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Old 02-17-2017, 06:11 PM   #161
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Just completed the 6 month process of college applications with DD. Attached is a spread sheet of the outcome for 10 of the 12 she applied to (still waiting to hear from the last 2). Notice I have her taking the $5,500 freshman loan and am including the $2,500 education tax credit that we wouldn't get if she was not going to college. She has a 3.9/4.3 GPA and as a result her merit scholarships/grants were pretty good. The cost you see is the cost to me.

College Applications.pdf

You can see from the chart that there are reasonable options, especially if she was to live at home and attend the local state university. That would essentially be free for me and cost her about 10K total in student loans.

My plan is to have her take out the maximum loan she can take in her name; which currently will be $27K for all for years. I'll pay the annual interest so she graduates with this debt. Monthly payments will be $270 for 10 years at today's rates. I believe that is reasonable and doable even with a 32K starting job. If she works during school, and I suspect she will, the student loan will be considerably less.

It's anecdotal, but it's probably not as bad as some might expect based on what you see in the media. At least not for a student who has applied themselves in HS.
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Old 02-17-2017, 06:59 PM   #162
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Financial aid is a scam.
Warning big brag coming..

Remember no academic scholarships for top Universities.
DD is attending #8 & #17 ranked University in the Nation and World respectively for about $20K out of pocket. State school (only 1 real choice others are a joke) ranked #159 & #666. With Academic Scholarship (didn't qualify financial) would have cost about $10K after an $18K scholarship.

So son who isn't as academically gifted will be faced with paying almost 50% higher rate for a school that has about 2% of the marketability. For a total of $100K for 4 years!

Fully support and think it is tougher on kids today to get a good start in life then years past.
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Old 02-17-2017, 09:39 PM   #163
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Who says they aren't producing?

Some of them also own the place. Investment bankers, surgeons, CEOs, high profile lawyers, partners in management firms, professors, ..
I guess by the time you become a geezer you had better have figured out how to become a part owner, otherwise you get squeezed out.
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Old 02-17-2017, 09:45 PM   #164
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Employees aren't commodities and ultimately companies are only as good as their employees. You can't go out and find X identical skill sets and the same character and take the cheapest one. If you find good employees you had better figure out how to keep them, and get rid of the ones who aren't good enough. Treating employees like commodities is not a good way to retain your best talent, but that seems to be more and more common these days. Very short-sighted.
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Old 02-17-2017, 10:57 PM   #165
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Originally Posted by Lucky-Sperm-Club View Post

The numbers::
Tuition in 1992 about= $15,000
Pell grant =$2300
GS9 Salary about =$32,000

Tuition in 2017=$51,950 3.14 times higher 214% increase
Pell Grant 2017=$5,775 2.5 times higher 150% increase
GS9 Salary 2017=$42,823 1.3 times higher 30% increase




Quote:
Originally Posted by LOL! View Post
No one is forced to pay $51,950 a year in college tuition. There are certainly state flagship universities where tuition is one-fifth that amount.



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Originally Posted by Al in Ohio View Post
Name just 5 in the USA? Provide documentation. Include room and board, since for 95% of students that usually applies.


Kinda see the difference in the first two and yours I do... so does others...

Nobody said the cost was $51K all in... and nobody said that you could get it at 1/5th of that amount all in... except YOU....

Tuition for the University of Texas is around $10K.... for tuition... which is, BTW, less than 1/5th which is what was mentioned... so you now have at least two who are less than 1/5th...

OH... BTW, looked up Texas A&M and it is about the same, so now up to three... opps.... University of Houston is even less than these two... so now have four.... I am sure someone came come up with the fifth...

Cost for UT....
$22,012

Texas Residents
  • Tuition: $9,806
  • Books and Supplies: $750
  • Other Fees: $0
  • Room and Board: $11,456
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Old 02-18-2017, 07:33 AM   #166
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Kinda see the difference in the first two and yours I do... so does others...

Nobody said the cost was $51K all in... and nobody said that you could get it at 1/5th of that amount all in... except YOU....

Tuition for the University of Texas is around $10K.... for tuition... which is, BTW, less than 1/5th which is what was mentioned... so you now have at least two who are less than 1/5th...

OH... BTW, looked up Texas A&M and it is about the same, so now up to three... opps.... University of Houston is even less than these two... so now have four.... I am sure someone came come up with the fifth...

Cost for UT....
$22,012

Texas Residents
  • Tuition: $9,806
  • Books and Supplies: $750
  • Other Fees: $0
  • Room and Board: $11,456
Tuition for those not fortunate enough to live in Texas or have the option of a top state university in their state Texas A&M Tuition =$30,208 all in it=$47,386. Our only state university ranks 166 and costs $12,844 for residents, and other states have worse choices.

The discussion was relative cost and difficulty of getting started in life for the next generation. I took it to reflect the run away cost of college education.
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Old 02-18-2017, 01:10 PM   #167
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[QUOTE=imoldernu;1838129]The business section of this morning's Chicago Tribune had an interesting article that compares the financial situation of millennials with that of their boomer parents. While the article is geared to personal stories, the numbers appear to be real, and to me, disturbing.
Though we're from the silent generation, looking back at when we were in our twenties, the economy was promising, and afforded us a decent salary as well as an affordable lifestyle. Perhaps, even more than that, a bright outlook for the future.
The dollar differences, while shown on an annual basis are wide enough, but the lower income in today's economy does not augur well for building a financial base for the future.







Shareholder value is a business term, sometimes phrased as shareholder value maximization or as the shareholder value model, which implies that the ultimate measure of a company's success is the extent to which it enriches shareholders.

In a nutshell this greedy business school excuse to squeeze workers both white collar and blue collar again and again has destroyed the American standard of living over the last 30 to 40 years.

The millennial generation is just getting killed by corporate greed. Pay a damn living wage corporate America!

Thank God wages cannot go any lower. Except in the Southern states!
We have hit the bottom.

And please old timers in this community please don't tell stories about big boy pants and walking 10 miles to school. Seriously, don't compare your decade to 2017.

And yes I am old enough to probably be an old timer and I humble myself everyday when I look at my portfolio balance. But I am just lucky.
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Old 02-18-2017, 01:27 PM   #168
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Tuition for those not fortunate enough to live in Texas or have the option of a top state university in their state Texas A&M Tuition =$30,208 all in it=$47,386. Our only state university ranks 166 and costs $12,844 for residents, and other states have worse choices.

The discussion was relative cost and difficulty of getting started in life for the next generation. I took it to reflect the run away cost of college education.

But that is not what was challenged.... what was challenged was your stmt of tuition... and someone said you could pay 1/5th of what you listed for tuition at some schools... someone said that was not true and to prove it... but they wanted proof of total cost of education when you did not provide total cost... so an apple and orange comparison...

I understand that the main discussion was on relative costs, but the challenge was very specific on tuition...


So, what is the all in cost to attend your university For a Texas resident it is easy to find under $25K...

Here is a decent university that I attended.... lists annual cost of $17K for in state and $27K for out of state.... so total cost is not quite 1/2 the cost of just tuition you mentioned....


Annual Prices

Residents of Texas pay an annual total price of $17,418 to attend Sam Houston State University on a full time basis. This fee is comprised of $5,172 for tuition, $8,676 room and board, $1,124 for books and supplies and $2,446 for other fees.
Out of state residents are charged a total cost of $26,778 which is 53.7% higher than Texas residents. The tuition charge is $14,532 while room and board is $8,676, books and supplies are $1,124 and other fees come in at $2,446.





Sam Houston State University - Net Price, Tuition, Cost to Attend, Financial Aid and Student Loans


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Old 02-18-2017, 01:59 PM   #169
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I did a little digging and it cost about $750 tuition for me to attend University of Wisconsin-Madison (a decent enough school) per year in 1972. I shared an apartment with 2 other guys and I think we each paid $50/mo rent. Mac and Cheese and hot dogs were standard fare so I suppose I spend an addition $50 to eat. So the total for a year was approx. $1650. Minimum wage was $1.60/hour. So it took about a thousand hours of work. Weekly I had to work 19 hours to cover the cost.

My daughters are going to State schools (not the flagship UW-Madison) and the cost is approximately $18,500. They make $8.50/hour. So they would need to work 43 hours/week to do the same that I did at 19 hours a week.

Yes Millennial's are at a disadvantage. And mainly it is because year after year the State has given a smaller and smaller share of the budget to higher education.
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Old 02-18-2017, 02:05 PM   #170
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I frankly cannot recall what I paid for my tuition, for undergraduate as well as graduate school. It would not matter anyway as I paid quite a bit less than the normal tuition, so the numbers could not be compared with anything. My parents were administrative staff of the state university, and back then they gave hefty discount to staff's children. Maybe it was 1/2?

About what I paid for my children, I can look that up, but the numbers would be a few years old. What the current tuition is, one can look up on the Web, but now that I am past that phase, I don't care that much.

Darn, another admission that my "superior memory" is not what I like to brag about and show off.

PS. By the way, what I and my 3 siblings paid for the university was quite affordable due to that discount. No community college here. We all lived at home, and only moved out after graduation, so it was as cheap as can be, and our home was only a few miles from school. Plus, I had to live at home and worked to help my parents with the living expenses. Their pay was not that great. And we could not afford to live on our own anyway while still in school.
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Old 02-18-2017, 03:16 PM   #171
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[QUOTE=purplesky;1840589]
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And please old timers in this community please don't tell stories about big boy pants and walking 10 miles to school.
Darn! I love those stories! They remind us that every generation contributes its fair share of humor.
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Old 02-18-2017, 03:46 PM   #172
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The idea that one can get a degree in engineering or any of the lab sciences, while working, is preposterous.....
My sister got her Masters in Chemistry while working full-time. I got my MBA while working full-time (and was actually classified as a full-time student at the same time). Not easy... but not preposterous either.
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Old 02-18-2017, 04:02 PM   #173
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Quote:
Originally Posted by LOL! View Post
No one is forced to pay $51,950 a year in college tuition. There are certainly state flagship universities where tuition is one-fifth that amount.
Quote:
Originally Posted by ERD50 View Post
Look back at the quote - the "$51,950 a year in college tuition" he replied to was for tuition only. ...
Quote:
Originally Posted by Al in Ohio View Post
....
COST PER YEAR TUITION AND EXPENSES FOR "THE" Ohio State University
Tuition and Fees In-state: $10,037 Out-of-state: $29,229....
Quote:
Originally Posted by LOL! View Post
Well, unless I have problems with reading comprehension, I think one of the schools with annual tuition less than one-fifth of $51,950 turns out to be "THE" Ohio State University unless you are trying to catch me with alternative facts. ...
Last I knew, $10,037 was less that one-fifth of $51,950, so why is LOL letting Al off the hook?
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Old 02-18-2017, 04:18 PM   #174
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Last I knew, $10,037 was less that one-fifth of $51,950, so why is LOL letting Al off the hook?
Because they agreed they had a problem with reading comprehension. You know it takes all kinds to have fun on the internet, so everyone else already saw the problem with someone's reading comprehension, so there is no point in making them look worse than they already do.

It was hilarious though to see the tuition for "THE" Ohio State University, wasn't it?
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Old 02-18-2017, 04:43 PM   #175
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Because they agreed they had a problem with reading comprehension. You know it takes all kinds to have fun on the internet, so everyone else already saw the problem with someone's reading comprehension, so there is no point in making them look worse than they already do.

It was hilarious though to see the tuition for "THE" Ohio State University, wasn't it?

So I just went to THE Ohio State University page and it costs over $25,000/year to go there. So now we are at 1/2 vice 1/5. Things are definitely not easier for millennial's. The formatting is a bit messy but the figures are straight from the University.




&nbspirect educational expenses Total paid directly to Ohio State $21,716 Tuition and fees $10,010 Room and board (on campus) $11,706
Total indirect expenses $4,104 Books and supplies $1,234 Miscellaneous/personal $2,870
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Old 02-18-2017, 05:44 PM   #176
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But the subject of debate was just tuition... not total cost.
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Old 02-18-2017, 06:05 PM   #177
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Well, unless I have problems with reading comprehension, I think one of the schools with annual tuition less than one-fifth of $51,950 turns out to be "THE" Ohio State University unless you are trying to catch me with alternative facts.

I've paid for two millennials to go to college. One of them graduated from one of those schools with purported Cost of Attendance of about $70,000. The other is getting through a school with $20,000 CoA. I am keenly aware of the cost of a college education because I've paid for 3 of them. I am keenly aware of the choices that are available, too.

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Over $25 grand would be only half, not one fifth. So yes. Let's call it comprehension failure rather than alternate facts. Cause facts IS facts!


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Originally Posted by LOL! View Post
Because they agreed they had a problem with reading comprehension. You know it takes all kinds to have fun on the internet, so everyone else already saw the problem with someone's reading comprehension, so there is no point in making them look worse than they already do.

It was hilarious though to see the tuition for "THE" Ohio State University, wasn't it?

Had to go back and read it LOL, but I think he was saying you had the problem with comprehension, not that he did.... now, maybe I am not reading it correctly, but I think I am.... maybe Al can chime in and answer if he was comprehending wrong or you were...
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Old 02-18-2017, 06:54 PM   #178
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Had to go back and read it LOL, but I think he was saying you had the problem with comprehension, not that he did.... now, maybe I am not reading it correctly, but I think I am.... maybe Al can chime in and answer if he was comprehending wrong or you were...
Of course he doesn't think he has a problem. Why would he? He can't recognize the problem in the first place, but it seems the rest of the readers of this thread see the problem. Don't be so harsh on him. He can't help it, so let's stop picking on him.
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Old 02-19-2017, 12:01 AM   #179
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The OP started with a comparison of millennials who are already working to the earlier generations when at the same age. The working millennials are not doing as well as their parents did, and it was suggested that the recent recessions are the cause.

The thread then migrated to college costs and the rise in tuition. It is indisputable that tuition has gone up far more than inflation. And I found the statistics on student loans on the Federal Reserve site. It looks bleak. Over the last 10 years, the student loan balance has grown 3 times, and is now at more than 1.4 trillion. I do not see any effect of the Great Recession of 2007-2008 here; the chart just ramps straight up.

Heavier debt for a lower starting salary? Details are at https://fred.stlouisfed.org/series/SLOAS.

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Old 02-19-2017, 03:16 AM   #180
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College costs today are insane these days. I worked FT and went to school at night, taking advantage of employer tuition reimbursement program. Worked 50-55 hours a week to secure much needed OT. Went straight into MBA after undergrad, then had a heart attack (go figure) from burning the candle at both ends for too long. That was many years ago. Parlayed all that into a great job(s) at mega-corp and retiring this year at 60. No student loans helped this single income family attain FI.

Now, my dad, he really had it made....
Dual major undergrad - economics and climate change. Most of us would know these as the Great Depression and the Dust Bowl.
He went on to get his grad degree in conflict resolution with international travel. Otherwise known as WWll (Pacific theater), with stops at tropical paradises like, among others, Guadalcanal.
I think each generation has its own unique challenges; and those challenges might be difficult for preceding generations to understand.

FYI - it was at Guad - the US military decided to quit taking POW's (Pacific theater) due to the atrocities inflicted on captured/surrendering GI's. In Europe, war correspondents (like our dear friend, the late Andy Rooney) often traveled with front line units; it the Pacific, not so much - see first sentence of this paragraph.
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