEVER put money down on a lease. If car is totalled you lose whatever you have paid including any capital reduction you may have put down.

As for charges for "random damage, each lease I've had, multiple manufactures, has included them scheduling someone to look over the car a month or so before expiration date. They are very upfront as to if there are any items that need to be addressed prior to turn in. But routine dings and chips, considered normal wear and tear, and not a charge. In my experience, again multiple manufactures, I've never had any repairs noted as needing to be done. Additionally, I've never had any extra charges for damage when car was turned in.
So you take good of your cars, which is probably a must for a leased car..just pointing that damage to the car while you drive it must be taken care of at turn in time.
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Old 01-17-2021, 10:20 AM   #63
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Originally Posted by ivinsfan View Post
I can find a leased car for 36 months ..36,000 miles at 300 a month but it's a 27K car and you need 2500 down at signing, so yes not sure exactly what the poster does to get a car twice as expensive for 300 bucks with no cash out the door...I am seeing a lower equipped Honda Accords for 300 a month and no cash down..maybe we need to start a newer thread about car leasing in 2021. I recall we had a leasing thread going but that was several years ago. we just bought a car so I'm not going to start a lease thread.
So to my thinking $300/month for 36 months with $2,500 down is really $369/month. The offer that you quoted seems consistent with the lease payment on a $27k car with $2,500 down according to the TrueCar Car Lease Calculator (see screenshot below).

If I put $46k MSRP and $0 down into that calculator I get $661/month so B&S is either a really good negotiator or BS ... just kidding... I do believe him but suspect his may be some special situation of some sort.

And those advertised teaser lease offers typically exclude a lot of things. A few years ago when I was buying my truck I recall seeing a very attractive lease ad for a Toyota Tacoma... so I stopped by the Toyota dealer and inquired about that specific offer. By the time they added in acquisition fee, gap insurance, title, taxes, registration, etc the monthly lease cost was close to twice the advertised price... so I just told them that their ads were deceptive and walked out the door.

https://www.truecar.com/car-lease-ca...EaAk5SEALw_wcB
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Old 01-17-2021, 10:22 AM   #64
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Originally Posted by pb4uski View Post
I will say that your claim of a lease payment of $300/month for car with a $46k MSRP with no money upfront is way, way better than any lease deal that I have ever seen... which makes me wonder if it is a special situation of some sort. If I could find a lease of a similar vehicle... or even a new version of my current ride that has a $35k MSRP for $300/month with no money down then I would seriously consider leasing.
First, thanks for sharing your details. I use this type of info to guide me on future buy/lease. Similar to you, I may chose to buy or lease depending on the deal available. I'm not opposed to buying, have bought several cars as well, and don't say leasing is the right answer everytime and for everyone.

Nope, nothing "special", available to anyone. It may have been more due to timing, right place, right time (incentives, dealer looking to make goals and moving inventory, money factor costs, etc). But wouldn't say it was unique either, vehicle before that was $3k lower MSRP and payment was just $25 more per month. I did have to chose a different color than I originally had wanted, but I was happy with the alternative color.

Again, thanks for sharing your details.
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Old 01-17-2021, 10:27 AM   #65
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Quote:
Originally Posted by pb4uski View Post
So to my thinking $300/month for 36 months with $2,500 down is really $369/month. The offer that you quoted seems consistent with the lease payment on a $27k car with $2,500 down according to the TrueCar Car Lease Calculator (see screenshot below).

If I put $46k MSRP and $0 down into that calculator I get $661/month so B&S is either a really good negotiator or BS ... I do believe him but suspect his may be some special situation of some sort.

And those advertised teaser lease offers typically exclude a lot of things. A few years ago when I was buying my truck I recall seeing a very attractive lease ad for a Toyota Tacoma... so I stopped by the Toyota dealer and inquired about that specific offer. By the time they added in acquisition fee, gap insurance, title, taxes, registration, etc the monthly lease cost was close to twice the advertised price... so I just told them that their ads were deceptive and walked out the door.
We just traded off a car we thought we'd be driving for at least another 3 years. My DH wanted some of the new tech/safety improvements. So I am interested in leasing costs..after a few years in this car, we might consider leasing as we continue to age.
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Old 01-17-2021, 10:29 AM   #66
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bobandsherry View Post
First, thanks for sharing your details. I use this type of info to guide me on future buy/lease. Similar to you, I may chose to buy or lease depending on the deal available. I'm not opposed to buying, have bought several cars as well, and don't say leasing is the right answer everytime and for everyone.

Nope, nothing "special", available to anyone. It may have been more due to timing, right place, right time (incentives, dealer looking to make goals and moving inventory, money factor costs, etc). But wouldn't say it was unique either, vehicle before that was $3k lower MSRP and payment was just $25 more per month. I did have to chose a different color than I originally had wanted, but I was happy with the alternative color.

Again, thanks for sharing your details.
So how about sales tax and gap insurance..what does that add to your monthly cost? I know states can vary wildly with sales tax on cars..

I know that a very good credit score can help with the no cash down issue as well..but I would imagine the payment would go up not that the cash down amount would disappear.
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Old 01-17-2021, 11:16 AM   #67
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I didnt vote because it varies. Always cash, but we wouldnt turn down a 0pct. I wanted to add that in talking to folks, alot CLAIM they only buy new and drive them into the ground, but their ground and my ground must be different grounds because this tends to happen about every 5 years "but Im going to keep it forever" yeah uhuh
From this site, I've learned next time buying a car, I'll take 0% financing or cheap financing if it includes a discount and I can pay off anytime fee free.

As for the driving into the ground, I'm happy to go 10+ yrs , but DW is currently at 23 yrs and still not interested in buying another.
Her ground is different from mine
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Old 01-17-2021, 11:39 AM   #68
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As for the driving into the ground, I'm happy to go 10+ yrs , but DW is currently at 23 yrs and still not interested in buying another.
Her ground is different from mine
What's your DW driving that's lasted so long? Or maybe she's just a really low-mileage gal.
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Old 01-17-2021, 12:46 PM   #69
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So how about sales tax and gap insurance..what does that add to your monthly cost? I know states can vary wildly with sales tax on cars..

I know that a very good credit score can help with the no cash down issue as well..but I would imagine the payment would go up not that the cash down amount would disappear.
As I mentioned previously, gap insurance is included. From my experience manufacture lease includes gap. However, my specific experience is limited to Nissan/Infiniti, GM, Kia, Ford/Lincoln.

For my state, the sales tax is added to and included in the final payment.
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Old 01-17-2021, 12:49 PM   #70
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We have two cars, one being 10 years old and the other 4 years old. Until Covid, we drove dross country twice a year to visit family and stay for a few months. Now, we drive to the supermarket about once every two weeks and a few tourist trips just to get out, never more than 75 miles each way and only go yo parks. Older car has 110K miles, newer one just hit 30K miles. We tend to drive our vehicles until the cost to repair exceeds the value - that's averaged 12 years. Longest was 17 ('95 Acura Integra), shortest was 9 ('72 Chevy Vega).

I expect we will look for something new in about 2 years to replace the older car, unless we don't put more mileage on it by then. We have financed cars and paid cash for cars ($350 for a '63 VW convertible in 1970 while stationed in Germany). We have never leased a car. It's not a viable option unless you enjoy having a car payment for ever and like a new car every few years. Or you have a business you can use to deduct the lease costs. We look at a car as a depreciating asset that falls in value the day you drive it off the lot. If we pay cash, the only costs after that are the same costs you would have on a lease. If we finance, in 3 or 4 years, we have no payments and again, the only costs are the same you would have on a lease. I know people have different thoughts on what a car means to them. Having grown up in a big city where having a car was a liability, not an asset, we consider a car to be transportation - meaning we buy the best we can afford Consumer Reports - maintenance, relatability, build quality, comfort etc. No desire for muscle cars, cars costing so much you could buy a house for the same money or features that you never really use. Our last 4 cars have come with sun roofs - we rarely ever use them. Two have has 4 wheel drive, which was a waste of money. But the cars with those features were still cheaper off the lot than ordering one without those features. Dealers become more negotiable at the end of the month, end of the quarter and at the end of the model year. We bought our 2016 right after the 2017's came out and the discount off list was about 27% and it was what I call a semi-luxury car. Also, we never buy a car in high demand. We once bought a car through a credit union buying service and they gave us a big discount, bonus cash off the price and a great interest rate. You can get the great interest rate right now, but forget about the other 2.

Have fun haggling. Just remember the auto buying scene in the original Fargo movie.
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Old 01-17-2021, 12:59 PM   #71
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Have purchased both New and Used cars, financed, run them until they almost drop, usually 10-15 years. Sell or part out.
Have had 2 lemons, both used, a jetta and mazda. Kept them only a year or two.
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Old 01-17-2021, 01:00 PM   #72
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We tend to hold onto vehicles. We've bought 3 vehicles in the past 3 years.

My car was bought new, was going to pay cash but they offered 0%. There were not cash back offers. Took the free financing. My old car was 10 years old when we sold it.

My husband's 1995 pickup was in an accident just over a year ago. We already had plans to buy a new car for his daily driver... but the kids were using the truck. We bought a used 1999 pickup that the kids now use. Paid cash through a private party sale.

My husband bought a new car a month later. His plan was to use it for a big cross country road trip to visit family members. Instead we stayed home due to the pandemic. His car had around 2000 miles the first year. We paid cash for this car.

So... Cash for 1 used and 1 new. Financing for 1 new because 0%.

Don't see myself leasing ever. Adds to the overall cost.

For selling we don't trade in because they never come close to what we can get private party. My car we sold via carmax. Other cars we sold via craigslist
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Old 01-17-2021, 01:15 PM   #73
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(4) FINANCE a NEW vehicle, but trade every few years while it still has value. 2020 F150 and 2021 Toyota Venza Hybrid SUV

I still have a 2003 diesel pickup truck that's scheduled to wear out when I'm about 95 years old. And I have a 2008 Lexus we're not even driving right now.
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Old 01-17-2021, 01:27 PM   #74
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Quote:
Originally Posted by pb4uski View Post
So to my thinking $300/month for 36 months with $2,500 down is really $369/month. The offer that you quoted seems consistent with the lease payment on a $27k car with $2,500 down according to the TrueCar Car Lease Calculator (see screenshot below).

If I put $46k MSRP and $0 down into that calculator I get $661/month so B&S is either a really good negotiator or BS ... just kidding... I do believe him but suspect his may be some special situation of some sort.

And those advertised teaser lease offers typically exclude a lot of things. A few years ago when I was buying my truck I recall seeing a very attractive lease ad for a Toyota Tacoma... so I stopped by the Toyota dealer and inquired about that specific offer. By the time they added in acquisition fee, gap insurance, title, taxes, registration, etc the monthly lease cost was close to twice the advertised price... so I just told them that their ads were deceptive and walked out the door.

https://www.truecar.com/car-lease-ca...EaAk5SEALw_wcB
So I'm learning something from BandS here, gap insurance is included in the monthly upfront cost of your lease. .it's not an add on so if your dealer tries to add it on they are double dipping and likely breaking the law..I googled the last part...
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Old 01-17-2021, 02:54 PM   #75
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I'm mostly choice 5. I will take advantage of cheap financing if available, and have no issues buying new if that's what I want. But typically I buy used paying cash as the most common.
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Old 01-17-2021, 03:15 PM   #76
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I checked #5 but as we have become old and prosperous our "used" vehicles have typically been one model year old. My WRX was new, unsold, and discounted to reflect more than the typical first-year depreciation. DW's Mini Countryman was a factory rep car, one model year old with like 10K miles, sold as Certified Used but never before sold at retail. My truck, Nissan Frontier was bought this way in 2007 and now has about 120K miles. Rust will become obnoxious in a year or two and it will be sold.

There is a reason the F&I guy tries hard to sell leases.
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Old 01-17-2021, 03:33 PM   #77
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Who knew "how do you buy a car?" was such a hot topic!
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Old 01-17-2021, 04:01 PM   #78
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What is your usual vehicle buying habit?

(5) PAY CASH for only USED vehicles because I want someone else to take the big depreciation.
In my early years I bought numerous $100 - $500 beaters and limped them along until they died.
In 1991 I bought a '67 pickup and kept it until '99 when the frame rusted and broke. (300,000+ miles)
In 1999 I bought a '95 pickup and kept it until the end of 2015 when the body got so rusted that the door kept flying open every time I made a right turn. (225,000 + miles)
At the end of 2015 I bought a 2010 pickup that I plan on keeping for the next ten years or so until it gets too rusty to drive anymore.
I financed the wife's last car (a 2015 program car that we bought in 2016) for 1.99% but got fed up with B.O.A. about titling the vehicle in the wife's name and ended up paying it off in less than a year. We'll keep that one for 15+ years if all goes well.
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Old 01-17-2021, 04:28 PM   #79
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Originally Posted by pb4uski View Post
So to my thinking $300/month for 36 months with $2,500 down is really $369/month. The offer that you quoted seems consistent with the lease payment on a $27k car with $2,500 down according to the TrueCar Car Lease Calculator (see screenshot below).

If I put $46k MSRP and $0 down into that calculator I get $661/month so B&S is either a really good negotiator or BS ... just kidding... I do believe him but suspect his may be some special situation of some sort.
I have no idea how you can figure out a lease payment without knowing the actual details. Calculating a lease payment is not just plug in MSRP, a money factor and done. You are leaving out the most important details, the reduction to capitalized cost, also known as dealer discount and incentives (manufacturer rebates and discounts, special program discounts and dealer discounts). Think of it this way, every $1k in incentives is $27 savings on the payment. $8k in incentives is $220 reduction to the payment.

You also have to know the residual value, that is definitely not a one size fits all and will vary by manufacturer, model and even the type of package. The residual is basically fixed so every dollar discount off of MSRP through capitalized cost reduction is a benefit directly to your payment. And further, manufacturer may sweeten the residual on cars they want to move. The higher the residual the lower your payment. I can say that I feel the residual is higher than I would expect to get for the vehicle at the end of the lease, but I don't care, that's not my risk.

And the dealer may have tax credits they can apply to lower your payment. It's money they either use or lose.

So all that said, that's why I say the only thing I do when leasing is negotiable the payment. I don't care how the dealer structures the deal, they can pull whatever strings they have available.

So anything you just plug into a lease calculator without knowing what incentives there may be is basically the lease payment on full retail price. I'd bet that's what some people pay, but that's just silly as paying retail for a new or used car.

And lastly, money factor is a great unknown. For my last deal the money factor was almost zero. The total "rent" charge, which is basically the finance cost on a traditional loan totalled $15 for 3 years. I guess essentially same as 0% offers if financing.

I don't know if you consider last year of the model to be special situation, but that may have been why vehicle was being discounted to clear inventory. Dunno and honestly don't care, I focus only on payment.

I mentioned this forum earlier, but will share again as information there is invaluable. It's great education on finer points of leasing. You'll also see deals shared by others.

https://forum.leasehackr.com/c/deals-and-tips/6

Anyway, I guess this is now way off topic to the OPs original post, so I'll just let this be my wrap up and let others get back to answering the OPs question.
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Old 01-17-2021, 04:36 PM   #80
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We just traded off a car we thought we'd be driving for at least another 3 years. My DH wanted some of the new tech/safety improvements. So I am interested in leasing costs..after a few years in this car, we might consider leasing as we continue to age.
Yeah, the new tech/safety improvements are on my mind too.
DGF totaled the Honda, which we would have kept for many more years, but now have a 2019 Mazda and just love the backup camera and side vision warning system. A big deal to me with most parking around here being non parallel.
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