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02-03-2010, 02:27 PM
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#1
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Recycles dryer sheets
Join Date: Sep 2009
Posts: 353
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Retiring without a car?
Not to hijack the other car thread, I am curious if anyone has experience with NOT having a car in US. I realize that in many places in US a car is needed to get around to a store or any other places, but wonder if there are some places where it's not needed.
New York city would be one but it's expensive in other aspects. Outside of US, I know cities like Toronto have a good public transportation system. I just wonder if there are other places in the US where it makes sense to retire without a car and just order an occasional (or maybe even a regular) taxi / car service when needed instead...
Car-related expenses, maintainence, registration, insurance, other "headaches" just seem to add up to a lot...
Any thoughts?
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02-03-2010, 02:38 PM
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#2
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Moderator Emeritus
Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: New Orleans
Posts: 47,500
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One place where that might be nice to do, would be Honolulu. My mother's continuous care facility (and my apartment in a different building when I was younger) were both within a block of the corner of Punahou and Wilder, where there was a bus stop with extensive bus service. It was easy to hop on a bus and go to Waikiki, a very big mall at Ala Moana, or the university in just a few minutes. There was a grocery store just a short walk away on King St. In Honolulu, seniors can ride the bus, or as it is called there, "TheBus", for free.
I am 61 and I am trying to plan ahead for the day when I can no longer drive safely, probably somewhere between ages 70-80. When we move north to southern Missouri next year, I will be looking for a house near Frank's house (since we choose to live separately), but also the neighborhoods we are looking at are within walking distances of businesses and grocery stores. When I bought my house here, I had that in mind also and my present house is situated that way too. I will probably walk to more places long before I completely quit driving. When I no longer have a car, I will either hitch a ride with Frank or take a cab to go places.
__________________
Already we are boldly launched upon the deep; but soon we shall be lost in its unshored, harbourless immensities. - - H. Melville, 1851.
Happily retired since 2009, at age 61. Best years of my life by far!
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02-03-2010, 02:45 PM
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#3
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Give me a museum and I'll fill it. (Picasso) Give me a forum ...
Join Date: May 2005
Posts: 17,237
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I will say it makes a difference what you are willing to do to get around and where you live in the city...
Way way WAY back, there was a guy I worked with that did not own a car... here in Houston. He lived close to downtown in an apartment. The apartment had a shuttle to downtown, so he could get to work easily. He rode his bike to most of the other places he wanted to go. He bummed a ride with people, but usually paid for the gas, even more than needed. And the times he needed a ride, used a taxi or rented a car... amost forgot, he also used the local buses... they had a number of routes where he lived...
Said it saved him $1,000s... cost of car, insurance, gas, repairs etc.
So I would say you can do it in almost any city if you plan where to live...
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02-03-2010, 02:46 PM
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#4
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Give me a museum and I'll fill it. (Picasso) Give me a forum ...
Join Date: Oct 2005
Location: North Oregon Coast
Posts: 16,483
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If there was a good transportation system (and/or a very walkable neighborhood) and a place to rent a car within walking distance for the occasional road trip, it might be something to consider, especially if "peak oil" makes it more and more expensive to drive.
__________________
"Hey, for every ten dollars, that's another hour that I have to be in the work place. That's an hour of my life. And my life is a very finite thing. I have only 'x' number of hours left before I'm dead. So how do I want to use these hours of my life? Do I want to use them just spending it on more crap and more stuff, or do I want to start getting a handle on it and using my life more intelligently?" -- Joe Dominguez (1938 - 1997)
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02-03-2010, 02:50 PM
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#5
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Moderator Emeritus
Join Date: May 2007
Posts: 12,901
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I lived for several years in Raleigh, NC without a car. Certainly not the best place in the world to be without a car (the city is very spread out and public transportation minimal), but it was OK. I did a lot of walking and I lived near a bus stop so even with only one bus every hour or so, I was able to go around town pretty easily (and cheaply). You just have to choose the location of your home strategically, plan your day accordingly and you can't be in a hurry. And you can't be afraid of weird people either. The bus-riding population is a very interesting one... But not having a car saved me tons of money. I ended up getting a car later on though because, for social and professional reasons, I needed to be able to come and go later at night and it was difficult without a car. The buses stopped running quite early and walking around town in the middle of the night was just too dangerous.
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02-03-2010, 03:05 PM
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#6
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Thinks s/he gets paid by the post
Join Date: Jun 2005
Posts: 4,391
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San Francisco would work without a car. But like New York it is expensive.
They have a pretty good public transporation system there. Sometimes the hastle and expense of just parking a car in dense urban environments isn't worth it.
We had a poster on this forum (OldAgePensioner) who did live in San Francisco without a car. If you are really interested do a search for his old posts.
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02-03-2010, 03:11 PM
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#7
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Thinks s/he gets paid by the post
Join Date: Mar 2009
Location: Pittsburgh, PA suburbs
Posts: 1,796
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I would think one would have to live in a metro area with good public transportation or a high degree of walkability. When I was first married, we lived in NYC with no car for several years. We took the subway or walked. It is quite free-ing not to have a car not to mention much cheaper. I don't particularly like to drive in heavy traffic, but I think would always have a car when I retired so long as I could drive safely and also drive in non-peak hours. I would not want a car unless I had a parking space...I am too old to troll for parking on a street.
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02-03-2010, 03:14 PM
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#8
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Give me a museum and I'll fill it. (Picasso) Give me a forum ...
Join Date: Apr 2003
Location: Hooverville
Posts: 22,983
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I have a male friend here in my neighborhood who can't drive because of an eye condition from childhood. He says it is not really a problem for him, as we live where pretty much any services and his job are easy walks.
But it isn't easy socially, because once you leave the core area centered on downtown it is hard to get around on buses.
He can't seem to keep a girl either, though I believe he has a lot to recommend him. Good job, nice personality, doctorate. I can't help thinking that the women he approaches feel that they are just too old to be dating on the bus, and maybe they are not too keen to always drive.
I do know a number of younger women who don't drive, but the gender difference matters IMO.
Ha
__________________
"As a general rule, the more dangerous or inappropriate a conversation, the more interesting it is."-Scott Adams
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02-03-2010, 04:14 PM
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#9
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Moderator Emeritus
Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: New Orleans
Posts: 47,500
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Texas Proud
I will say it makes a difference what you are willing to do to get around and where you live in the city...
Way way WAY back, there was a guy I worked with that did not own a car... here in Houston. He lived close to downtown in an apartment. The apartment had a shuttle to downtown, so he could get to work easily. He rode his bike to most of the other places he wanted to go. He bummed a ride with people, but usually paid for the gas, even more than needed. And the times he needed a ride, used a taxi or rented a car... amost forgot, he also used the local buses... they had a number of routes where he lived...
Said it saved him $1,000s... cost of car, insurance, gas, repairs etc.
So I would say you can do it in almost any city if you plan where to live...
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If it can be done in Houston, then I would think it could be done in any major city. Most of Houston seems very "unwalkable" to me.
__________________
Already we are boldly launched upon the deep; but soon we shall be lost in its unshored, harbourless immensities. - - H. Melville, 1851.
Happily retired since 2009, at age 61. Best years of my life by far!
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02-03-2010, 04:26 PM
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#10
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Thinks s/he gets paid by the post
Join Date: Jul 2003
Location: Pasadena CA
Posts: 3,346
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Nobody walks in LA.
(Los Angeles)
I would love to live in a walkable place and just save driving for going out of town. Love driving the open spaces of the Southwest.
__________________
T.S. Eliot:
Old men ought to be explorers
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02-03-2010, 04:35 PM
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#11
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Thinks s/he gets paid by the post
Join Date: Jun 2005
Posts: 4,391
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Walk Score
Speaking of Walkability...
here is a website that gives you a walk score and some other infor for any address.
Get Your Walk Score - A Walkability Score For Any Address
here is their list of the 40 most walkable big cities (along with some of their walkable neighborhoods):
| ScoreMost Walkable Neighborhoods | 1San Francisco86Chinatown, Financial District, Downtown | 2New York83Tribeca, Little Italy, Soho | 3Boston79Back Bay-Beacon Hill, South End, Fenway-Kenmore | 4Chicago76Loop, Near North Side, Lincoln Park | 5Philadelphia74City Center East, City Center West, Riverfront | 6Seattle72Pioneer Square, Downtown, First Hill | 7Washington D.C.70Dupont Circle, Logan Circle, Downtown | 8Long Beach69Downtown, Belmont Shore, Belmont Heights | 9Los Angeles67Mid City West, Downtown, Hollywood | 10Portland66Pearl District, Old Town-Chinatown, Downtown | 11Denver66Lodo, Golden Triangle, Capitol Hill | 12Baltimore65Federal Hill, Fells Point, Inner Harbor | 13Milwaukee62Lower East Side, Northpoint, Murray Hill | 14Cleveland60Downtown, Ohio City-West Side, Detroit Shoreway | 15Louisville58Central Business District, Limerick, Phoenix Hill | 16San Diego56Core, Cortez Hill, Gaslamp Quarter | 17San Jose55Buena Vista, Burbank, Rose Garden | 18Las Vegas55Meadows Village, Downtown, Rancho Charleston | 19Fresno54Central, Fresno-High, Hoover | 20Sacramento54Richmond Grove, Downtown, Midtown | 21Albuquerque53Downtown, Broadway Central, Raynolds | 22Atlanta52Five Points, Poncey-Highland, Sweet Auburn | 23Detroit52Downtown, New Center, Midtown | 24Dallas51West End Historic District, Oak Lawn, m Streets | 25Tucson51Iron Horse, El Presidio, Ocotillo Oracle | 26Houston51Downtown, Montrose, River Oaks | 27Columbus50Weinland Park, Victorican Village, Downtown | 28Phoenix50Encanto, Central City, Camelback East | 29Austin49Downtown, University Of Texas, West University | 30Mesa48Southwest, West Central, Central | 31El Paso45Golden Hills, Houston Park, Manhattan Heights | 32San Antonio45Downtown, Five Points, Tobin Hill | 33Fort Worth45Downtown, Arlington Heights, Tcu-West Cliff | 34Kansas City44Old Westport, Country Club Plaza, Plaza Westport | 35Memphis43Midtown, Downtown, East Memphis-Colonial-Yorkshire | 36Oklahoma City43No Zillow neighborhood information available | 37Indianapolis42No Zillow neighborhood information available | 38Charlotte39Cherry, Fourth Ward, Downtown Charlotte | 39Nashville39East End, Edgehill, Bellmont Hillsboro | 40Jacksonville36Downtown Jacksonville, San Marco, Fairfax |
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02-03-2010, 05:08 PM
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#12
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Thinks s/he gets paid by the post
Join Date: Jul 2009
Posts: 1,934
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I'll be donating my truck to charity next week. At that point I'll be without a motorized vehicle. Part of the reason is that I've always despised the activity of driving, especially in congested areas like So Cal, where I live. (Ok, maybe it was cool when I was 16, but not since)
The other reason I'm dumping the truck is this: The True Cost of Driving . My truck costs $10k/yr to own and run. That's $250,000 of retirement savings, just to support this mechanical monstrosity that shortens my life by exposing me daily to the absolute worst side of human nature. If you're thinking I'm a luddite, you might be right.
Most adults in the US need a car, though, unless they're in a place like NYC or SF. This IMO is part of the unspoken program of wage-slavery that keeps people working to pay for things that only help them engage in more wage-slavery. You need a car to get to work, and you need to work to pay for your car. As that weird guy in my avatar said, "But lo! Man has become the tool of his tools!"
The public transportation around here is sparse, but my situation is unusual: I'm single, most of my trips are 5 miles or less, it doesn't get too cold here, I need exercise desperately, I can borrow/rent a car when absolutely necessary, and I'll be spending a good part of each year overseas. I've been trying out the car-less thing for a few months, and so far, so good.
Sorry if this has come off like a sermon. It's definitely something I feel strongly about. I'd encourage anyone to go car-less if at all possible, but I realize it isn't possible for most people in the US.
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02-03-2010, 06:50 PM
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#13
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Thinks s/he gets paid by the post
Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: Thousand Oaks
Posts: 1,111
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From my experiences:
Washington DC is a good place if you live near a metro station.
Seattle is good if you live downtown
Berkeley or San Francisco near metro station
Victoria B.C. is easy to get around because it's so small and concentrated
and they have a lot of canadian retirees so there's lots of senior services
if you find yourself needing that in the future.
I would guess many college town student ghettos may be good locations also
when i was at UCSB in the dark ages i got around fine w/ no car
there was a bus line that went from the student ghetto to downtown S.B.
that ran pretty regular with good hours of service down thru state street
(the main drag in santa barbara)
The same is true for vancouver (regarding bus lines and student ghettos)
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02-03-2010, 07:06 PM
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#14
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Moderator Emeritus
Join Date: Sep 2007
Posts: 17,774
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Chicago is great without a car if you can deal with the climate.
Beside good public transportation, you need a ton of available taxis on the street to make not having a car work.
__________________
“Would you like an adventure now, or would you like to have your tea first?” J.M. Barrie, Peter Pan
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02-03-2010, 07:33 PM
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#15
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Moderator Emeritus
Join Date: Jun 2007
Location: At The Cafe
Posts: 6,873
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Quote:
Originally Posted by FIREdreamer
... And you can't be afraid of weird people either. The bus-riding population is a very interesting one...
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Thank you!!
Quote:
Originally Posted by MasterBlaster
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I would debate the first area on the list, Chinatown, because during the day it is too packed with, um, pedestrians to be truly walkable; in the Financial District you run a high risk of being run over by, um, pedestrians, and Downtown, it depends on where downtown, could be where you find the really "interesting" people. It's a jungle out there. There are many many great walkable areas in S.F., but those are not on the top of my list.
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02-03-2010, 07:53 PM
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#16
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Moderator Emeritus
Join Date: May 2007
Posts: 12,901
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You are very welcome! I am sure the bus crowd in SF and other large cities is very different from the bus crowd I used to hang out with. Very, very few people used to take the bus in Raleigh. Most people taking the bus did so not by choice but rather out of necessity because they couldn't drive or afford a car. At the time I fitted right in with the "weirdos" (some say I still do ). I was an immigrant fresh off the boat who could barely speak English. I used to share my bench with alkies (who had lost their driver's license) and homeless people. I never felt unsafe though and conversations with my fellow riders definitely helped me to improve my English. But I can see how it would make some people very uncomfortable.
As for Chinatown in SF, it's the most claustrophobic place I have ever visited. I didn't walk there. The packed crowd carried me down the street...
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02-03-2010, 08:01 PM
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#17
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Give me a museum and I'll fill it. (Picasso) Give me a forum ...
Join Date: Jul 2003
Location: Kansas City
Posts: 7,968
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Seattle - U District in the 60's - not a problem except had to borrow a bike to ride to the Washington State Liquor Store on the weekend.
heh heh heh - here in the burbs no way. Nor would I want to - I grew up in the 'Happy Days' car culture. I miss drive in's although Sonic is not my favorite cusine. .
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02-03-2010, 08:40 PM
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#18
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Moderator Emeritus
Join Date: Jun 2007
Location: At The Cafe
Posts: 6,873
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Quote:
Originally Posted by FIREdreamer
...
As for Chinatown in SF, it's the most claustrophobic place I have ever visited. I didn't walk there. The packed crowd carried me down the street...
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Thanks for helping the cause, FireDreamer. I’ve never seen a fire ant but, by golly, we’ve got swarms of pesky pedestrians.
To be fair, Chinatown is wonderful at 8:00 a.m and of course one day a year, Lunar New Year, when all the stores are closed. I used to love walking through the alleys on the way to work. But the title of this thread is “retiring without a car.” I’m not out that early any more.
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02-03-2010, 09:45 PM
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#19
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Recycles dryer sheets
Join Date: May 2005
Posts: 193
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Onward
The other reason I'm dumping the truck is this: The True Cost of Driving . My truck costs $10k/yr to own and run. That's $250,000 of retirement savings, just to support this mechanical monstrosity that shortens my life by exposing me daily to the absolute worst side of human nature. If you're thinking I'm a luddite, you might be right.
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I guess this calculator inflates the cost. I think the cost is closer to 5000/yr for a ERed person and other things like bus etc. are also not free. I am assuming that someone drives an small car, keeping it for 10+ yrs.
And a car gives you some freedom..
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02-03-2010, 10:02 PM
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#20
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Thinks s/he gets paid by the post
Join Date: Jul 2009
Posts: 1,934
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My truck is huge and definitely more expensive to run than a small car. What really killed me was the service and repairs. Every year there seemed to be another $1,000 "surprise." I guess I should have bought a Toyota. No, wait....
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