Score One for Suze Orman

[cute fuzzy bunny]

Why do you guys always have to turn everything into a discussion about sex?

Its disgusting. Revolting.

 

[unclemick]

Why do you guys always have to turn everything into a discussion about sex?

Its disgusting. Revolting.

I wonder if the beer can lady gives financial advice? - although Foster's was never high on my list - sort of like load funds with no other option available.

- maybe the Lady's have trouble picturing Dave as a male stripper.

heh heh heh - actually this crop of advisors weren't around when I got the frugal bug - or I didn't notice back then (1960's).

 

[Sarah in SC]

Alright boys--must be desperate for entertainment if you are imagining Suze Orman naked, but whatever.

We took some young folks to see Dave Ramsey when he came to town a few weeks ago, and as others have said, his advice is not for the folks on this board, but it is where some of us started. It was a great program, inspiring and upbeat, and I saw a lot of enthused faces in the (huge) crowd.
I have no problem with folks getting the "be smart with money" info from Dave or from Suze. Much of our path to FIRE is paved with advice from Dave--and I did get a huge amount of satisfaction from yelling we're debt free on his radio program when we paid off the house!
Suze is nerve-wracking to listen to, no dispute with that!

 

[Shawn]

I've watched parts of Suze Orman's show a few times although probably not within the last year. I admit that it can be self-satisfying to hear people call in with self-induced financial problems that I do not have. It gives me an opportunity to feel smug about my own LBYM lifestyle.

Orman's advice on personal financial management (e.g., get out of credit card debt) is undoubtedly valuable to certain people. If it can help people stabilize their own financial situation, then this is good. Orman also appears to be adept at helping people realize what they can and cannot afford ("Suze, I net $1500/month at my job. Can I afford a $2500/month mortgage payment?").

That said, Orman's investment advice is abysmal. For example, she doesn't emphasize a well-diversified portfolio but instead encourages specific asset classes (e.g., she told people not to buy bonds when in fact bonds turned out to be good investments). She insists (no exceptions) that it's a bad idea not to pay off a mortgage if one has the means to do so. This sort of dogmatism is bad advice. I can easily beat my 3% tax-adjusted mortgage rate with relatively safe investments.

Personally, I dislike Orman because she is extremely sexist. For example, she constantly refers to women callers as "girlfriend." A man in her position could not get away with this, and he would be called on it. In fact, he likely would no longer have a job. Admittedly, I've heard her call men "boyfriend." If Orman called me "boyfriend," I would "pop her in the nose." If you're offended at my comment, you should be. But the "pop in the nose" comment is exactly what she told a woman caller to do to her boyfriend/husband. Even though Orman was joking, it was totally inappropriate. But she knows that she can get away with such comments because as a woman she can joke about domestic violence as long as the victim is a man. In another segment, Orman told a woman caller that her live-in boyfriend should pay the majority of the household living expenses because he made more money than her. Sorry Suze. This is the 21st century. Men are not walking wallets. It's not the responsibility of men to subsidize women. Now, it would have been different if Orman also suggested that the woman compensate by doing the majority of the household cooking and cleaning. But Orman didn't recommend this. Her attitude was, "You go girl. You're an independent career woman and your boyfriend should subsidize your life." Yeah, right.

 

[haha]

In another segment, Orman told a woman caller that her live-in boyfriend should pay the majority of the household living expenses because he made more money than her. Sorry Suze. This is the 21st century. Men are not walking wallets. It's not the responsibility of men to subsidize women. Now, it would have been different if Orman also suggested that the woman compensate by doing the majority of the household cooking and cleaning. But Orman didn't recommend this. Her attitude was, "You go girl. You're an independent career woman and your boyfriend should subsidize your life." Yeah, right.

Shawn, no matter how young you are you aren't going to live long enough to see an end to this stuff. Accept reality- a woman operates a toll booth, if you want what is on the other side, just pay the toll and enjoy the ride. I think the only control we have as men is to be sure that the payoff is worth the price, and that we don't take out any long term contracts. Women seem to work harder on commission. (Of course men do too!)

Ha

 

[Sarah in SC]

a woman is a toll booth, if you want what is on the other side, just pay the toll and enjoy the ride.

It took me quite a while to find a suitable toll booth image for this post, Ha.

 

[haha]

It took me quite a while to find a suitable toll booth image for this post, Ha.

Sarah, you are a very tolerant moderator, and a very cool woman.

I can't quite stop laughing.

Ha

 

[Nords]

Alright boys--must be desperate for entertainment if you are imagining Suze Orman naked, but whatever.
We took some young folks to see Dave Ramsey when he came to town a few weeks ago...

The heck with the boys. I'm a little concerned about the image created by your deliberate juxtaposition of the words "naked" and "Dave Ramsey"...

Almost as bad as "Ray Lucia" and his "buckets"!

Okay - I occasionally watch the SO show for entertainment value
DH can't stand the women and makes me change the channel.
Anyway, maybe she didn't listen to us, but she sure listens to Suze.
Last week she came by the house to pick up a package. It was something she bought from Suze Orman called the Ultimate Protection Portfolio. A water resistant case with CDs, folders, forms etc. for organizing all your records in one spot. If she follows through on completing the package, she will be more organized and prepared then DH and I.
So, I have a kinder view of Ms. Orman now.

Spouse had me research Suze's portfolio, and thank goodness we already had our stuff in one sack. I'd hate to have to admit to anyone, let alone my spouse, that Suze could teach me anything about life/financial/estate planning.

Suze's delivery makes Dr. Laura & Dr. Phil come across as mellow as Barney the Purple Dinosaur.

When spouse is all out of videotapes or other TV to watch, and she's just looking for mindless entertainment, she brings up Suze's "Can I Afford It." She's learned not to be drinking anything or eating choke-possible foods during the presentation. And if our daughter walks by during the show, it's usually a valuable teaching moment.

I think that a few episodes of "Can I Afford It?" should be mandatory viewing in teenager's financial-management classes. It's more entertaining than Beavis & Butthead, and no one would dare fall asleep during that spiel.

As for the members of this board, we could learn a lot about the members of the consumer economy by seeing what they consider to be important enough to risk being humiliated by Suze on national TV. Even when she approves their request, they're still humiliated!

 

[Leonidas]

And if our daughter walks by during the show, it's usually a valuable teaching moment...I think that a few episodes of "Can I Afford It?" should be mandatory viewing in teenager's financial-management classes. It's more entertaining than Beavis & Butthead, and no one would dare fall asleep during that spiel.

When I used to pick our oldest kid up from school I had either Dave Ramsey of Clark Howard's show on the radio. The stories would have us laughing all the way home. It's amazing how much the kid picked up from listening to those shows.

 

[Notmuchlonger]

Alright boys--must be desperate for entertainment if you are imagining Suze Orman naked, but whatever.

We took some young folks to see Dave Ramsey when he came to town a few weeks ago, and as others have said, his advice is not for the folks on this board, but it is where some of us started. It was a great program, inspiring and upbeat, and I saw a lot of enthused faces in the (huge) crowd.
I have no problem with folks getting the "be smart with money" info from Dave or from Suze. Much of our path to FIRE is paved with advice from Dave--and I did get a huge amount of satisfaction from yelling we're debt free on his radio program when we paid off the house!
Suze is nerve-wracking to listen to, no dispute with that!

Are we being bad? Are you going to moderate us? Oh and what a special picture you found

 

[Notmuchlonger]

Why do you guys always have to turn everything into a discussion about sex?

Its disgusting. Revolting.

I know bunch of pigs! GOSH

 

[cute fuzzy bunny]

Alright boys--must be desperate for entertainment if you are imagining Suze Orman naked, but whatever.

I think I speak for all of us when I say that picturing Suze naked never came into the equation. It was just that weird lesbian thing that got all all curious.

Not for any particularly good reason.

 

[Notmuchlonger]

I think I speak for all of us when I say that picturing Suze naked never came into the equation. It was just that weird lesbian thing that got all all curious.

Not for any particularly good reason.

Wait who was picturing her naked? The devil eye'd thing picture in leopard skin...ahhh oh yaa.

 

[Zoocat]

I've learned quite a lot from listening/watching these two financial "gurus." Plus, it's kind of entertaining. "Can I afford my own personal robot?" (on Suze Orman's "can I afford it?" segment. Her books are excellent too.

Also, Dave is admirable in the way he coaches people in dealing with collection agencies, which are, as he says, "Out of control!" and "Idiots in a cubicle." I had no idea how they harass people until I listened to his show. I also had no idea that CC companies can raise your rate so easily, for example, just because you applied for another CC. What a world!

So, I'm happy to recommend either of these advisors to my kids, my family members, my friends, if they seem to want more financial info.

 

[Achiever51]

It took me quite a while to find a suitable toll booth image for this post, Ha.

Sarah,
What is being depicted in that last drawing? Is that someone with a sheep?? Huh?

 

[Sarah in SC]

Achiever, quit drawing attention to my um, visual...I'm gonna get in trouble!
I sincerely hope (as do my sheep) that those are two people.

 

[Sue J]

I've watched Suze for a few years now and her delivery is grating but her message is usually worthwhile. Last year she promoted a TD Ameritrade "Save Yourself" account that paid a bonus of $100 if you saved $50/month for a year via auto deductions. I've always been a good saver but I'll jump through a few hoops for $100 and set up the account and got my $100 after the year was up. But even better, my 24 year old son also signed up, finished the year, got his $100 and just keeps letting it deduct and accumulate because it's so easy. In addition he saved up enough to pay off his car loan 4 years early.

I'm the only one here who watches both Dave and Suze but DH and the 2 sons overhear a lot of it and it looks like it's sinking in.

 

[BunsGettingFirm]

I bought my first house when I was 25. Did the whole thing myself. My dad had been out of the country for 4 years by then. What the OP's daughter is doing is great, but you really don't need Suze Orman or anyone else to tell you the value of money if you had to have a job starting when you're 13 years old and had to put yourself through college and grad school on scholarships. The school of hard knocks is the best teacher.

 

[clifp]

Alright boys--must be desperate for entertainment if you are imagining Suze Orman naked, but whatever.

We took some young folks to see Dave Ramsey when he came to town a few weeks ago, and as others have said, his advice is not for the folks on this board, but it is where some of us started. It was a great program, inspiring and upbeat, and I saw a lot of enthused faces in the (huge) crowd.
I have no problem with folks getting the "be smart with money" info from Dave or from Suze. Much of our path to FIRE is paved with advice from Dave--and I did get a huge amount of satisfaction from yelling we're debt free on his radio program when we paid off the house!
Suze is nerve-wracking to listen to, no dispute with that!

Why is Dave much more popular with the board than Suze and yet Suze is more popular than Dave (I think) with the public at large?

I hadn't head of Dave Ramsey before reading this board, and hadn't seen him until I started getting the Fox Business Channel. I enjoy looking at the Fox reporters, but Dave is my favorite show to turn the sound up. I only watch him for a few minutes at a time, because it isn't like I'm learning anything. Still I am impressed with his ability to give good sensible advice. On the other hand Suze drives me nuts.

Is the advice between the two very different? or is it just Suze's voice that annoys the heck of me.

 

[Goonie]

Last year she promoted a TD Ameritrade "Save Yourself" account that paid a bonus of $100 if you saved $50/month for a year via auto deductions. I've always been a good saver but I'll jump through a few hoops for $100 and set up the account and got my $100 after the year was up. But even better, my 24 year old son also signed up, finished the year, got his $100......

I found out about that "Save Yourself" account last year too. I'll be getting my $100 this month! I also had told my Mom about that deal, and she signed up for it too, so she'll also be getting her $100 this month! Not too bad of a deal for $50 a month x 12 months.....a 16.667% boost!

She said on her show to just get her book, and the "Code" number was in it. So off I went to Waldenbooks, found her book, looked inside, found the code # and wrote it down, and came back home to open my account. I didn't need to read her book, just needed the #.

 

[Sarah in SC]

Why is Dave much more popular with the board than Suze and yet Suze is more popular than Dave (I think) with the public at large?

I hadn't head of Dave Ramsey before reading this board, and hadn't seen him until I started getting the Fox Business Channel. I enjoy looking at the Fox reporters, but Dave is my favorite show to turn the sound up. I only watch him for a few minutes at a time, because it isn't like I'm learning anything. Still I am impressed with his ability to give good sensible advice. On the other hand Suze drives me nuts.

Is the advice between the two very different? or is it just Suze's voice that annoys the heck of me.

Hmm, I don't know, really, what other folks think on that but here's why I listen to Dave--he's on the radio (and has a commercial free podcast). I guess Suze is on the television so I've never seen her program, though I know her voice is like fingernails on a chalkboard from the stories of others and I've thumbed through her books.

I like that Dave Ramsey advocates keeping gifting in your budget and focuses on behavioral changes to how people think about their money. His live show was impressive--he seems to be the perfect storm of charisma, good message, excellent delivery, and the right venue. Plus I think there is some of that "but for the grace go I" in listening to some of the sad tales on his program--it reminds me that I am fortunate to have been born into middle class America and had so many opportunities available to me.

 

[Sue J]

Both Dave and Suze advise that debt is the thing that holds people back in their finances.

Dave says all debt is bad, don't borrow except for a house and pay that off as quickly as possible. When trying to get out of debt pay off the smallest debt first and then "snowball" that monthly payment into the next highest debt, etc, until all your debts are paid off. He does acknowledge that a 15 year fixed rate mortgage on your residence is ok.

Suze says there are good debts (for education, mortgages) and that the way to get out of debt is to pay down the debt with the highest interest rate and then pay the one with the next highest rate. Lately she's been changing her mind on student loans, especially private student loans, which she no longer advises you to use.

Dave just says, "Go to a college that you can afford." Save up, pay cash. Straight, plain advise, but not always practical for everyone.

Suze talks a lot about improving your FICO score so that you can get better rates on loans. Dave says that you should not "worship at the altar of the great FICO". Get out of debt, stay out of debt and you won't even need a FICO score.

Interesting stuff all around. I like to hear other people's stories and successes.

Anyone watch Carmen Wong Ulrich on CNBC "On The Money"?

 

[Olav23]

Dave seems to be the epitome of the Fox News persona, good Christian values, tithing, very breadbasket Middle America.

Suze is much more "progressive" and liberal, a brightly colored lesbian.

Both give straight forward "get out of debt" advice, but generally I think the blue states like Suze and the red like Dave. (to distill it to a single point)

 

[Gardnr]

Hmm, I don't know, really, what other folks think on that but here's why I listen to Dave--he's on the radio (and has a commercial free podcast). I guess Suze is on the television so I've never seen her program, though I know her voice is like fingernails on a chalkboard from the stories of others and I've thumbed through her books.

Yeah, I've been listening to DR's podcasts lately. Sometimes it gets to be a bit much though.

His over the top orthodoxy against debt is downright ridiculous and taken to the extreme sometimes. For instance: advocating that somebody pull out a lump sum from 401K/IRA as soon as they hit 59.5, damn the tax implications, because he'd "be debt free today" because of the "risk" they have with that debt. I think he's starting to lose it a bit.

Also any time he wanders into the realm of investing I grit my teeth. He always goes on about how 12% is what people should expect from their investments, and occasionally will tell somebody that they can withdraw 8% from their portfolio at retirement in perpetuity with 4% inflation. Ridiculously optimistic expectations he's setting for his largely underinformed followers; as we all know here.

I'm also aggravated with the increasing numbers of people who say things like: "We didn't know we shouldn't do that (run up huge debt to finance a lifestyle our income can't support) because we just started listening to you." AAAAGGGHHH!!! What's happened to common sense

I know, preaching to the choir here

And I personally cannot STAND Suze's voice! Five minutes is about all I can take.

 

[Olav23]

Oh yeah, I love Dave and his "Growth mutual funds" that return 12%. And if yours doesn't, you picked the wrong fund!

But Suze is no better with investment advice. She constantly goes after hot money funds, talks about certain asset classes being overvalued, all the while keeping all her own money in Munis!