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Old 11-19-2019, 12:39 PM   #21
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To only reason to file a form 2210 is if your taxable earnings aren't equal throughout the year and so your withholding isn't level throughout the year. The IRS expects you will pay your taxes as you earn income. The 2210 gets you through the gyrations to prove to the IRS that it was being paid as you earned the income.

Don't do it if you don't have to. Form 2210 are a lot of work IMO. If you have a steady stream of income (i.e., social security, pensions, annuities, or a timed withdrawal system) where taxes are withheld, or you set up EFTPS payments, the IRS is happy.
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Old 11-19-2019, 01:13 PM   #22
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This is helpful. I’ll be interested to know how it works out for you. My preference would be once a year 4th quarter conversion too. Just wasn’t sure if the IRS expects more “prepayment” than that throughout the year. I’ll definitely used the E portal to avoid paperwork. Thanks!
I send in an estimate in the quarter that I do the rollover. This is what is sounds like that want. I am afraid I would get hit with a penalty if I just sent in an estimate in the 4th Quarter.

In 2020 my rollover amounts will be less so I will probably have the tax payment taken out of my pension check smoothed over the year.
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Old 11-20-2019, 09:00 AM   #23
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I was thinking I’d actually do the conversion in the 4th quarter and send the estimated tax payment at the same time, so that my payment and the spike in income occur together, which seems to be the overriding goal of these IRS rules.
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Old 11-20-2019, 09:09 AM   #24
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I was thinking I’d actually do the conversion in the 4th quarter and send the estimated tax payment at the same time, so that my payment and the spike in income occur together, which seems to be the overriding goal of these IRS rules.
have you walked thru Form 2210 ?

there is a significant difference if you pay in December as an estimate or have it withheld at the same time.

but the penalty may not be all that bad.
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Old 11-20-2019, 09:35 AM   #25
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have you walked thru Form 2210 ?



there is a significant difference if you pay in December as an estimate or have it withheld at the same time.



but the penalty may not be all that bad.


No, I haven’t but I will. I’d rather not pay a penalty. I’ve heard different things from different people regarding the timing of the conversion vs. the timing of estimated tax payments on that conversion. My impression is that the IRS wants income and related tax payments to be reasonably close in time. I just assumed that if my conversion occurs in Q4 (let’s say October) and I make the tax payment at the same time, I’m good. To be on the safe side, though, I’m starting to believe I’d be better off making quarterly conversions and payments.

Just FYI my current thinking is to convert $50,000 per year. I could pay the estimated taxes quarterly and just do the conversion whenever I’m ready. Form 1040ES says the last estimated tax payment isn’t due until January 15 of the following year, so that would seem to work. Is this approach flawed? Does the IRS care when I convert if they’re getting 4 equal tax payments during the year?
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Old 11-20-2019, 10:34 AM   #26
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4 equal payment meeting the IRS dates for "quarterly" should work. That is what I try to do.
I try to use the required estimated taxes calculated for the past year's taxes if nothing had changed much. This is more than I paid last year, but I don't expect this year to be any different. I'm converting to higher brackets.
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Old 11-20-2019, 11:07 AM   #27
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Another fine website to ask tax questions exists at fairmark.com. Click on Tax Help, then Forum. You will need to register, but you will also get clear definitions of what the IRS expects.
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Old 11-20-2019, 01:01 PM   #28
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there is a significant difference if you pay in December as an estimate or have it withheld at the same time.

So this is my first year without W2 income, and first year of doing conversions. If I have an estimated tax payment and a withholding both does that change the IRS response ?
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Old 11-20-2019, 02:19 PM   #29
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So this is my first year without W2 income, and first year of doing conversions. If I have an estimated tax payment and a withholding both does that change the IRS response ?
Probably not ........if the withholding alone doesn't get you to safe harbor, they will check to see if estimated payments were timely (paid in equal quarterly payments or faster) and if not, assume you were late unless you provide F2210 Sch AI showing that payments were timely with income.
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Old 11-20-2019, 02:54 PM   #30
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Guess I’ll work through the 2210 then. Thanks
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