Question about Obama College Loan Proposal

[Independent]

Why do scholarly journals increase in price by 200%? Because that's what colleges will pay. Upgrading to single-room apartments instead of multi-occupant dorms, building nicer gyms, etc, etc. These do not sound like institutions that are under tough price pressure from consumers out to get the very best bargain for their dollar. Its sounds like the consumers have a lot of money to spend on this education, and that the schools are upgrading so they can compete for the available students. Where is this money coming from? Look no farther than your local financial aid office and Sallie Mae.

Yep.

I'd also say that the willingness of parents and students to spend isn't just loans but is also driven by a belief that any degree is valuable. I've never seen serious research on this question, but I'm guessing that if you don't have good analytical skills (aka "like math"), there aren't a lot of programs out there with a good return on your investment for average students.

 

[samclem]

I'd also say that the willingness of parents and students to spend isn't just loans but is also driven by a belief that any degree is valuable..

I think that the ability to communicate well, especially in writing, is another higher-level skill that employers are willing to pay for, but unfortunately I don't think a college degree is necessarily evidence of this skill.

There's a good case to be made that there are a lot of people going to four year colleges who shouldn't be there, and would be far better off doing something else. The schools accept students who are not prepared to do the work. They pay tuition for a year or three, struggle along, and never get a degree.

A college shouldn't be a vocational school, but a graduate with a BS in electrical engineering and 60K in debt is in a much better situation than a psych major with 60K in debt.

I heard this guy, Marty Nemko (web site) , on NPR a few months ago. He's a career counselor/coach in San Francisco, and he is definitely of the opinion that a lot of folks are hurting themselves by going to college.

An interesting article: "We Send Too Many Students to College."

I have a hard time telling such people the killer statistic: According to the U.S. Department of Education, if you graduated in the bottom 40 percent of your high school class and went to college, 76 of 100 won’t earn a diploma, even if given 8 1/2 years. Yet colleges admit and take the money from hundreds of thousands of such students each year!

And, another thought-provoking article (not exactly related to this thread):
Do What You Love and Starve.

Based on the 2,700 clients I’ve worked with over the past two decades . . . I’ve come to the conclusion that we’ve been sold a bill of goods when we’re told to “Follow your passion, “ or “Do what you love and the money will follow.” Fact is, if you do what you love, you’ll probably starve.
. . .
The problem is that too many people crave the same few careers, for example, the arts, environmental, and non-profit work. Employers in these fields get dozens if not hundreds of applications for each job. So, you have to be a star or extremely well connected to get the job.
In other cases, salaries tend to be low or non-existent. Do what you love and volunteer work may well follow.
. . .

In contrast, if your job is mundane, for example, marketing manager for the Western Widget Company, the employer knows there aren’t hundreds of competent people champing at the bit for your job. So, to keep you, the employer is more likely to offer decent working conditions, reasonable work hours, kind treatment, opportunities for learning, and pay you well. Those are the things that—much more than being in a “cool” career-- lead to career contentment.

Unconventional advice, but a breath of fresh air, I think.

 

[Independent]

I think that the ability to communicate well, especially in writing, is another higher-level skill that employers are willing to pay for, but unfortunately I don't think a college degree is necessarily evidence of this skill.

There's a good case to be made that there are a lot of people going to four year colleges who shouldn't be there, and would be far better off doing something else. The schools accept students who are not prepared to do the work. They pay tuition for a year or three, struggle along, and never get a degree.

A college shouldn't be a vocational school, but a graduate with a BS in electrical engineering and 60K in debt is in a much better situation than a psych major with 60K in debt.

I heard this guy, Marty Nemko (web site) , on NPR a few months ago. He's a career counselor/coach in San Francisco, and he is definitely of the opinion that a lot of folks are hurting themselves by going to college.

An interesting article: "We Send Too Many Students to College."


And, another thought-provoking article (not exactly related to this thread):
Do What You Love and Starve.


Unconventional advice, but a breath of fresh air, I think.

Great article, I'm going to save that link. It covers lots of things that usually get swept under the rug.

I've thought that all college "viewbooks" should include three tables of actual history for that school.
1) Graduation rates and GPA distribution by high school grades.
2) Grants (not loans) from the school by family income.
3) Percent getting jobs "requiring their degree", and average salaries, by degree.

But, I'm one of those analytical types that hang out here. According to the article, if the students parents have college degrees themselves, there's a good chance they can't interpret a table. Oh well.