|
|
08-18-2020, 06:22 PM
|
#61
|
Give me a museum and I'll fill it. (Picasso) Give me a forum ...
Join Date: Jul 2008
Posts: 35,712
|
I paid 14% for an FHA mortgage in April 1980. I believe there was another 1/2% for the mortgage insurance on top of that.
The rate moved up even further after that, and I patted myself on the back for getting in before it got really bad. Ended up refinancing twice when the rate dropped, prior to selling and moving to another home in 1987. I cannot remember what the rate was on the newer home, and am too lazy to go through my file for the mortgage paper. That high mortage rate in 1980 is however unforgettable.
__________________
"Old age is the most unexpected of all things that happen to a man" -- Leon Trotsky (1879-1940)
"Those Who Can Make You Believe Absurdities Can Make You Commit Atrocities" - Voltaire (1694-1778)
|
|
|
|
Join the #1 Early Retirement and Financial Independence Forum Today - It's Totally Free!
Are you planning to be financially independent as early as possible so you can live life on your own terms? Discuss successful investing strategies, asset allocation models, tax strategies and other related topics in our online forum community. Our members range from young folks just starting their journey to financial independence, military retirees and even multimillionaires. No matter where you fit in you'll find that Early-Retirement.org is a great community to join. Best of all it's totally FREE!
You are currently viewing our boards as a guest so you have limited access to our community. Please take the time to register and you will gain a lot of great new features including; the ability to participate in discussions, network with our members, see fewer ads, upload photographs, create a retirement blog, send private messages and so much, much more!
|
08-18-2020, 06:37 PM
|
#62
|
Administrator
Join Date: Apr 2006
Posts: 23,041
|
My first car loan, in 1981, was 21% APR.
__________________
Living an analog life in the Digital Age.
|
|
|
08-18-2020, 06:44 PM
|
#63
|
Thinks s/he gets paid by the post
Join Date: Aug 2014
Location: Chicago West Burbs
Posts: 3,019
|
In 1973-6 we rented an upstairs apartment. The next door neighbor bragged that he had a 5.5% mortgage and said they would never get that low again. He was right for about 40+ years which in mortgages, is basically forever. IIRC, I got a mortgage for ~12.75% in 1983 plus the mortgage insurance. Those were tough times. But it was not uncommon to get double digit raises. I paid 15.5% on a car loan in that period.
|
|
|
08-18-2020, 07:30 PM
|
#64
|
Give me a museum and I'll fill it. (Picasso) Give me a forum ...
Join Date: Aug 2004
Location: Laurel, MD
Posts: 8,327
|
I bought 1st home in ‘83. The going rate was -12% and everyone said rates would never drop below 10. Many people were doing seller financing. I got a state mortgage bond subsidized loan for 9.375 + .375 for insurance. I think auto loans were ~8% and I recall 10% MM rates.
__________________
...with no reasonable expectation for ER, I'm just here auditing the AP class.Retired 8/1/15.
|
|
|
08-18-2020, 07:35 PM
|
#65
|
Full time employment: Posting here.
Join Date: Jun 2016
Posts: 889
|
No credibility. Close the thread
|
|
|
08-18-2020, 07:40 PM
|
#66
|
Give me a museum and I'll fill it. (Picasso) Give me a forum ...
Join Date: Jul 2008
Posts: 35,712
|
Quote:
Originally Posted by Gumby
My first car loan, in 1981, was 21% APR.
|
Consumer loan interest such as car loan and credit card interest was even tax deductible back then. It was taken away in 1981 or 1982, as I recall.
PS. My memory is shot. It was later than what I wrote. The phasing out of consumer loan interest deduction did not start until 1986.
__________________
"Old age is the most unexpected of all things that happen to a man" -- Leon Trotsky (1879-1940)
"Those Who Can Make You Believe Absurdities Can Make You Commit Atrocities" - Voltaire (1694-1778)
|
|
|
08-18-2020, 07:53 PM
|
#67
|
Thinks s/he gets paid by the post
Join Date: Dec 2014
Location: St. Charles
Posts: 3,919
|
I guess I started a trip down memory lane
My only point was, no one knows with any accuracy what will happen to the economy, the market, interest rates, etc. in the long term.
Even in the short term, I recall some very well respected financial pundits predicting a financial Armageddon in November 2016.
So, back on topic, I don't give much credence to people like the "Samurai" with their normal predictions. So, when they spout nonsense I don't even notice unless I see it referenced at ER.org.
And then I just laugh it off.
__________________
If your not living on the edge, you're taking up too much space.
Never slow down, never grow old!
|
|
|
08-18-2020, 09:51 PM
|
#68
|
Give me a museum and I'll fill it. (Picasso) Give me a forum ...
Join Date: Aug 2004
Location: Laurel, MD
Posts: 8,327
|
Quote:
Originally Posted by BeachOrCity
No credibility. Close the thread
|
You post this right after my comments?
I guess I should not take it personally?
__________________
...with no reasonable expectation for ER, I'm just here auditing the AP class.Retired 8/1/15.
|
|
|
08-18-2020, 10:05 PM
|
#69
|
Give me a museum and I'll fill it. (Picasso) Give me a forum ...
Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: Boise
Posts: 7,882
|
Quote:
Originally Posted by jazz4cash
You post this right after my comments?
I guess I should not take it personally?
|
Pretty sure they were referring to Financial Samurai, not you.
(Maybe you're teasing or joking. If so, sorry, but I can't tell very well.)
__________________
"At times the world can seem an unfriendly and sinister place, but believe us when we say there is much more good in it than bad. All you have to do is look hard enough, and what might seem to be a series of unfortunate events, may in fact be the first steps of a journey." Violet Baudelaire.
|
|
|
08-18-2020, 10:46 PM
|
#70
|
Thinks s/he gets paid by the post
Join Date: Jan 2020
Location: Milwaukee
Posts: 4,053
|
Quote:
Originally Posted by HI Bill
So, imagine if interest rates bumped back up to 17%, and we could no longer service the national debt. The US would default on the debt, or a portion of it, and the US currency value would plummet (inflation would skyrocket).
|
Perhaps I am mistaken, but you seem to imply that the existing US debt would be subject to these increased interest rates. Remember that inflation is kind to debtors. I would argue that the value of outstanding debt would plummet, and inflation would make paying these debts off easier. (Of course, there would be ****-tons of other problems.) Or am I misinterpreting your post?
|
|
|
08-19-2020, 04:48 AM
|
#71
|
Full time employment: Posting here.
Join Date: Jun 2016
Posts: 889
|
Quote:
Originally Posted by jazz4cash
You post this right after my comments?
I guess I should not take it personally?
|
I meant FS has no credibility. It’s not even worth discussing.
|
|
|
08-19-2020, 06:36 AM
|
#72
|
Moderator
Join Date: Nov 2015
Posts: 13,927
|
Quote:
Originally Posted by BeachOrCity
I meant FS has no credibility. It’s not even worth discussing.
|
Exactly. And yet, every time he posts something outrageous, we get another thread, and feed him more clicks, so I guess he's not completely stupid.
His advice is not even worth the time spent reading it.
|
|
|
08-19-2020, 06:39 AM
|
#73
|
Recycles dryer sheets
Join Date: Nov 2012
Location: Navarre
Posts: 141
|
Quote:
Originally Posted by Out-to-Lunch
Perhaps I am mistaken, but you seem to imply that the existing US debt would be subject to these increased interest rates. Remember that inflation is kind to debtors. I would argue that the value of outstanding debt would plummet, and inflation would make paying these debts off easier. (Of course, there would be ****-tons of other problems.) Or am I misinterpreting your post?
|
Unless something changes with budgets or taxes the U.S. has no money to pay off debt, they would have to roll the debt over into new debt at the current interest rate, thereby increasing the debt service costs. Are you suggesting inflation would increase tax revenues to offset the higher debt service costs? This sounds like a terrible experience either way for a retiree with no remaining human capital.
|
|
|
08-19-2020, 07:49 AM
|
#74
|
Thinks s/he gets paid by the post
Join Date: Jan 2010
Location: 5-sided building
Posts: 1,184
|
Quote:
Originally Posted by BreathFree
Unless something changes with budgets or taxes the U.S. has no money to pay off debt, they would have to roll the debt over into new debt at the current interest rate, thereby increasing the debt service costs.
|
Federal Government doesn't need to have money to pay off the debt. They can literally make their own money. They could then take some of that money to pay to the lender, and in theory, the result is inflation.
For the US Federal budget, taxes and other revenues have ZERO connection to expenditures, including debt service.
|
|
|
08-19-2020, 08:01 AM
|
#75
|
Recycles dryer sheets
Join Date: Nov 2012
Location: Navarre
Posts: 141
|
Quote:
Originally Posted by HawkeyeNFO
Federal Government doesn't need to have money to pay off the debt. They can literally make their own money. In theory, the result is inflation.
For the US Federal budget, taxes and other revenues have ZERO connection to expenditures, including debt service.
|
Of course they could just print the money, or they could confiscate from the citizenry or just default and refuse to pay. How about not taking any of those risks and be fiscally responsible.
|
|
|
08-19-2020, 08:09 AM
|
#76
|
Thinks s/he gets paid by the post
Join Date: Jan 2010
Location: 5-sided building
Posts: 1,184
|
Quote:
Originally Posted by BreathFree
How about not taking any of those risks and be fiscally responsible.
|
Majority of voters don't want the candidate who does that. Voters want benefits.
|
|
|
08-19-2020, 12:49 PM
|
#77
|
Recycles dryer sheets
Join Date: Mar 2014
Location: .
Posts: 382
|
Quote:
Exactly. And yet, every time he posts something outrageous, we get another thread, and feed him more clicks, so I guess he's not completely stupid.
His advice is not even worth the time spent reading it.
|
I think we may actually be agreeing...
I posted and started this thread, knowing full well the FS article was bunk. (Thus all the emojis and my sarcastic tone.)
I figure that the thread (a) provides a certain amount of entertainment value, and (b) enables a discussion of people's recent thoughts on the SWR, which thoughts are revealed while we all shoot at FS.
No one has to read the thread. But yet almost everyone does, and people post both substantively good comments -- as well as laments that this is all a waste of time.
To many people, shooting down an "idiot's" argument is not a waste of time. The guffawing alone at his shamelessness merits the attention of those who elect to read the thread. (I put "idiot" in quotes because I honestly don't think FS really believes his own stuff -- but if he does, then God bless him: he needs a bit of sympathy for such a handicap.)
And yes, we are driving revenue to FS -- and to ER.org for that matter, since our discussion attracts clicks and many ER.org readers see advertisements.
All in good fun.
__________________
“We always may be what we might have been.” -- Adelaide Anne Procter
|
|
|
08-21-2020, 06:55 PM
|
#78
|
Confused about dryer sheets
Join Date: Apr 2017
Posts: 4
|
Simple question
Let’s say I’m 60% invested in VOO, 30% in BND, and I’ve got 10% in cash.
Why do I care about bond YIELD alone? Wouldn’t I instead focus on total bond RETURN over a longer period of time?
This is one of many issues that tripped me up on Sam’s article.
|
|
|
08-21-2020, 07:14 PM
|
#79
|
Give me a museum and I'll fill it. (Picasso) Give me a forum ...
Join Date: Jul 2008
Location: Leeward Oahu
Posts: 17,930
|
Quote:
Originally Posted by Out-to-Lunch
Perhaps I am mistaken, but you seem to imply that the existing US debt would be subject to these increased interest rates. Remember that inflation is kind to debtors. I would argue that the value of outstanding debt would plummet, and inflation would make paying these debts off easier. (Of course, there would be ****-tons of other problems.) Or am I misinterpreting your post?
|
I think you are correct about existing debt (yours, mine or the US Gummint debt.) BUT, the US Gummint never actually pays off its debt! It just borrows MORE (in effect, rolling over its debt). And, of course, the gummint borrows EVEN more than it needs to roll over its current debt. It constantly creates even MORE debt. It is THESE NEW debts which will break the bank (eventually).
I have just told you WAY more than I KNOW or UNDERSTAND about bonds, debt, gummint, etc. etc., so YMMV.
__________________
Ko'olau's Law -
Anything which can be used can be misused. Anything which can be misused will be.
|
|
|
08-21-2020, 07:27 PM
|
#80
|
Thinks s/he gets paid by the post
Join Date: Mar 2012
Posts: 3,931
|
Quote:
Originally Posted by RapmasterD
Let’s say I’m 60% invested in VOO, 30% in BND, and I’ve got 10% in cash.
Why do I care about bond YIELD alone? Wouldn’t I instead focus on total bond RETURN over a longer period of time?
This is one of many issues that tripped me up on Sam’s article.
|
Though Sam supposedly has a financial background and worked in the industry, he is obviously not the sharpest knife in the drawer.
His entire thesis is based on his personal claim that the 4% came about as a result of it being 80% of the 10-year treasury rate of 5% at the time. He then extrapolates that thesis (which had no particular basis to begin with) that this should mean that whatever the 10-year treasury rate is at the time, 80% of that number is the safe withdrawal rate. Who said that the 4% came about because it was 80% of the 10-year then-current 10-year treasury rate in the first place? I am certain that much more went into it - that there was some consideration for long-term interest rates and market returns flowing to an average investors portfolio/retirement fund.
Sam's analysis and claims in the article are quite shallow, and the comments made that very clear.
|
|
|
|
|
Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
|
|
Posting Rules
|
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts
HTML code is Off
|
|
|
|
» Recent Threads
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
» Quick Links
|
|
|