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Old 04-22-2018, 10:39 PM   #41
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And even while you are there to the degree that you can... it is stupid to have both your job/income and investments tied up in one company.
I took that gamble and won, leading to a very early retirement. It was a calculated risk as I was still young and had lots of career flexibility. Otherwise I would probably have been working a couple more decades like “normal” folks and still retiring a bit early.

I didn’t have my 401K invested in company stock, but my taxable investments dwarfed my 401K even though I had been maxing out as much as I could. And I did start diversifying away as I approached my target “magic” number and decided I could really pull this crazy early retirement thing off in a year or two.
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Old 04-23-2018, 01:28 AM   #42
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Good move on the mortgage. Like everything else, fortunately it worked out. However the individual in the article probably didn't make the mortgage choice based on a sound financial decision. I personally favor windfall RE transactions but would not recommend that approach to anyone. In fact I've got a pretty good dry spell going right now. A vulture has to be patient. In any event I certainly wouldn't risk anything that would compromise my lifestyle.

That's part of what separates this group from society as a whole.
Agreed... our assets were 10x our mortgage at the time that I refinanced... so it wasn't a huge bet and the last 6 years have been very good.
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Old 04-23-2018, 06:05 AM   #43
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and help her and the man cub get off to work/daycare.
I couldn't stop laughing when I read this! My sister still works on getting my 30 year old man-cub nephew off to work.
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Old 04-23-2018, 07:44 AM   #44
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Can't have much sympathy, even with his circumstances.

I have a relative who had to retire from 25+ years physically worn out plus getting a few things dropped on them (aircraft mechanic) with a pension closer to $35,000 than $85,000, with savings at the time of their retirement of maybe $50,000.

So they felt they had to take SS at age 62, but they've managed to make it 20+ years now on the above.
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Old 04-23-2018, 09:03 AM   #45
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I dunno... I've been retired for 6 years and we have a mortgage... in fact, I refinanced to get a lower rate (3.375%) just before I retired. Depending on the circumstances, retiring with a mortgage is quite prudent. Our investment return on money that we would have used to pay off the mortgage has been many multiples of what we paid in mortgage interest so we are way ahead.
Never been a fan of this logic
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Old 04-23-2018, 02:18 PM   #46
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I agree, but you’ll find many on this forum believe in keeping a mortgage so their money can stay invested in the markets. I prefer the safety of owning my properties outright.
I am not a fan of the mortgage per se, but I have had variable rate mortgages for about 11 years or so. Very small but it is at 2.75%, at least until 2021. So not paying it off till then at least.
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Old 04-23-2018, 02:24 PM   #47
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We live in a state with poor asset protection for homes, homes are very expensive and we know people who have been sued over issues like car accidents that can happen to anyone. In some locations equity stripping has its merits, besides the other potential benefits like keeping the money invested at a higher return.
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Old 04-23-2018, 02:30 PM   #48
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I have been retired for 3.5 years, I have mortgages on my home and three rentals. 6 years left on the house and one rental. 20 years and 25 years left on the others, less than 4% on all. Rentals are all cash flow positive. I sleep well.

As an aside, I am not quite 60 yo and not afraid of a shovel, wheel barrow and pickup truck full of mulch, rock, gravel, manure, or top soil for myself, friends,relatives or my rentals. There are 2 guys working across the street from me (at least 60 years old) and they have been shlugging it out for the last three days. I wouldn't do it unless it was for a lot of money.
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Old 04-23-2018, 03:27 PM   #49
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Well, if you're not smart enough live comfortably on an $85,000 pension, then maybe you deserve to be working.
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Old 04-23-2018, 03:33 PM   #50
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I wonder how much his salary when still working was. Was it more than $85K? I did not know GE pays factory workers that well, but then anything is possible.
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Old 04-23-2018, 03:41 PM   #51
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It can be a dangerous situation to have your job, pension, and equity tied up with your employer.

One of the first recommendations of our new adviser, about three two years prior to retirement, was to exercise my stock options. In his view not doing so would risk my early retirement. There was simply too much of potential net worth tied up.

We followed that advice. Sold at various prices from 55 to 41. Stock went down to 15 not long after.
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Old 04-23-2018, 04:10 PM   #52
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I wonder how much his salary when still working was. Was it more than $85K? I did not know GE pays factory workers that well, but then anything is possible.
I would think a tool and die man with that much seniority working in a GE engine plant would easily make $85K.
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Old 04-23-2018, 05:21 PM   #53
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Well, if you're not smart enough live comfortably on an $85,000 pension, then maybe you deserve to be working.
No need to be rude. We are among friends here.
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Old 04-23-2018, 05:41 PM   #54
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Isn't there a law since Enron that says employers cannot require you to buy or keep company stock?
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Old 04-23-2018, 05:50 PM   #55
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Isn't there a law since Enron that says employers cannot require you to buy or keep company stock?
Could be true. But that does not prevent them from "gifting" you stock as part of your compensation. Now, you need to do the responsible thing and diversify.

There is clearly a lot more to this story than the article explains. Maybe that part would be good click bait?
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Old 04-23-2018, 10:33 PM   #56
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No need to be rude. We are among friends here.
I think he was talking about the guy in the article. And I tend to agree with him.
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Old 04-23-2018, 11:56 PM   #57
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If GE is that generous with pensions, or that inept at negotiating labor wages, perhaps it was inevitable that they were going to fail. It certainly brings to question their other management decisions and negotiation skills.
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Old 04-24-2018, 04:24 AM   #58
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I think he was talking about the guy in the article. And I tend to agree with him.
Good point. Carry on, then.
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Old 04-24-2018, 05:19 AM   #59
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Isn't there a law since Enron that says employers cannot require you to buy or keep company stock?
Yes. And this was well publicized at the time. So as MC employee at the time I looked at my 401k and adjusted my "eggs". This was maybe 2003/4? And then after 2008 and Madoff, the whole "one basket=bad" thing was similarly drummed into popular consciousness. So despite both of these, the sample case kept on plugging away and never changed course?

I can't see the article due to paywall, but does it even touch on these points?

If not, it's very weak for WSJ.
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Old 04-24-2018, 05:27 AM   #60
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I think he was talking about the guy in the article. And I tend to agree with him.
I was. Thanks.

If they're gonna write an article about someone having difficulties living on their pension, then perhaps instead of writing about someone pulling in $85k, a better candidate might be someone who was getting by on $35k who just faced a cutback to $25k.
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