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rolling over an IRA after RMDs have started?
Old 09-20-2018, 11:48 AM   #1
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rolling over an IRA after RMDs have started?

Trying to study up on RMDs... until now I thought I had 15 years before I'd have to worry about them. I've been googling, but the subtlety of "AFTER RMDs have started" is ignored.

Dear old (84) Dad (DOD) got suckered into an ING/Voya IRA annuity 9 years ago.
My initial math says he could do much better rolling it into brokered CDs (including surrender charges and paying back part of the "bonus" they gave him to open it).
The curve ball is its already paying out RMDs... I'm concerned that if he rolls it over, the new custodian will recalc RMDs based on his current age and dramatically increase his withdrawal rate.

To complicate matters, DOD didn't keep ANY paperwork on his annuity purchase contract or original RMD calculation info.... all I have to work off of is a few of the recent statements he did keep.

Anybody rolled an IRA and maintained your current RMD schedule?

Anybody know where I can read up on if/how he can maintain the original RMD schedule when rolling to a new custodian?
It might be specific to the custodian so I'll have to bark up that specific tree... but was wondering if there are underlying IRS rules on the topic.
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Old 09-20-2018, 11:54 AM   #2
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You may not correctly understand how RMDs are calculated. Since your RMD is dependent on the 12/31 value of your IRA the previous year, there is no schedule. It must be calculated every year.

Call the financial house where you plan to move the money and ask them how they will handle doing the calculations for you post move. If you've already done the RMD for 2018 and move the money now, the new financial house will know the year end 2018 value to calculate the 2019 RMD.
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Old 09-20-2018, 11:54 AM   #3
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The custodians provide RMD numbers as a courtesy. They have no legal standing and hence can be ignored when you are calculating Dad's RMD. You still have your question, I understand, but once you get the answer there is no reason to worry about whatever number some custodian might come up with and, of course, the custodian can't force someone to take a distribution.
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Old 09-20-2018, 11:56 AM   #4
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Isnít the RMD calculated on an age based percentage on the value of the retirement funds on Dec 31 of the prior year? Why would a rollover change that?
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Old 09-20-2018, 12:02 PM   #5
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RMD recalc at start of every year:
OK.... I'll start homeworking there. I had (mis)understood that they used the schedule table when RMDs start... didn't realize that its reset every year anyway.
That does answer the unasked question about RMDs and the effect of portfolio gains/losses.
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Old 09-20-2018, 12:02 PM   #6
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If your Dad's Annuity is contained within an IRA, there is no RMD owed. The IRS treats the Annuity disbursements as a substitute for the RMD regardless of the amount of the disbursement.
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Old 09-20-2018, 12:08 PM   #7
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Generally, the company you are moving an IRA from will complete the RMD for the year if it has not been done. The receiving company will start the RMD in the next calendar year. You just need to tell the new company the method of payment (monthly, quarterly etc.) and when you want the payment to start.
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Old 09-20-2018, 12:20 PM   #8
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get some professional advice as you need to know what you have. Some annuities in IRAs are not counted toward RMS (QLACs), some other that kick out payments are able to have the payments count as their RMD (not sure of specifics).

Your base question of rolling over after starting RMDs is not that complicated in normal investments in the TIRAs. But you really want to know how to deal with and change an annuity that is kicking out payments used for RMDs that may not be related to RMD calculation tables.

I'm 13 years from RMD and at this point have not thought about annuities in TIRAs for myself.
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Old 09-20-2018, 12:54 PM   #9
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ask your question at in the retirement forum. Look for an answer by Alan S.

The annuity complicates the situation since as mentioned by another previously, often the annuity may not require RMDs since the distributions are considered to serve that function for the annuity.
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