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Old 12-01-2017, 08:55 PM   #21
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No one is forcing anything, trying to guide her to understand the size of the gift she has received and comprehend it in terms of delayed gratification for her own future. This has a lot to do with the trust, because there is not another one coming if she screws this one up.

I don’t like at all that you assume that is my intent.
I'm confused does this mean your sister is getting a lump sum? Then its out of your hands. And your sister has had drug problem for many years, do you think she is capable of thinking about "delayed gratification".
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Old 12-01-2017, 09:04 PM   #22
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I'm confused does this mean your sister is getting a lump sum? Then its out of your hands. And your sister has had drug problem for many years, do you think she is capable of thinking about "delayed gratification".


She gets the money in whatever amounts i see fit. Lump, over years, whatever. Yes she is capable, but drugs and emotions always make that difficult. Hoping against hope that her obscene fixation on this money motivates her to take control of herself and have a chance at a decent life.
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Old 12-01-2017, 09:05 PM   #23
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If it is not too late, have the grantor add a conditions that receipt of benefits from the trust are conditioned on her being clean, regular drug tests and periodic random drug tests, provisions for money to be used for treatment if she fails drug testing, etc.

That way, when she rails against the conditions you, as the trustee, impose, you can claim that it was grandpa's fault and so be it... the most important thing is her to get and stay clean and if she is mad about how the condition of the trust infringe on her life then so be it.
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Old 12-01-2017, 09:09 PM   #24
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She gets the money in whatever amounts i see fit. Lump, over years, whatever. Yes she is capable, but drugs and emotions always make that difficult. Hoping against hope that her obscene fixation on this money motivates her to take control of herself and have a chance at a decent life.
Is this your only sibling,you're in a tough spot here,your relationship might never be the same.Good luck..
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Old 12-01-2017, 09:13 PM   #25
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My friend is in a similar situation. He is the trustee of his brother's trust from their mother's inheritance. His brother is in his 40s but has never been a responsible person although not a drug addict. They got together with a fee based financial adviser so his brother can decide on the investment/asset allocation. It was all the brother's decision with some guidance from financial adviser and my friend. An amount of money is direct deposited to brother's account monthly from the trust.
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Old 12-01-2017, 09:21 PM   #26
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My friend is in a similar situation. He is the trustee of his brother's trust from their mother's inheritance. His brother is in his 40s but has never been a responsible person although not a drug addict. They got together with a fee based financial adviser so his brother can decide on the investment/asset allocation. It was all the brother's decision with some guidance from financial adviser and my friend. An amount of money is direct deposited to brother's account monthly from the trust.


Thats sounds like a pretty rational situation, and good solution. The thing with drugs is ration doesnt show up to the party. Its alternating drama and madness of someone who thinks about immediate problems and possibilities with little thought of next week or beyond.

I’d love that situation, but likely day 1 will be “give me my money”, followed by a slew of horrible things said she can never take back when i don’t just blindly agree.
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Old 12-01-2017, 11:12 PM   #27
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Sorry that OP is in a difficult situation.

For my friend, I think the amount that can be distributed is already determined by the trust mother setup before she passed away.
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Old 12-02-2017, 02:11 AM   #28
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Addicts don't manage money. They lose it, it gets stolen, or it goes to buy drugs.

Your family is placing you in a difficult position. You are expected to be the one to say no and dole out the money for things that are really needed without letting her have the money. That's a recipe for disaster. The addict will hate you, and the family's expectation that you will use the money to "take care of her" will not be met. In your shoes, I would ask to be removed from the position of being the trustee and that someone else, perhaps outside the family, become the trustee.
1++++++++++
Have a friend going thru a similar mess as a SS disability payee for a family member. Nothing but daily heartache and stress. SS is of no help whatsoever and dragged their feet on releasing her from payee status. When they finally did, SS froze all future benefits until they could find a new payee with no suggestions on how the recipient was to survive in the meantime.

(Classic example of a good person trying to help a loved one and getting hammered for it. "no good deed goes unpunished??")

I just thought this was an isolated situation, so I googled "how to get released from being a SS payee" and found this blog:
https://www.disability-benefits-help...forum-topic-97
The exact same payee remorse story over and over and over-"don't get between an addict/mentally ill person and their money." My friend will never be able to have a "normal" relationship with the family member recipient after all of the abusive phone calls and threats.

As others have suggested, let a professional payee take the arrows. It may cost a little money, but much of the money spent on "basic necessities" will be wasted by the recipient anyway. ( Recipient will return food and clothing to stores for credits to spend on other things, personal items will be given to "new friends", etc.)
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Old 12-02-2017, 06:15 AM   #29
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Agree that it might be best to decline appointment as trustee... you can do that... and have a pro put in place. Hopefully your sister will get mad at the pro when she doesn't get what she wants and you can preserve your relationship with her and be in a better position to help her. Tough love is required.
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Old 12-02-2017, 06:55 AM   #30
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How much control do you have? Any chance you can retain a liquid portion in the trust that you will only release for rehab while buying a single life immediate annuity with the bulk? That way, if she is going to continue down her path at least she will have a small income coming in and you won't be making her decisions with the accompanying fights.
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Old 12-02-2017, 07:36 AM   #31
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I feel your pain. I have one brother, age 55. He'd been an addict since age 14, sometimes functional sometimes not. He'd been in treatment since March and is currently in jail for dumb decisions made while under the influence. There is permanent damage from the drugs and even when he's clean he can't think clearly.

He inherited the family farm two years ago, debt free. He lost it last month. That lump sum of wealth almost got him killed, it enabled him to run with bigger drug dealers and they took his money and beat him up, robbed his house and threatened his family. They knew he had money and they wanted it, and got it.

I've been in your shoes. I highly recommend turning over fiduciary responsibility to an unrelated 3rd party. Go to an experienced trust department, most big banks have them. My brother called on me for financial advice and wouldn't listen. I hired a bankruptcy attorney for him and he won't listen to her either. Now he has to listen to the judge.

Sorry, I don't mean to hijack your thread to my brother. It is my personal opinion that in your situation everyone would be best off if a third party professional got involved. Look out for your own well being too. Good luck and best wishes.
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Old 12-02-2017, 07:53 AM   #32
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Thats sounds like a pretty rational situation, and good solution. The thing with drugs is ration doesnt show up to the party. Its alternating drama and madness of someone who thinks about immediate problems and possibilities with little thought of next week or beyond.

I’d love that situation, but likely day 1 will be “give me my money”, followed by a slew of horrible things said she can never take back when i don’t just blindly agree.
Did you see the multiple suggestions to turn over your trustee responsibilities to a third party? Or better, if the trust can still be modified, have it stipulated in the trust.

That solves so many issues for you. You are not coming between your sibling and what they see as "their money". A trust department will handle this unemotionally, and with fiduciary guidance. It's really pretty simple.

-ERD50
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Old 12-02-2017, 08:12 AM   #33
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I feel your pain. I have one brother, age 55. He'd been an addict since age 14, sometimes functional sometimes not. He'd been in treatment since March and is currently in jail for dumb decisions made while under the influence. There is permanent damage from the drugs and even when he's clean he can't think clearly.

He inherited the family farm two years ago, debt free. He lost it last month. That lump sum of wealth almost got him killed, it enabled him to run with bigger drug dealers and they took his money and beat him up, robbed his house and threatened his family. They knew he had money and they wanted it, and got it.

I've been in your shoes. I highly recommend turning over fiduciary responsibility to an unrelated 3rd party. Go to an experienced trust department, most big banks have them. My brother called on me for financial advice and wouldn't listen. I hired a bankruptcy attorney for him and he won't listen to her either. Now he has to listen to the judge.

Sorry, I don't mean to hijack your thread to my brother. It is my personal opinion that in your situation everyone would be best off if a third party professional got involved. Look out for your own well being too. Good luck and best wishes.
OP you are in a unwinnable situation, and I feel for you...

BUT....what the above poster says about the CRIMINALS that surround addicts is very important for YOU to understand.....

What happens when your sister starts complaining to her "friends" that her sibling is controlling what to HER may be a fortune....I would NOT want to be in your shoes. Drug addicts are scary people who will do anything to get money for thier addiction. I would not put my own family into this mess.

Either give up being responsible for the trust, or get ready for a possible raft of S****. In all likelihood, a long time addict's brain is ruined and will never be the same. If she's railing and violent NOW, what happens when she's whining to someone "Well my sibling has my inheritance and won't cough it up-let's go over and see if we can make him...."

Please take my advice. I have a mentally ill brother who I've tried to "fix" for 45 years. It will NOT happen. I still worry about him when I lie awake at nights. His brain is ruined. His life sucks. He is 70, and is in assisted living which is based on SSI and a small VA pension. I tried having him live with me for a while and it was a nightmare. I KNOW he'll never be normal, and I can't fix him, but that doesn't mean I don't have remorse over his wasted life.

Also, he could NOT inherit, or he would have lost his spot in this place, which would have been a disaster.

My brother is lost in a world of paranoid delusions, and I have long since stopped thinking HE wants to live a life of "normalcy". He cares NOT about his hygiene, surroundings, the outside world.

He is in his own world, and for YEARS I tried to mold his life into what I thought it should be. I won't even go into what it did to my Mom.

A drug addict with years of use is probably the same. The ONLY thing they care about it the next fix. A lay person can not even begin to heal her.

Please don't get between the addict and a pile of money. It will not be worth it, and YOU will suffer WAY more than your sister ever will. It's one thing to be the "bad guy" to her, but please think about the creeps she surrounds herself with every day. As for giving her a book...might as well give one to your dog-it'll get more out of it.

Good luck.
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Old 12-02-2017, 08:38 AM   #34
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Sorry. But you are the trustee of a trust for her. The trust presumably was already established by someone else. You must read, understand, and follow the rules established in the trust.

You are not her guardian. You are not her teacher.

You owe a fiduciary interest to manage the trust solely in her best interest. You can put her on an allowance from the trust (assuming that is permitted by the terms of the trust). You can give her all the money at one (assuming that is permitted). But you are required to choose what is in her best interest financially.

You almost certainly are not permitted to force her to read anything or learn anything.

And you cannot force her to make any decisions regarding the money in the trust, unless she is also a trustee.

If it were me, I'd just consider an allowance.

And I'd work on helping her any way I could - although that part has nothing at all to do with the trust.
This is only true if the (parents, I assume) have already passed. If not, and they want YOU to be responsible for it, no way I would take the "Sorry, you are the trustee...." crap.

Educate, and get it changed to something that can be managed, or tell them to find someone else. Otherwise (and probably even if you get it changed) you are in for a life of hardship and heartache with a 15 year addict.
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Old 12-02-2017, 09:42 AM   #35
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OP--
You have stated your sister is arguing with her dying grandfather over the money in the bedroom, and that she has an obscene fixation on the money. This does not sound like someone who is clean, sounds like she is already focused on her next fix, sorry to say.
I have worked with addicts for years. Until she is ready to stop for good, no money, no amount of begging, suggesting or forcing treatment will work.
As many have already said, in order to preserve your own sanity, I would encourage you to find another trustee. Keep yourself sane, safe, and separated from her inheritance. You can preserve your relationship with her so that when she is ready to remain clean, you are able to help as you wish, without the money between you.
Best wishes to you.
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Old 12-02-2017, 10:01 AM   #36
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I can only sympathize with you. My BFs brother was a drug addict and they each received about $200k when their parents died, but with no restrictions. Needless to say his brothers life spiraled out of control and he ended up spending 20 of his first 40 years in jail. It is a huge responsibility they put upon you as obviously giving a drug addict "unlimited" funds is basically a ticket to total destruction.

Maybe one option would be if you could lock it away in an annuity or something similar, that way there would be money there long term but not enough to truly do too much damage, it would also take some of the burden away from saying yes/no which obviously would mean constant fights. Then you could work on just being a supportive sister, trying what you can to get her the help she needs.
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Old 12-02-2017, 11:22 AM   #37
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Agreed. I don't think you can be rational with someone has addiction issues.



Could OP have a bank or other professional be the trustee? Yes, they will probably charge 1%, but then you are not between your sister and the money. That might put you in a better position to help her in other ways.



-ERD50


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Old 12-02-2017, 12:13 PM   #38
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Thats sounds like a pretty rational situation, and good solution. The thing with drugs is ration doesnt show up to the party. Its alternating drama and madness of someone who thinks about immediate problems and possibilities with little thought of next week or beyond.

I’d love that situation, but likely day 1 will be “give me my money”, followed by a slew of horrible things said she can never take back when i don’t just blindly agree.
Unfortunately, an addict doesn't change until he/she hits bottom. Giving a monthly allowance prolongs the agony of finding that bottom.

It would be better if there was no trust at all.

I
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Old 12-02-2017, 01:11 PM   #39
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Did you see the multiple suggestions to turn over your trustee responsibilities to a third party? Or better, if the trust can still be modified, have it stipulated in the trust.

That solves so many issues for you. You are not coming between your sibling and what they see as "their money". A trust department will handle this unemotionally, and with fiduciary guidance. It's really pretty simple.

-ERD50
The OP is in a no-win situation. The only options that would protect him/her going forward are to give it all to her, or turn it over to a trust and make it very clear to her that they no longer have any no control over the money.
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Old 12-02-2017, 02:31 PM   #40
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I worked in law enforcement for just under 30 years and have seen it from that perspective, but not in my family. Where I worked I talked with people who had spent well into six figures on rehab programs for family members who were addicts (and I've been retired for 15 years). I'd have to agree with the others that you do NOT want to put yourself in a position where you have even the ability, even without legal authority, to violate the terms of the trust and write checks on the trust account.

Drug dealers are nasty people. If they think you are standing between them and some money, especially lots of money, they will not hesitate for an instant to point a gun at your head, or your wife's head, and squeeze the trigger. Neither will a drug addict desperate for a fix.

Therefore I agree with the others who said you should run away from this situation. At the least your life will become filled with drama and stress you don't want or need to deal with. At worst it could get you killed. ER50 and others suggested going to a bank trust department and having them handle it. Yes they will charge fees but this is a situation where separating yourself from a stack of money will be well worth every nickel in fees.

Whatever you decide to do, I wish the best of luck to you.
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