Recent retiree -invest retirement $ at market top?

Started to DCA in today, and see what happened to the markets?! :cool:
Maybe that's all it took to get a correction started! :LOL:
Thanks for that. Today's action made my rebalancing posted in "LOL!'s Market Timing Newsletter" last week look good.
 
Comment I got from the boglehead forum from someone way smarter about finances than I am. Granted it was dealing with a much smaller amount of money but I think it still applies.

"You will not be using this money on the first day of your retirement so it may actually be invested for 20 or 30 years. Will the market be higher at that time than it is today? I hope so. If not, there is no reason to be investing at all."
 
Financial planners advised me to retire, based on their view that the trend in 2014 and beyond would be rising rates, which would eat into my retirement lump sum. Wrong so far, but maybe not for long -who knows.

Any help providing perspective, or recalibrating my psychology on this appreciated.
I guess this refers to the discount rate that would be used to convert your pension to a lump sum. I guess they are right in this one regard, providing they are right about their forecast of rising rates. However, if that were a gimme, the rates would already have risen.

I didn't notice if you said anything about your expenses or your retirement assets. But remember that the decision to retire and decisions about how to invest are two separate things. Nothing to stop you from staying in your money market fund when you retire. If you have adequate resources, it takes a long time to hurt yourself much solely from an under-earning portfolio. OTOH, a 50% drop the year after you retire can definitely smart a bit.

Ha
 
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Comment I got from the boglehead forum from someone way smarter about finances than I am. Granted it was dealing with a much smaller amount of money but I think it still applies.

"You will not be using this money on the first day of your retirement so it may actually be invested for 20 or 30 years. Will the market be higher at that time than it is today? I hope so. If not, there is no reason to be investing at all."

Sequence of Returns examples illustrate how devastating a bear market in the first few years of retirement are on your returns 20-30yr later. Therefore, although odds are good that the market will be higher in 20-30 years, when you invest can have a big impact. That's been the reason for my concern. Once invested I will hold -I just want to get started on the right foot.

It's not easy to follow the Conventional Wisdom and invest because "you can't predict the market" when you can't shake the feeling that a large correction is imminent. I can't predict the market, but by the same logic there's no assurance that in 1-2 years I won't regret investing now and that MM returns over that time would look good.

Regardless, I've started to DCA in, and I may be glad I did. :D
-or NOT! :(
 
Nothing to stop you from staying in your money market fund when you retire. If you have adequate resources, it takes a long time to hurt yourself much solely from an under-earning portfolio. OTOH, a 50% drop the year after you retire can definitely smart a bit.Ha

An under-earning portfolio vs a 50% drop was the basis for "standing-by" in MM. I decided I could do that for a year or so to wait for a correction, and it didn't cause much concern until now. I'm going to slowly DCA in and hope for the best.
 
An under-earning portfolio vs a 50% drop was the basis for "standing-by" in MM. I decided I could do that for a year or so to wait for a correction, and it didn't cause much concern until now. I'm going to slowly DCA in and hope for the best.

If you can live off all or mostly COLAed income streams like SS, TIPS, I bonds and pensions you may not have to invest in stocks at all. Then you don't have to worry about sequence of returns risk and losing 50% of your portfolio in any given year.
 
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If you have can live off all or mostly COLAed income streams like SS, TIPS, I bonds and pensions you may not have to invest in stocks at all. Then you don't have to worry about sequence of returns risk and losing 50% of your portfolio in any given year.

That would be nice, but I need to be in the stock market over the long term. I determined I would be OK standing by in MM for a year or so, assuming another year of 30% gains isn't in the cards.
 
If you have a lump sum in MM and the rates go up, wouldn't that be better for returns on cash?

Of course higher rates may mean higher inflation, eating into buying power of that cash.
 
I'll take the contrary view here... and agree with you (the original OP). There are very good reasons to be deeply concerned about current market conditions. There are some unique macro economic factors at play across the globe today. Some of us think they don't bode well.

Might stocks continue on their upward trajectory over the next 12-36 months? Sure, absolutely. And wouldn't it be deeply disappointing to miss out on, say, another 20+% bump. You bet.

But... is there an equal or better chance that they might tank, and might do so in a very serious way? Some of us think so.

Cash is not always a bad place to be.
 
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We sold off most of the stocks earlier in the year. We decided even a 15% drop would be equal to a number of years of low key retirement living expenses for us, and we'd rather not lose that kind of financial security at our ages.
 
Jager-

I've received a lot of wrist slaps for market timing in this thread, so thanks for your support! ;)

Investors enjoying big gains from the past 18mos find it much easier to shrug at the potential for a large correction.

Someone just retired and mostly in MM has a lot to think about when considering the possible outcomes of going all in right now to achieve their financial plan asset allocation in stocks/bonds!
 
Just watched a video by Robert Schiller and his view that we might be at a peak as well. One thing that occurred to me is that if you feel scared to invest you could step into the part of your allocation that is foreign stock based, where the CAPE is low. Then gingerly approach domestic. This might help you overcome the stuck feeling that you have.

The big question for you is, if you invest tomorrow, and the market dives 5-10%, will you sell again saying " I knew it". ;). Every one of us know what we are supposed to do, but actually doing it is different.
 
Watched the Schiller video.

The host, Aaron Task, called this "the most disbelievable market in recent memory".

That describes my thinking also.
 
I'll take the contrary view here... and agree with you (the original OP). There are very good reasons to be deeply concerned about current market conditions. There are some unique macro economic factors at play across the globe today. Some of us think they don't bode well.

Might stocks continue on their upward trajectory over the next 12-36 months? Sure, absolutely. And wouldn't it be deeply disappointing to miss out on, say, another 20+% bump. You bet.

But... is there an equal or better chance that they might tank, and might do so in a very serious way? Some of us think so.

Cash is not always a bad place to be.

Regarding the bolded part, don't mean to be flippant, but exactly when in history was this not true?
 
Yeah, and how has that concentration in cash and market timing worked for you the last 12, 24, 36 months?

and..... another wrist slap!

My pension lump sum was received 6 months ago, so it hasn't worked out quite as poorly as you suspect. ;)
 
Yeah, and how has that concentration in cash and market timing worked for you the last 12, 24, 36 months?


Yes but at this stage the imposing question I would be asking is : "was I wrong or was I just early?"

There's some good research out there that high CAPEs forecast low returns.
 
This morning Apple is trading at 90 bucks and change (after its 7-1 stock split a few weeks ago). Imagine that a little fairy came to you, whispered in your ear, and offered you the chance to buy it for, say, 10 bucks. Everything else exactly as it is today - sales and profit figures, anticipated next-quarter revenues, market share, product pipeline, book value, everything. Only difference is that you have a one-time opportunity to buy however many shares you want, at $10 per. What would you do?

Most of us would say "you betcha." Back up the truck. No brainer.

Now reverse things. Imagine that instead of 90 and change, Apple trades at $900 per share. Everything else the same. Are there any buyers?

Very doubtful.

Both prices are extreme to the point of being nonsensical, of course. My point only being that there is a price where most of us will buy, and most of us will sell.

The real, and broader, market is more challenging, of course, because we don't usually have such obvious extremes to guide our course. But the same premise applies. There are some market conditions which are conducive to future returns. And there are some market conditions which are not.

In the real world, determining that is very hard, of course. When to enter a market and when to exit is bound up in a host of factors, a great many of which are behavioral rather than economic. And so it is we end up with modern portfolio theory which circumvents the question altogether. Instead, it suggests as a solution that we stay invested all the time. That we remain in the markets, but with allocations that are uncorrelated. So when something is going down, something else is hopefully going up.

That works, after a fashion, of course.

And if that were all there were to it, I'd buy into it. I don't pretend that my emotional self is divorced from the picture when contemplating how to manage my portfolio.

Alas, I believe that there are unique and extenuating circumstances today that pose a grave threat to our financial health. Major economies today are more tightly interconnected than they have ever been. Keynesian solutions (with apologies to John Maynard, who I suspect would be aghast at some of the policies that today bear his name) are ascendent. And yet there is little economic traction that is resulting from those policies. Price discovery (through natural, organic interest rates) has been perverted. Which means that asset prices are distorted. The balance sheets of virtually all the central banks are a mess. The velocity of money has plummeted. And the zero bound of interest rates, everywhere, suggests that central banks have little left in the way of conventional monetary policy that they can apply.

Debt loads, everywhere, are at unsustainable levels. Sovereign debt, especially, is at a point where I do not believe it can be unwound without disruption.

There is a bigger game afoot, in other words, than what the S&P 500 will do next week, or next quarter. But it is a game in which the S&P 500 will likely be an early casualty.

I'm not one of those doom-and-gloom permabears who forever sees catastrophe around the corner. I spent most of my investing career fully invested in equities. All-in, as in 100%

I like investing in stocks more than anything else. I think, broadly, they are the best tool any of us have for building and maintaining wealth. Only, not right now.
 
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