retirement Outside the US More Rhetoric than Reality

[MichaelB]

Quote:

Originally Posted by ItDontMeanAThing Everybody has their own list, I found mine changed after living in Thailand for 2 years and the Phils for 1.5: Some cultural features are tolerable, but I'd never settle in a place unless the following were far enough from my residence that if I noticed them, it would be barely. From what I've seen of Thailand, that means living in a walled expat community. - The concept of 'too loud' doesn't exist. - Packs of street dogs. - Daily trash burning. - Land use zoning.

That's tough but I recall these being problems around Latin America as well. The trash burning was really nasty and at times during the summer in Caracas when water was scarce the landfill where they dumped the trash would catch fire and burn for days.

[REWahoo]

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Originally Posted by haha Unless the soil is perfect, septic systems stink! (Literally sometimes, and figuratively always.)

Ha, not only do you not need perfect soil to have an odorless septic system, you don't need any soil at all. We live atop a solid mound of rock (limestone) covered by a few inches of topsoil, and our aerobic septic system works great. No stink, no smell at all...

[haha]

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Originally Posted by REWahoo Ha, not only do you not need perfect soil to have an odorless septic system, you don't need any soil at all. We live atop a solid mound of rock (limestone) covered by a few inches of topsoil, and our aerobic septic system works great. No stink, no smell at all...

Very interesting, thanks for the info. What do you do with the waste water in very thin soil?

Ha

[REWahoo]

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Originally Posted by haha What do you do with the waste water in very thin soil?

The treated waste water feeds a couple of pop-up sprinklers that keep the grass and trees watered at behind our house. The sprinklers are set to go off once every 24 hours to empty the water tank. The final step in the process continuously injects a small amount of chlorine into the pipe leading to the sprinkler heads.

State law requires a licensed septic technician (looking for a job?) inspect the system once every four months to insure it is working properly. We sign an annual maintenance/inspection contract each December with a company to take care of the system for us. Annual cost for the contract is about $250 and repairs and parts (filters, diffuser, etc.) average another $150 or so. I consider it a small price to pay to have someone take care of our **** for us.

[W2R]

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Originally Posted by REWahoo Annual cost for the contract is about $250 and repairs and parts (filters, diffuser, etc.) average another $150 or so. I consider it a small price to pay to have someone take care of our **** for us.

Amazing system! It costs several times our cost for city water and sewage here, which surprises me; but then these services aren't an option in some locations.

[REWahoo]

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Originally Posted by W2R Amazing system! It costs several times our cost for city water and sewage here, which surprises me; but then these services aren't an option in some locations.

Your water and sewer costs are substantially lower than those of us pay who live in more arid locations. Excluding the cost of lawn irrigation, we were paying more than $600 for city services, and that was more than 10 years ago.

[W2R]

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Originally Posted by REWahoo Your water and sewer costs are substantially lower than those of us pay who live in more arid locations. Excluding the cost of lawn irrigation, we were paying more than $600 for city services, and that was more than 10 years ago.

Wow! That's a lot, I agree. I don't really remember what we paid in BCS, but I think we had more rainfall even there than you do in your location. San Diego (Spring Valley) was probably the dryest location I have ever lived in but with an infant I had other things on my mind than the water bill.

[kcowan]

Quote:

Originally Posted by ItDontMeanAThing Everybody has their own list, I found mine changed after living in Thailand for 2 years and the Phils for 1.5: Some cultural features are tolerable, but I'd never settle in a place unless the following were far enough from my residence that if I noticed them, it would be barely. From what I've seen of Thailand, that means living in a walled expat community. - The concept of 'too loud' doesn't exist. - Packs of street dogs. - Daily trash burning. - Land use zoning. Other criteria: - High standard of medical facilities within an hour travel time. - Airport within 4 hours travel. I expect that time will shrink if my health declines. - An active local expat forum so I can ask 'where can I buy X' type questions. - A visa with permission to stay in chunks no shorter than a year, where the continuation of this privilege is routine for those who have kept their nose out of trouble. - A noticeable population of European or American expats. - In or within an hour of a regional travel hub, be it air, rail, ferry or bus, or on a mainline between hubs. ...

Pretty good list. Does apply to most remote areas. But gated communities is not the only solution in Mexico. We would add:
- Access to American TV
- Reasonable trip for relatives/friends
- Good selection of varied restaurants at reasonable prices
- Good markets with gringo foods, e.g. salami, sweet pickles
- Good local transit system, e.g. bus from PV to GDL for $15 (senior's price)
- Selection of local language training schools
- Lots of activity outlets for gringos, e.g. golf, billiards, tennis...

[Koolau]

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Originally Posted by kcowan Pretty good list. Does apply to most remote areas. But gated communities is not the only solution in Mexico. We would add: - Access to American TV - Reasonable trip for relatives/friends - Good selection of varied restaurants at reasonable prices - Good markets with gringo foods, e.g. salami, sweet pickles - Good local transit system, e.g. bus from PV to GDL for $15 (senior's price) - Selection of local language training schools - Lots of activity outlets for gringos, e.g. golf, billiards, tennis...

My first requirement would be: Relatively low violent-crime rate. Not as worried about property crimes, though they can also be disturbing. Where the "haves" and "have nots" are intimately mingled, there seems to be a near universal acceptance (by the population and therefore by the authorities) of property crime. I don't think that can be escaped in most third world countries nor many places now in the USA. I'm certain there are esceptions - especially where cultural values make crime a more shameful activity. Property crime is a significant issue in Hawaii (Oahu for certain). Mostly, this seems related to the drug crime issue. In making a decision to move OUS (or even within the US) the ability to get accurate crime statistics would be critical to me. YMMV

[Ed_The_Gypsy]

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Originally Posted by MichaelB Ed, noisy neighbors are a problem everywhere. Where are you going to go?

Hunker down with a bunch of old people, I suppose.

We live in a pretty quiet neighborhood in a pretty quiet town today and she wants to stay there. We could move out into the county. Moo.

[james7]

Quote:

Originally Posted by ItDontMeanAThing Everybody has their own list, I found mine changed after living in Thailand for 2 years and the Phils for 1.5: Some cultural features are tolerable, but I'd never settle in a place unless the following were far enough from my residence that if I noticed them, it would be barely. From what I've seen of Thailand, that means living in a walled expat community. - The concept of 'too loud' doesn't exist. - Packs of street dogs. - Daily trash burning. - Land use zoning. Other criteria: - High standard of medical facilities within an hour travel time. - Airport within 4 hours travel. I expect that time will shrink if my health declines. - An active local expat forum so I can ask 'where can I buy X' type questions. - A visa with permission to stay in chunks no shorter than a year, where the continuation of this privilege is routine for those who have kept their nose out of trouble. - A noticeable population of European or American expats. - In or within an hour of a regional travel hub, be it air, rail, ferry or bus, or on a mainline between hubs. I don't use squat toilets but do squat to do my hand laundry and dishes in tubs on the balcony (I don't have a kitchen). I think the squatting helps my back.

Your post brings up another interesting feature that I have not seen mentioned in this forum when discussing overseas retirement, packs of street dogs. Wild, homeless dogs roaming the streets of cities and towns are a big problem in many developing countries and has been a factor in deterring us from retiring abroad.


Another article on retiring overseas:
Cheap and Colorful, an Overseas Home Beckons
http://www.nytimes.com/2012/05/10/business/retirementspecial/cheap-and-colorful-an-overseas-home-beckons.html?nl=your-money&emc=your-moneyemb1_20120521

[Khufu]

Quote:

Originally Posted by ItDontMeanAThing Everybody has their own list, I found mine changed after living in Thailand for 2 years and the Phils for 1.5: Some cultural features are tolerable, but I'd never settle in a place unless the following were far enough from my residence that if I noticed them, it would be barely. From what I've seen of Thailand, that means living in a walled expat community. - The concept of 'too loud' doesn't exist. - Packs of street dogs. - Daily trash burning. - Land use zoning.

The Thais actually seem to like noise, don't they? My favorite is browsing in a department store while some Thai girl 5 feet away is screaming into a microphone flogging some product or other. As for the dogs, trash and land use requirements, well, it wouldn't be the Third World anymore. The street dogs are a big problem because of the high incidence of rabies.

Could be worse. Compared to Latin America there isn't much of a crime problem.

It's possible to find quiet places to live in Thailand. We did, but you have to be ready to move if it changes.

[Khufu]

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Originally Posted by Koolau My first requirement would be: Relatively low violent-crime rate. Not as worried about property crimes, though they can also be disturbing. Where the "haves" and "have nots" are intimately mingled, there seems to be a near universal acceptance (by the population and therefore by the authorities) of property crime. I don't think that can be escaped in most third world countries nor many places now in the USA. I'm certain there are esceptions - especially where cultural values make crime a more shameful activity.

My own view is that polarization of wealth alone is not sufficient to generate a high crime rate: you also need a breakdown in social cohesion. Latin America reminds us of Thailand in a lot of ways, a similar concentration of wealth, for example. But in Thailand crime is just not much of a problem for expats. Here in Bangkok the expats never mention crime. The difference appears to be that the average Thai buys into his culture to a much higher degree than the average Ecuadorean, who hasn't forgotten the Conquest or the fact that the conquerors became the upper class. Actually, Thailand does have a very high homicide rate, but that seldom seems to involve foreigners.

At least so far. There is a growing political and class conflict in Thailand that could mean changes down the road.

[kcowan]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Koolau ...Where the "haves" and "have nots" are intimately mingled, there seems to be a near universal acceptance (by the population and therefore by the authorities) of property crime. I don't think that can be escaped in most third world countries nor many places now in the USA. ...

and Canada. Juxtapose wealthy with poor and you get property crimes. The Jane-Finch area of Toronto is such an example. Yet Toronto is considered a safe city in general. So far, they have not resorted to gated communities to solve it.

[walkinwood]

Saw this article today. It is pretty lightweight, but thought it would be a good addition to this thread.

What's Driving Americans to Retire Abroad? Money -- or Lack of It - Knowledge@Wharton

I'm always skeptical when people claim huge increases in the near future - 350,000 to 3,000,000! Who knows?

Quote:

The precise number of people retired overseas is hard to come by. About 350,000 American retirees receive Social Security benefits in countries other than the U.S., according to the Social Security Administration's annual statistical supplement. The majority of those people live in Europe, Canada and Mexico. Anecdotal evidence suggests that this number will rise: As many as 3.3 million American baby boomers are planning to retire abroad, according to figures from Travel Market Report, the industry publication. Three years ago, the paid subscription base of International Living, a magazine for retirees who live overseas or plan to, was 39,000; today, it's 80,000.

[arebelspy]

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Originally Posted by walkinwood I'm always skeptical when people claim huge increases in the near future - 350,000 to 3,000,000! Who knows?

I agree.

I think the key word in that quote is "planning," and it jives perfectly with the title of this thread.

[kumquat]

While it ain't the US, a friend (here in Canada) retired and decided he couldn't afford a Canadian retirement. He moved back to his native country (India). I've seen pictures of the place he rents for ~$500/mo and it would be about $2K here. Says he spends < $1K/mo. He does come back to Canada for a few months each year. Says it returns him to sanity.

I'm going for a visit in January so can verify the lifestyle if not the cost. As well, I won't freeze to death this January.

[Meadbh]

I hope your Indian friend's current lifestyle will not be eroded by inflation, currently 10% in India!

http://www.businessweek.com/news/201...ove-10-percent

[NYEXPAT]

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Originally Posted by arebelspy I agree. I think the key word in that quote is "planning," and it jives perfectly with the title of this thread.

The 350,000 is a fairly meaningless number as it does not account for:
Early retirees
Families only collecting one check
The SSA does not send checks to most countries oversea's

In most of LAM the retiree's are required to have their checks deposited in the USA and then either wire the money (if they can get a local account) use debit cards or zoom it.

[kcowan]

A friend lives in PV and has received his social security check since age 62. His offical address in his son's place in Texas. Once a year they drive into the US during the hottest weather in PV.

For us, we are happy to return to the organization NOTB once a year and then glad to return to the chaos when the chill sets in. We could handle a fulltime move but we will not do it as long as we can afford our current lifestyle.

Having seen Slum Dog Millionaire, I have no desire to go to India.