ExFlyBoy5
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I was only speaking to the listing contract and the seller being "stuck" in it.
Real estate agent question
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I was only speaking to the listing contract and the seller being "stuck" in it.
ivinsfan
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But did he breach his duty if the seller walks away with more money, that's the question.
Sunset
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Yes, as it's obvious then the listing should have been higher, which the Agent knew. If the house is worth more, the Agent is not properly advertising or showing the house, and is probably discouraging or preventing potential buyers. A breach of duty.
ivinsfan
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Higher why do you say that, it's been listed for two months with no buyers, obliviously it was listed too high for the local market. The agent is the seller's agent and would be obligated to show them any written offers. There have been no offers or none acceptable to the seller.
COcheesehead
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Based on this thread it looks like some folks think a realtor just slaps a price on a house and the offers come in. How that broker interacts with other brokers, how the property is or is not marketed. How it is photographed, how it appears in the MLS and online. So many things are under the broker's control. Two months without an offer doesn't always mean it was priced wrong.
ivinsfan
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No but it doesn't mean it was priced right...the buyers have agents too who will sniff out decent/good homes. The OP hasn't really shared many details.
COcheesehead
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My point in saying this is the broker can kill a deal before it evens gets to an offer stage. Having them wanting to buy the house makes you wonder what they did or did not do so that no offers were made in that timeframe.
ivinsfan
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That's all possible and implies this was the broker's plan from the beginning. I'm hoping the OP will come back with more details. For example were there open houses, any offers at all and stuff like that.
In real estates sales your reputation is everything.
+1 I had a realtor knock on my door and tell me he had a buyer. Then he called me. Finally after about the fourth call he said he wanted to buy my house and would do so for a 1% commission, then I asked how much his offer was and I laughed. Not today buddy.
ExFlyBoy5
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Realtors can really make a bad name for themselves (and others) in how they conduct business. An agent lived in my Dad's neighborhood and constantly came around asking if he wanted to sell the house. Dad was a neighborly guy and didn't want to tell anyone "no" and it went so far as to having a developer send over an offer. It was a very low ball (even offensive) offer and as my Dad's POA, I told the agent to stick it and stop bugging Dad. It got bad enough that my DW (who is a broker in Georgia) contacted the R/E commission about it and when he came around *again* (when Dad was on his deathbed) I had him trespassed from the property. Absolutely ridiculous.
Luck_Club
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Lack of love for RE agents
1st. Do you know what the house is worth? plug in the address into zillow look at sold listings around the neighborhood. Are you asking close +/-10%?
2nd. I've dealt with a ton of realtors, where they refuse to call me back, and I have to get very aggressive to even see the property. I often suspect that the property listing agent has a "friend" or investor they are trying to discourage buyers so they can buy it.
3rd. If your price is correct from number 1 above, I would only accept list price. If they don't want to buy it I would immediately fire them and get another agency, because something is rotten in Denmark.
4th. If you don't really need to make the sale right away, I might just fire them and re-list because they just wasted all my time and effort playing games.
1st. Do you know what the house is worth? plug in the address into zillow look at sold listings around the neighborhood. Are you asking close +/-10%?
2nd. I've dealt with a ton of realtors, where they refuse to call me back, and I have to get very aggressive to even see the property. I often suspect that the property listing agent has a "friend" or investor they are trying to discourage buyers so they can buy it.
3rd. If your price is correct from number 1 above, I would only accept list price. If they don't want to buy it I would immediately fire them and get another agency, because something is rotten in Denmark.
4th. If you don't really need to make the sale right away, I might just fire them and re-list because they just wasted all my time and effort playing games.
jfn111
Thinks s/he gets paid by the post
You live or die by your reputation in this business.
In a past life I worked as a Realtor. This was back in the 90s when 'Buyer's Agent' first went into affect in the State I worked in and where I focused my dealings. I loved working with buyer's on their behalf as they got my representation being their Buyer's Agent. I didn't sell them anything (in the sense of a salesman), but rather helped people buy the home that they wanted and at a fair price. I mostly helped first time buyers and helped families purchase HUD homes, I didn't make a lot of money, just enjoyed helping others.
IMHO, there could be a possible conflict of interest if your listing agent wishes to purchase your house. Your agent knows all the reason why you want to sell and knows your lowest price, all the details they would never share with a buyer or Buyer's agent. All agents have a Broker, the head boss of the office, and is the one responsible for the actions of their agents. I would speak to your agents Broker to get their opinion about the matter.
IMHO, this is like your defense attorney, whom you told all your secrets and details, now switching to the prosecutors side at your trial.
We need more info though:
What type of listing do you have?
Example: Exclusive right to sell, Exclusive agency listing,
Open listing, Net listing.
Which state is this in? (Net Listing not allowed in some states, there may be other rules regarding conflict of interest as well).
How much is the listing commission rate? (to see if it is enough that will attract a Buyer's agent. Perhaps a reason your property is not attracting buyers).
What is the name or franchise of the company/brokerage firm that your property is listed with?
Have you seen the MLS listing of your property? (the one where agents list properties so other agents can see them, and only agents have access to all the details of a listing. This will show the coop fee, as a %, offered).
If have seen it, what is the co-op commission rate? (the amount the listing agent is sharing with buyer's agents).
These are important bits of information to determine how your agent is representing you and presenting, and advertising, your property to other agents and the public.
Even if your agent buys it, a commission will still need to be paid (depends on the listing type) to the Broker of the company your listing is with (unless your agent is the Broker and owns the firm, may be other rules involved there too). Typically, after closing the Broker splits the commission with the listing agent along with the Broker of the Buyer's agents (if there is one). The ratio depends on the arrangement the agent and broker have and may differ if the agent is a party to the transaction (actual buyer or seller).
If you do sell to your agent, the Broker may insist that another agent in the office represent you as your Seller's agent. It may even be possible that your agent's Broker insist that your listing be removed from their office and your property listed with a competing office to ensure there is no conflict of interest, or you being represented by a real estate attorney. Even the appearance of a conflict of interest is something to be avoided by Brokers.
Another issue is to ensure a fair value, the appraisal:
Typically, the Buyer pays for the appraisal, required by the lender (pending on the amount put down etc.). But since your listing agent wishes to buy your house, you may well want to have your own appraisal done. If I was the Broker of your agent/buyer, I'd want you to have one done by an appraiser which you choose to protect me from even the appearance of a conflict of interest. With an appraisal bought by you from an appraiser who have chosen, reduces the appearance of a conflict of interest as a third neutral party has shwon that the selling price was fair.
In the past (way before the 2008 financial crisis), listing agents would provide the appraiser with the sales contract to help them to appraise the property very near to the agreed selling price ( the lender not minding, depending on the lender and loan type). I believe that today, the appraiser would be more conservative in their evaluations and tread very carefully, but this also depends on the lender and loan type (FHA/VA, Conv etc.), the down payment, etc. I am mentioning this because if your agent knows the appraiser, or even worked with him/her in the past, this could appear to create a possible conflict of interest. Let me add that appraisers are very professional and use a lot of factors and variables to reach a property value for the benefit of the lender. I would not expect any foul play from an appraiser, same for Real Estate Brokers (your agent's boss). Perhaps today the listing or selling agent no longer have knowledge of who the appraiser will be. Now, if your agent is also the broker and sole agent in their firm and their spouse or business partner is the appraiser, then watch out.
In the end though, the goal is for all parties to be satisfied with the price and feel that they were treated fair.
With all of the the above, let me add that I am no longer a licensed agent, and only was one back in the 90s for a few years. I forgot a lot more than I knew back then and I was merely an agent and not a Broker. So the above is just my [now] laymen's opinion.
IMHO, there could be a possible conflict of interest if your listing agent wishes to purchase your house. Your agent knows all the reason why you want to sell and knows your lowest price, all the details they would never share with a buyer or Buyer's agent. All agents have a Broker, the head boss of the office, and is the one responsible for the actions of their agents. I would speak to your agents Broker to get their opinion about the matter.
IMHO, this is like your defense attorney, whom you told all your secrets and details, now switching to the prosecutors side at your trial.
We need more info though:
What type of listing do you have?
Example: Exclusive right to sell, Exclusive agency listing,
Open listing, Net listing.
Which state is this in? (Net Listing not allowed in some states, there may be other rules regarding conflict of interest as well).
How much is the listing commission rate? (to see if it is enough that will attract a Buyer's agent. Perhaps a reason your property is not attracting buyers).
What is the name or franchise of the company/brokerage firm that your property is listed with?
Have you seen the MLS listing of your property? (the one where agents list properties so other agents can see them, and only agents have access to all the details of a listing. This will show the coop fee, as a %, offered).
If have seen it, what is the co-op commission rate? (the amount the listing agent is sharing with buyer's agents).
These are important bits of information to determine how your agent is representing you and presenting, and advertising, your property to other agents and the public.
Even if your agent buys it, a commission will still need to be paid (depends on the listing type) to the Broker of the company your listing is with (unless your agent is the Broker and owns the firm, may be other rules involved there too). Typically, after closing the Broker splits the commission with the listing agent along with the Broker of the Buyer's agents (if there is one). The ratio depends on the arrangement the agent and broker have and may differ if the agent is a party to the transaction (actual buyer or seller).
If you do sell to your agent, the Broker may insist that another agent in the office represent you as your Seller's agent. It may even be possible that your agent's Broker insist that your listing be removed from their office and your property listed with a competing office to ensure there is no conflict of interest, or you being represented by a real estate attorney. Even the appearance of a conflict of interest is something to be avoided by Brokers.
Another issue is to ensure a fair value, the appraisal:
Typically, the Buyer pays for the appraisal, required by the lender (pending on the amount put down etc.). But since your listing agent wishes to buy your house, you may well want to have your own appraisal done. If I was the Broker of your agent/buyer, I'd want you to have one done by an appraiser which you choose to protect me from even the appearance of a conflict of interest. With an appraisal bought by you from an appraiser who have chosen, reduces the appearance of a conflict of interest as a third neutral party has shwon that the selling price was fair.
In the past (way before the 2008 financial crisis), listing agents would provide the appraiser with the sales contract to help them to appraise the property very near to the agreed selling price ( the lender not minding, depending on the lender and loan type). I believe that today, the appraiser would be more conservative in their evaluations and tread very carefully, but this also depends on the lender and loan type (FHA/VA, Conv etc.), the down payment, etc. I am mentioning this because if your agent knows the appraiser, or even worked with him/her in the past, this could appear to create a possible conflict of interest. Let me add that appraisers are very professional and use a lot of factors and variables to reach a property value for the benefit of the lender. I would not expect any foul play from an appraiser, same for Real Estate Brokers (your agent's boss). Perhaps today the listing or selling agent no longer have knowledge of who the appraiser will be. Now, if your agent is also the broker and sole agent in their firm and their spouse or business partner is the appraiser, then watch out.
In the end though, the goal is for all parties to be satisfied with the price and feel that they were treated fair.
With all of the the above, let me add that I am no longer a licensed agent, and only was one back in the 90s for a few years. I forgot a lot more than I knew back then and I was merely an agent and not a Broker. So the above is just my [now] laymen's opinion.
Last edited:
Sunset
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Exactly.
I had experience of a realtor blocking an offer on a house I sold, without telling me until after the house was sold and she was blabbing on, and let it slip.
It's easy for a realtor to prevent showings of the house or kill offers.
For example:
Simply telling the buyer agent that the seller is difficult to deal with and will only accept full price offers with no inspection contingencies would kill most if not all offers.
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The original post here is so vague, we're assuming so much without more info:
"Expressed an interest" - what did he say exactly? Was this offhand and sloppy, or indicative that he's actually considering buying? Is he a multiple-property owner already - a landlord, a flipper? Easy enough to google. How well are you priced vs. comps (5 mins on zillow will tell you)?
If you're competitively priced in a good selling market and getting showings but not getting buyers, you might have an issue (with either the home or the realtor), but we can't possibly know without more context here.
I'd like to know more about the conversation. If I'm trying to sell my house in 2019, and a couple of months goes by, and my realtor makes a comment indicating interest.. I would have probed right away. Stuff like "well are you interested in making an offer?" - then see where that went. He'll either back off and show he was just talking out of his bum, maybe even trying to boost your low spirits from not selling by now, or show his true colors by trying to low ball you, and then you can proceed accordingly.
Not enough info to condemn your realtor yet. So much more needed to fill in the blanks vs. our imaginations of the worst.
"Expressed an interest" - what did he say exactly? Was this offhand and sloppy, or indicative that he's actually considering buying? Is he a multiple-property owner already - a landlord, a flipper? Easy enough to google. How well are you priced vs. comps (5 mins on zillow will tell you)?
If you're competitively priced in a good selling market and getting showings but not getting buyers, you might have an issue (with either the home or the realtor), but we can't possibly know without more context here.
I'd like to know more about the conversation. If I'm trying to sell my house in 2019, and a couple of months goes by, and my realtor makes a comment indicating interest.. I would have probed right away. Stuff like "well are you interested in making an offer?" - then see where that went. He'll either back off and show he was just talking out of his bum, maybe even trying to boost your low spirits from not selling by now, or show his true colors by trying to low ball you, and then you can proceed accordingly.
Not enough info to condemn your realtor yet. So much more needed to fill in the blanks vs. our imaginations of the worst.
ivinsfan
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I'm thinking this is a drive by thread, haven't heard once from the OP after 40 comments, several of the comments asked for a little more info. I think I'm done here.
gwraigty
Thinks s/he gets paid by the post
Good observation. It has been interesting reading though.
HI Bill
Thinks s/he gets paid by the post
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I'd recommend looking up comps yourself, ensuring that the listed price is reasonable.
If you agree to sell to the listing agent, I'd gain a concession of a rebate equal to the buyer's agent's fee (e.g., 3%; the listing agent's fee still applies), and go with it, especially if the market is soft where you are. Seems like a win-win, regardless of apparent conflict of interest.
However, note that the realtor may have inside information about the house's condition, and may try to negotatiate concessions in the event the home inspection shows up anything. I definitely wouldn't feel comfortable in such a situation. If the agent wants the house, they're counting on 2x commissions, and a good deal on the price as well, or it wouldn't be worth their time. They'll likely relist and flip it.
If you agree to sell to the listing agent, I'd gain a concession of a rebate equal to the buyer's agent's fee (e.g., 3%; the listing agent's fee still applies), and go with it, especially if the market is soft where you are. Seems like a win-win, regardless of apparent conflict of interest.
However, note that the realtor may have inside information about the house's condition, and may try to negotatiate concessions in the event the home inspection shows up anything. I definitely wouldn't feel comfortable in such a situation. If the agent wants the house, they're counting on 2x commissions, and a good deal on the price as well, or it wouldn't be worth their time. They'll likely relist and flip it.
LOL!
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I am aware of a realtor buying the house they had listed. They got it for a steal because the owner/divorcee was running out of money and could not pay the mortgage and could not make repairs either. The realtor renovated, rented, then sold the house.
The good thing for the neighbors was that all our property taxes went down because this house sold for much less than all recent comps and that got figured into our assessments. But then the prop taxes are back up after the realtor sold the house.
The good thing for the neighbors was that all our property taxes went down because this house sold for much less than all recent comps and that got figured into our assessments. But then the prop taxes are back up after the realtor sold the house.
Murph
Recycles dryer sheets
Just say no...,,
....or prepare to be low-balled. Significantly.
....or prepare to be low-balled. Significantly.
Murph
Recycles dryer sheets
Sorry for the delay; kids, college, life intervened. Bottom line - we have entered into a contract with our RE agent for what I feel is a fair price for both parties. I am confident that nothing improper is being done. Thanks to all who responded. This was the only firm offer we have received, we are motivated to move, so I feel good about it. Onward and upward.
It is my personal opinion that no realtor/agent represents anyone's interest but their own. Some are better at masking this than others. The only way to protect one's self is to be knowledgeable and educated and not to rely without independent verification on anything a realtor/agents says or does concerning a transaction.
As a Seller my goal is to get the highest price. As a Buyer my goal is to get the lowest price. A realtor/agent's goal is to achieve a "deal" with price only being relevant to get to that goal. The typical agent (assuming there is a listing and selling broker) realizes 1.25-1.5% from a sale (25% of the full commission). Certainly there is some variation in this.
So a $30,000 in increase in sale price nets the Seller in the neighborhood of $28,500. However, the $30,000 increase in price only nets each agent about $300-$400.00. It is far more important for the agents to "cut a deal" at any price the Seller will accept so that they realize a commission. Realtors/Agents are not willing to risk their commission to get a higher price. It simply isn't worth the risk to the agent to have a Buyer walk and lose a commission. So when a realtor says "it is a good deal" I pay no attention either as a Buyer or a Seller.
I see realtors as necessary to access the MLS but it is important to balance their opinions (particularly as to price and value) through the above filter. Although, Zillow and Trulia are helpful the MLS is still a required marketing tool.
As a Seller my goal is to get the highest price. As a Buyer my goal is to get the lowest price. A realtor/agent's goal is to achieve a "deal" with price only being relevant to get to that goal. The typical agent (assuming there is a listing and selling broker) realizes 1.25-1.5% from a sale (25% of the full commission). Certainly there is some variation in this.
So a $30,000 in increase in sale price nets the Seller in the neighborhood of $28,500. However, the $30,000 increase in price only nets each agent about $300-$400.00. It is far more important for the agents to "cut a deal" at any price the Seller will accept so that they realize a commission. Realtors/Agents are not willing to risk their commission to get a higher price. It simply isn't worth the risk to the agent to have a Buyer walk and lose a commission. So when a realtor says "it is a good deal" I pay no attention either as a Buyer or a Seller.
I see realtors as necessary to access the MLS but it is important to balance their opinions (particularly as to price and value) through the above filter. Although, Zillow and Trulia are helpful the MLS is still a required marketing tool.
jIMOh
Thinks s/he gets paid by the post
jIMOh
Thinks s/he gets paid by the post
+1
the seller needs to know what the property is worth.
In your situation if you have a higher value/ amount than house is worth, you might be in situation of OP
OP did not state what house is listed at, what zillow shows, or what comps are in the area.
The last two times I listed a house it sold within 7 days- clearly listed at right price in reasonable condition.
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