S.S. as annuity - interesting Greaney article

[CuppaJoe]

Come to think of it, wouldn't it be our patriotic duty to do this? To infuse money into the struggling SS fund? Seems like if only a small percentage of baby boomers do it, it could still be a large number. Maybe they could encourage them with signing bonuses? I'm going to get very political at retirement. Are there holes in that logic?

[OAG]

Current status of "withdrawal of application". Started process to withdraw in September 2007. Received notification that (1) DW is to revert to "her record" for benefits starting in July 2008 and (2) Received notification/bill from MEDICARE to pay 4 months of premiums (1/8-10/31/2008. Spoke to SS and they said letter was coming telling me how much to repay, where the send/take the repayment money, along with the amount (estimated to be about $85K). In the meantime my status is "suspended" and "approval" only contingent on repayment (which will occur whenever the send me the "amount letter". So I guess this process does work and I thought I would provide an update for those interested.

[Robert8]

Hi OAG,

I am having trouble following your post. For example , you wrote:

Quote:

Received notification/bill from MEDICARE to pay 4 months of premiums (1/8-10/31/2008.

That looks like 10 months, not 4 months of premiums to me.

Also, for how many months will you not have received SS payments? How does SS make up for the months you didn't receive SS payments?

Thanks,
Robert K

[OAG]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Robert8 Hi OAG, I am having trouble following your post. For example , you wrote: That looks like 10 months, not 4 months of premiums to me. Also, for how many months will you not have received SS payments? How does SS make up for the months you didn't receive SS payments? Thanks, Robert K

1 Aug to 31 Oct = 4 months.

0 and they don't (except by increasing the amount of benefits when one actually resumes receiving them). This is a withdrawal of application with repayment of benefits paid in the past.

It may become clearer if you read the link provided by OP.

[Robert8]

Hi again OAG,
So will you be receiving SS benefits from August thru October of this year or not? If not, does SS pay those benefits for August thru October back later, or does SS treat the period of Aug. thru Oct. as a suspension of benefits, or do you simply lose SS benefits for the months of Aug. thru Oct.?

Thanks again,
Robert K

PS - from Aug 1-Oct 31 is 3 months, not 4 months

Your original post said 1/8-10/31/08 which is roughly 10 months. Apparently you meant to write 8/1-10/31/08, but again that is 3 months, not 4 months. Perhaps it goes 7/1-10/31/08, which would be 4 months.

[FinanceDude]

Quote:

Originally Posted by kevink Where can a 70-year-old buy the least expensive life annuity? Interesting article - any thoughts? How long can this loophole last? K.

Interesting......I've been calling SS an annuity for years..........

[CitricAcid]

Quote:

Originally Posted by FinanceDude Interesting......I've been calling SS an annuity for years..........

Is that why you hate SS or why you hate annuities?

[FinanceDude]

Quote:

Originally Posted by CitricAcid Is that why you hate SS or why you hate annuities?

Neither.......I have just maintained that pensions and Social Security ARE annuities, when folks on here get uppity and say: "I don't own any annuities and I never will"!!!

[OAG]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Robert8 Hi again OAG, So will you be receiving SS benefits from August thru October of this year or not? If not, does SS pay those benefits for August thru October back later, or does SS treat the period of Aug. thru Oct. as a suspension of benefits, or do you simply lose SS benefits for the months of Aug. thru Oct.? Thanks again, Robert K PS - from Aug 1-Oct 31 is 3 months, not 4 months Your original post said 1/8-10/31/08 which is roughly 10 months. Apparently you meant to write 8/1-10/31/08, but again that is 3 months, not 4 months. Perhaps it goes 7/1-10/31/08, which would be 4 months.

Gee, it was early, I guess, I looked at the bill again and it said Aug 1 to Oct 31 of 2008 but the actual amount was for a 4 month period ($96.40 X 4 = $385.60) and after giving it some more thought I guess they really mean the months of Aug, Sep, Oct and Nov of 2008. Reasonable since my LAST Medicare deduction was from the Social Security benefit deposit for which was paid in late June 2008. No I will not receive any further SS payments (account has been "suspended") UNLESS I fail to respond to the repayment letter (yet to get here but I have been assured it has been sent) with a valid check/payment; which I intend to do.

Nothing unique about the Medicare billing as that is what almost everyone will do at age 65 if they are not receiving SS benefits (from which they deduct the payment amount and send it to MC).

[Marquette]

Quote:

Originally Posted by FinanceDude Neither.......I have just maintained that pensions and Social Security ARE annuities, when folks on here get uppity and say: "I don't own any annuities and I never will"!!!

I still maintain that position... but I am aware that I'm buying someone else an annuity right now.

But, how can something be both an annuity and pay as you go?

The Future of Social Security

Quote:

Current Social Security system is unsustainable in the long run Many people think that the Social Security taxes they pay are held in interest-bearing accounts earmarked for their own future retirement needs. The fact is that Social Security is a pay-as-you-go retirement system—the Social Security taxes paid by today’s workers and their employers are used to pay the benefits for today’s retirees and other beneficiaries.

Obviously, it's not a pure pay-as-you-go system, but it seems quite different from an annuity.

[Robert8]

Hi again OAG,

Thanks for your reply. See if I have this about right. If a person withdraws and repays the process might take 12 months. During the first 8 months nothing changes. You continue to receive your old SS benefits and Medicare premiums are deducted from your SS benefits. Then you receive the bill from SS for repaying benefits, which includes those 8 months and SS benefits are suspended for about 4 months until the higher benefits kick in. During those 4 months you are billed for your Medicare premiums, since there are no monthly SS benefits to deduct the Medicare premiums from. Have I got this about right?

Thanks again,
Robert K

[OAG]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Robert8 Hi again OAG, Thanks for your reply. See if I have this about right. If a person withdraws and repays the process might take 12 months. During the first 8 months nothing changes. You continue to receive your old SS benefits and Medicare premiums are deducted from your SS benefits. Then you receive the bill from SS for repaying benefits, which includes those 8 months and SS benefits are suspended for about 4 months until the higher benefits kick in. During those 4 months you are billed for your Medicare premiums, since there are no monthly SS benefits to deduct the Medicare premiums from. Have I got this about right? Thanks again, Robert K

No SS does not resume at the end of 4 months. It does not resume until a NEW SS APPLICATION is made at the choosing of the the applicant (BTW I will be 68 in October 2008. I can apply immediately after paying it back and get the NEW HIGHER RATE or wait til later (no benefit to go beyond 70). Personally, I plan to wait until age 70 to resume (new application) benefits. Medicare payments will be on going regardless. Much cheaper than buying an regular annuity.

[Robert8]

Thanks OAG,
That clears it up for me.

Robert K

[CitricAcid]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Marquette I still maintain that position... but I am aware that I'm buying someone else an annuity right now. But, how can something be both an annuity and pay as you go? The Future of Social Security Obviously, it's not a pure pay-as-you-go system, but it seems quite different from an annuity.

Sounds a bit like a pyramid/Ponzi scheme, money is fed from the people buying into it into those alraedy in it and they hope the chain continues as more people put into it until it explodes. Obviously it isn't the same exact scenario since Congress has the power to levy taxes and regulate closer, but the similarities in the structure is still there

[FinanceDude]

Quote:

Originally Posted by CitricAcid Sounds a bit like a pyramid/Ponzi scheme, money is fed from the people buying into it into those alraedy in it and they hope the chain continues as more people put into it until it explodes.

Sounds like a UAW pension contract............