Returning to full-time (government) work, mainly to get insurance

[SAinMinn]

I could use advice and/or encouragement from others in similar situations.

In about four weeks, I'm starting a government job after working as a consultant part time for two years. The main reason I'm doing this is to get good health insurance and to take some pressure off my wife.

I'm nearly 57 and she's nearly 59. I'm in good health. Her health is not as good.

She has a government job too, but I could tell the stress of carrying our insurance was affecting her health. Specifically, she was diagnosed with an ulcer. After I accepted the position a few weeks ago, she feels much better. Coincidence? Maybe, but I don't think so.

It also will be nice to have disability insurance, FMLA protection, etc. And I do get 13 paid holidays and three weeks of paid vacation. That being said, my take-home pay will be a bit less in the government job than with the consulting gig.

Financially, we really don't need me to do this. We could both quit tomorrow and we'd be fine. I have about $1.2M in tax-deferred accounts, $600K in Roth, and $600K in brokerage (with another $1M to come in a month or two once an estate is settled). My wife has around $250K in tax-deferred. Yeah ... I've been the saver, and also the high earner. We have no kids.

But my wife does not want to stop working, and I see why. If she stopped, I think her health would deteriorate instead of improve. And if she keeps working, we wouldn't qualify for Affordable Care Act subsidies, etc. I'd really have no choice but continue on her insurance.

I'm not really excited about returning to full-time work, particularly because I went the consulting route after a terrible experience of being terminated from a nonprofit where I last worked full-time (and then some) -- my failed attempt to "give back."

But I did learn my lesson. I leaned not to trust anybody. I put to rest any lingering thoughts of "making a difference." I like to think I'll be a lot smarter in the new full-time workplace. I just want to be fairly compensated for the work I do.

It is definitely liberating to know I could say "F U" and walk out the door anytime. Earlier today, I was dealing with the government's IT help desk, and I was on the receiving end of some snippy emails that would not have been tolerated in most private workplaces. Part of me wanted to say ... "Screw it, I'm just hanging it up now."

But I didn't. I do realize it's no small thing for a 57-year-old of my gender and demographic to be hired these days. But my skills do match the job description very well, so they will be lucky to have me. Also, I was told I'll be in the office two days a week and remote three days a week. That's a good mix. The office is less than 10 minutes from home.

Anyway ... thanks for reading my musings. I'd be interested in thoughts from those in similar situations. What keeps you going at work when you don't really need to be at work, except for the insurance? In my situation, I can start drawing my tax-deferred savings in 2.5 years. Does the promise of turning age 59.5 help?

 

[RunningBum]

The issue is your wife's health, not access to tax deferred money. Not sure why her carrying your health insurance was a health issue for her, unless she felt like she had to whatever crap they gave her since she didn't feel she could quit or risk getting fired. If that's the case, I don't know why you think her health would decline if she left her job.

Have you actually priced health insurance without a subsidy? Why is this not a choice?

I'm sure there's a lot more to her health than you can get across in an intro post, but that's the issue to solve, not money.

 

[Stormy Kromer]

You need to do some serious checking in with MNSURE.

I'm MN guy. It is not hard to qualify for some benefits with MNSURE. If you don't qualify (me) you can afford to pay your way on your own without financial hardship. I was self employed and used to it.

We have a lot in common and I think I can help you both. I have had my own health plan with MNSURE for many years and know my way around.

I'm the same age as you. I FIRED at 50 and felt I had to work and that I'd be appreciated. I was wrong twice. I tried working with a non profit once (nursing home) and was VERY putdown and resigned one day. The last day at work the boss called me in her office and scolded me that "these people are our company's client's...not our friends!" I took my uniform top off in the boss's office and walked out to my truck in 0 degree weather and drove home with no shirt on. Gotta love that minimum wage.

Appreciate yourself and your family. I went out and rescued a dog who appreciates me more in one day than my former job ever did in years.

 

[SAinMinn]

The issue is your wife's health, not access to tax deferred money. Not sure why her carrying your health insurance was a health issue for her, unless she felt like she had to whatever crap they gave her since she didn't feel she could quit or risk getting fired. If that's the case, I don't know why you think her health would decline if she left her job.

Have you actually priced health insurance without a subsidy? Why is this not a choice?

I'm sure there's a lot more to her health than you can get across in an intro post, but that's the issue to solve, not money.

She was and is feeling added stress from carrying the insurance. Specifically, she got an ulcer. Her job gives her a reason to get up every day -- that's a core reason why her health would decline. As you suggest, it's more complicated than one can say in a post.

Regarding health insurance without a subsidy, we're probably looking at 20K a year ... maybe more because she feels most comfortable with having very little deductible. Again, it's complicated.

What I need most are some perspectives on returning to full-time work at age 57.

 

[SAinMinn]

You need to do some serious checking in with MNSURE.

I'm MN guy. It is not hard to qualify for some benefits with MNSURE. If you don't qualify (me) you can afford to pay your way on your own without financial hardship. I was self employed and used to it.

We have a lot in common and I think I can help you both. I have had my own health plan with MNSURE for many years and know my way around.

I'm the same age as you. I FIRED at 50 and felt I had to work and that I'd be appreciated. I was wrong twice. I tried working with a non profit once (nursing home) and was VERY putdown and resigned one day. The last day at work the boss called me in her office and scolded me that "these people are our company's client's...not our friends!" I took my uniform top off in the boss's office and walked out to my truck in 0 degree weather and drove home with no shirt on. Gotta love that minimum wage.

Appreciate yourself and your family. I went out and rescued a dog who appreciates me more in one day than my former job ever did in years.

Great perspective and story, thanks. Yes, we are lucky to be in Minnesota. It's good to hear a real "F U" story.

It's not just about me, of course. My wife feels more comfortable with employer health insurance, so it's complicated. She doesn't have much of an appetite to talk about financial planning, either. I've begun to explain how we could tap Roth savings very soon and work things so we'd qualify for significant Affordable Care Act subsidies, etc. I'll keep working on it, but it's a process. For now ... I'm headed back to work for a spell.

 

[Stormy Kromer]

Let us know if you need someone to talk to or bounce ideas off of. Your first priority is you and your wife's well being and happiness.

 

[RunningBum]

What I need most are some perspectives on returning to full-time work at age 57.

Got it. While I didn't return to work after ER, it's somewhat similar to my last couple of years when I really didn't need to be at work anymore. Knowing that you can say FU and walk out makes it easier to do exactly what you did, ignore petty sniping and just get your job done. And you don't have to play politics or suck up to anyone. You're probably not angling for any kind of promotion so you don't have to put in extra hours to look like a superstar.

 

[pb4uski]

.... If she stopped, I think her health would deteriorate instead of improve. ...

Why? Assuming that you are financially set and she doesn't have to worry about money, why would her health deteriorate? she would have more free time to indulge in hobbies, take frequent walks, exercise if she wishes, recreate and travel.

 

[pb4uski]

...she feels most comfortable with having very little deductible. ...

While we are all on Medicare now, my best friend's wife was like that... she liked to brag that they had a platinum plan... and they paid through the nose in premiums for it.

I explained to them that in our case since we were both healthy that a bronze plan fit us better since the premiums were lower and our deductibles and co-pays were low because we didn't use health care services much... in fact in many years it was $0 because our annual physicals were covered. I could almost see her husband figuring what they would save with a bronze plan since they were both in good health.

Since you are in good health, a bronze plan may be best for you and perhaps a silver or gold plan for her given her health. Would that strategy shave down your health insurance premiums from the $20k?

 

[pb4uski]

Got it. While I didn't return to work after ER, it's somewhat similar to my last couple of years when I really didn't need to be at work anymore. Knowing that you can say FU and walk out makes it easier to do exactly what you did, ignore petty sniping and just get your job done. And you don't have to play politics or suck up to anyone. You're probably not angling for any kind of promotion so you don't have to put in extra hours to look like a superstar.

What was most satisfying for me being FI while I was still working is that I had the freedom to speak up and say what everyone else was thinking but that oftentimes the higherups didn't want to hear. You don't like the truth that I'm telling you and want to fire me? Well, make my day!

I was diplomatic about delivering the messaging that they didn't want to hear and surprisingly to me they sometimes ate it up... but sometimes not.

 

[FedRetired50]

Maybe I missed it, but are your jobs federal, state, county?

 

[HarveyS]

I wish you well. There is no scenario that I can envision going back to work. However, if I were in your shoes, I have a couple of thoughts.
1. You need to thicken your skin. A couple of 'snippy' emails from IT days ago are still bothering you? You might as well not start work then. There will be a whole lot more snippy office BS when you get there.
2. You cannot complain about your wage. You accepted it, now live with it. You wrote, "It also will be nice to have disability insurance, FMLA protection, etc. And I do get 13 paid holidays and three weeks of paid vacation. That being said, my take-home pay will be a bit less in the government job than with the consulting gig." OK, but what is your total compensation. in the list above you forgot to add health insurance, pension/401k, dental, vision, etc.. Add that all up and see how it compares to the consulting gig.

I also second the thought that you can buy health insurance without a job. If this job does not work out, that is a viable avenue to get the insurance your family wants. Even if you don't buy insurance, having the facts and knowing the cost may alleviate your spouse's stress regarding her perceived role as family insurance provider.

 

[Cayman]

You have $3.6M in a month or 2. You don't need to wait for 59.5 (if you need access to $ now you can 72t - SEPP). If this new job prospect has so many negatives for you, you might consider finding something else that appears fun, and/or interesting. Your posts relay dread about this new job. Yikes. You are FI. You do get to pick. Does the prospect of paying your own health insurance scare you? It seems to scare your wife. Perhaps a thorough review of your budget (with your wife) will help you both start a great retirement. You're in an admirable state financially! Kudos on that and best wishes for your future.

 

[Stormy Kromer]

A thought on the health insurance. If your wife likes the comfort of a low out of pocket plan you may want to consider one of MNSURE's HSA plans. You could take out a Silver plan and fund a HSA plan at the same time. The HSA contributions in any given year would likely cover any deductible or co-pays so it would feel like you don't have any out of pocket expense.

I know this because I've been doing it for years.

If you don't have out of pocket expenses the HSA grows for future use. Plus it is deductible like a traditional IRA. I have enough in my HSA to cover my out of pocket maximum for 7 years, enough to get me to medi care. Its a good feeling.

If it is a comfort issue for you and your wife just know that you have options.

 

[SAinMinn]

Got it. While I didn't return to work after ER, it's somewhat similar to my last couple of years when I really didn't need to be at work anymore. Knowing that you can say FU and walk out makes it easier to do exactly what you did, ignore petty sniping and just get your job done. And you don't have to play politics or suck up to anyone. You're probably not angling for any kind of promotion so you don't have to put in extra hours to look like a superstar.

Thanks, this helps a lot!

 

[SAinMinn]

Why? Assuming that you are financially set and she doesn't have to worry about money, why would her health deteriorate? she would have more free time to indulge in hobbies, take frequent walks, exercise if she wishes, recreate and travel.

As I wrote above, it's much more complicated than one can or should articulate in a forum such as this. Let's just say some are more motivated by work than are others. I know my wife very well. Hobbies go only so far. She's not keen on exercise -- her choice, and she has family longevity on her side (unlike me) so she'll probably outlive me even though I run daily, etc. Post-pandemic, she's not keen on travel either, and she misses the cats when she's gone. Each of us has our own reality, and that is mine, and hers, and ours. The scenario of her working and me not would not -- as she funds our health insurance -- is not a favorable one. Quite frankly, she can't see ever retiring completely. And that's her choice -- and understandable given some circumstances in her family too complicated to explain.

The best scenario is that after I reach 59.5 in 2.5 years, I can persuade her to take low-paying job in something she really likes, like working in a garden center. "But running the cash register is something I won't do," she said. Understood.

 

[SAinMinn]

While we are all on Medicare now, my best friend's wife was like that... she liked to brag that they had a platinum plan... and they paid through the nose in premiums for it.

I explained to them that in our case since we were both healthy that a bronze plan fit us better since the premiums were lower and our deductibles and co-pays were low because we didn't use health care services much... in fact in many years it was $0 because our annual physicals were covered. I could almost see her husband figuring what they would save with a bronze plan since they were both in good health.

Since you are in good health, a bronze plan may be best for you and perhaps a silver or gold plan for her given her health. Would that strategy shave down your health insurance premiums from the $20k?

Yes, a decent idea, thanks. Again ... my main question is how to approach going back to full-time work, because the deal is done and I start in a few weeks. And she's not quitting/retiring. She'll have her job and health insurance regardless. Her decision. And with her income, even if I'm not on her insurance, I'd get little to no subsidy for my health insurance if I got my own.

 

[SAinMinn]

What was most satisfying for me being FI while I was still working is that I had the freedom to speak up and say what everyone else was thinking but that oftentimes the higherups didn't want to hear. You don't like the truth that I'm telling you and want to fire me? Well, make my day!

I was diplomatic about delivering the messaging that they didn't want to hear and surprisingly to me they sometimes ate it up... but sometimes not.

This is what I need to hear. Thanks.

 

[SAinMinn]

Maybe I missed it, but are your jobs federal, state, county?

State, basically.

 

[SAinMinn]

I wish you well. There is no scenario that I can envision going back to work. However, if I were in your shoes, I have a couple of thoughts.
1. You need to thicken your skin. A couple of 'snippy' emails from IT days ago are still bothering you? You might as well not start work then. There will be a whole lot more snippy office BS when you get there.
2. You cannot complain about your wage. You accepted it, now live with it. You wrote, "It also will be nice to have disability insurance, FMLA protection, etc. And I do get 13 paid holidays and three weeks of paid vacation. That being said, my take-home pay will be a bit less in the government job than with the consulting gig." OK, but what is your total compensation. in the list above you forgot to add health insurance, pension/401k, dental, vision, etc.. Add that all up and see how it compares to the consulting gig.

I also second the thought that you can buy health insurance without a job. If this job does not work out, that is a viable avenue to get the insurance your family wants. Even if you don't buy insurance, having the facts and knowing the cost may alleviate your spouse's stress regarding her perceived role as family insurance provider.

Oh I totally let the email roll off me. I responded professionally, with salutations, etc. I've been through that crap before. Didn't bother me a bit. The question is whether I want to continue taking the high road in such situations. It gets exhausting after a while.

I'm not complaining about my wage, at all. If anything, I need to be careful about making too much money going forward, which is a good problem to have.

 

[Lorenzo]

I could use advice and/or encouragement from others in similar situations.

. . .

It also will be nice to have disability insurance, FMLA protection, etc. And I do get 13 paid holidays and three weeks of paid vacation. That being said, my take-home pay will be a bit less in the government job than with the consulting gig.

. . .

Anyway ... thanks for reading my musings. I'd be interested in thoughts from those in similar situations. What keeps you going at work when you don't really need to be at work, except for the insurance? . . . .

All my adult life I had a sort of disdain for "government jobs," including military service (hey, it wasn't a popular career in the post-Vietnam years), and now I run across many people whose government jobs left them with generous traditional pensions, something we who spent our careers in the private sector after 401ks came into vogue can only envy. I no longer underestimate the perks of working for the government.

As for going back (or continuing) to work when you don't need to financially, my thinking it that it beats doing sudoku puzzles for keeping the brain sharp!

Good luck, and enjoy the benefits.

 

[Fermion]

Personally, I think you are letting health insurance wag the dog so to speak.

Your wife wants to work to have a purpose. You don't. You have $3.6m, which yields $180,000/yr+ if you just put it in short term US treasuries. In addition to that, you probably will have another $40,000+/yr combined in SS even if you take it at age 62.

Work if you want to work, but if there is something else you would rather do, you seem to have the financial means to do it.

 

[SAinMinn]

You have $3.6M in a month or 2. You don't need to wait for 59.5 (if you need access to $ now you can 72t - SEPP). If this new job prospect has so many negatives for you, you might consider finding something else that appears fun, and/or interesting. Your posts relay dread about this new job. Yikes. You are FI. You do get to pick. Does the prospect of paying your own health insurance scare you? It seems to scare your wife. Perhaps a thorough review of your budget (with your wife) will help you both start a great retirement. You're in an admirable state financially! Kudos on that and best wishes for your future.

Thanks for your thoughts! With plenty of $ in brokerage, I wouldn't need to do the 72t path. I do have a couple regrets about rolling my last employer's 403(b) into my IRA because I would've qualified for the Rule of 55. But whatever.

I'm not dreading the substance of the new job. Just the opposite. It should be interesting work. It's the other stuff that I'm dreading -- politics, varying degrees of competence, etc. What I would benefit from are perspectives about staying in one's lane after a career that has included plenty of management of both people on procedures/products, mentoring, etc. -- none of which I want to do anymore. I just want to be fairly compensated for what I do. Hearing "F U" stories do help, quite honestly.

 

[MarieIG]

You could try it for a year or two, and then revisit the issue.

 

[SAinMinn]

All my adult life I had a sort of disdain for "government jobs," including military service (hey, it wasn't a popular career in the post-Vietnam years), and now I run across many people whose government jobs left them with generous traditional pensions, something we who spent our careers in the private sector after 401ks came into vogue can only envy. I no longer underestimate the perks of working for the government.

As for going back (or continuing) to work when you don't need to financially, my thinking it that it beats doing sudoku puzzles for keeping the brain sharp!

Good luck, and enjoy the benefits.

I greatly appreciated this post. Thank you for taking time! You make very good points across the board. Yes, I'll be eligible for a small pension if I stick it out for two years. (I have one year of prior government service, 20 years ago, which counts toward the pension.) I have two small pensions from my corporate life too ... back when some companies offered 401(k) matches, company stock, and pensions all at once. Those were the days. Counting my blessings regarding that, for sure.