Should I make my wishes known or just lay low?

[sheldon cornped]

I mentioned in earlier post that I thought job eliminations would occur at my location. Announcements by the Corp were that 550 jobs were being eliminated half at Corporate level and half throughout the divisions. Seems the Corporate was accomplished and some of the Ops. reductions have been made. Most eliminations will be made by end of March. My area is the most profitable in the Corp., so it seems we will be spared the brunt. These eliminations are said to be targeted and so far they have been. Job eliminations provide 1 yr. severance in my case, 3 mos. COBRA at the employee rate (cheap). There is another announced round of eliminations to go for next year. Severance, coupled with starting my pension would provide an amount greater than my current salary that would last at least 20 months. By then I will be 62. Then I would obviously continue pension and begin drawing from my taxable and tax-deferred savings and maybe start drawing SS as a bonus. FIRECALC shows me being quite safe all told.
My question is this: Do you think it would be beneficial or detrimental to telegraph that I would accept a package if offered? Could this work against me in that they might think I don't care about my job anymore? What consequences do you think there would be if I told my boss and/or HR that I would "sacrifice" myself (take a hit for the team)?
This would really be the most lucrative way to end my career.

 

[Gill]

My inclination would be to lay low. You are admitting to the company you are ready to retire, and just divulging this information could very well work against you in some strange way. I'd keep it to myself and hope for the best.
Bruce

 

[Ready]

It's an interesting situation to find yourself in. If you volunteer for a layoff but don't get "picked", then what? Is it possible that you could find yourself being let go down the road when they need to downsize but the severance isn't so generous? If not, then I don't see that much down side to speaking up. What's the worst thing they can do? Let you go later? As long as the severance later on is equally as good, I don't think you have much to lose.

However, as Bruce mentioned, if you think you might end up staying but being stigmatized, you will have to think about how you will feel in that situation.

 

[Aiming_4_55]

I think it might depend on your relationship with your boss and/or HR. Can you trust either? I would lay low until you got a better feel what they are doing. Good luck.

 

[sheldon cornped]

As far as severance, the current policy pretty well lays out the terms and conditions. I don't expect the policy to be diminished anytime soon although anything can happen. I am tending to agree with your opinions to lay low for the time being since in the next round, they might actually ask for ER volunteers like they did 5 years ago. They are targeting $75MM savings this year and $50MM for next year, so the cuts will probably go deeper next year. My problem is that I obsess too much about it, particularly when I read this forum every day and what a great life most are having living in ER!

 

[pb4uski]

......My question is this: Do you think it would be beneficial or detrimental to telegraph that I would accept a package if offered? Could this work against me in that they might think I don't care about my job anymore? What consequences do you think there would be if I told my boss and/or HR that I would "sacrifice" myself (take a hit for the team)?
This would really be the most lucrative way to end my career.

Tough call. I think it depends on the relationship you have with your boss and if your trust him/her. I would not go to HR. If you don't care about your job anymore it would show (or not) irrespective of your desire to retire.

 

[Turboslacker]

Wait for them to ask for volunteers then pounce on it! Hope it works out as good as it seems.

 

[springnr]

Delete / wrong post

 

[travelover]

Tough call. I think it depends on the relationship you have with your boss and if your trust him/her. I would not go to HR. If you don't care about your job anymore it would show (or not) irrespective of your desire to retire.

+1. I trusted one of my bosses (matrix management deal) and was emphatic that I wanted to go. Since they really wanted to cut costs and and would rather not do layoffs, I was in.

That said, if it was a lesser cut and my chances were smaller of being "chosen", I'd have kept quiet. Once you are marked as looking to retire, you are a dead man walking.

 

[EllisWyatt]

As pb4uski said, a lot depend on your relationship with your management. In one scenario, if you telegraph your intentions to leave, there is no reason for the company to provide additional financial incentive to encourage you to do what you were already intending to do.

 

[tryan]

I would tell your boss ... I think he'll be relieved to know it's one less hard decision for him.

As far as what corporate - or anyone else - "thinks" about your decision .... WHO CARES! Get out while the package is good. I watched megacorp cut the severance twice ... then they cut me. Reducing the "package" is a no-brainer for cost cutters.

 

[teejayevans]

I would tell your boss ... I think he'll be relieved to know it's one less hard decision for him.

I would be careful, you might want to hint that you are prepared for retirement, but don't put anything in writing unless they come to you first with an offer.

 

[brett]

I went out this way. I did not have to volunteer, we had a new Executive come in who did away with regional management. It is the only way to go. In my case I was financially prepared and even had a short list of recommended labour lawyers to handle my separation. I had a great separation package, then unemployment insurance, then I took my SS and company pension. The trick of course is to be financially ready for it.

I would say that your decision should be based on your relationship with your manager. As a Director, I had a number of people volunteer over the years. It was no issue for me. In fact, on more than one occasion I 'tipped the wink' to an employee that I knew was going to leave or retire and asked them to delay for a month or so in the full knowledge that downsizing was imminent. If I was going to loose someone, I wanted it to be someone who was going to leave anyway. My concern was that we were cutting to the bone...I wanted to protect my business. In my case, resignations/retirement were often not replaced by HR reqs, essentially just counted as additional downsizing.

 

[rodi]

At my corp I've seen it go both ways. They've had many rounds of layoffs - but never asked for volunteers, unfortunately.

One former coworker told his manager, who told our common director, that he was willing to be laid off. The director decided he was disloyal and made his life a living hell. Micromanaging him to extreme levels. He ended up quitting without the severance.

My boss is doesn't like me and I don't like him. But we're stuck with each other. I would never tell my boss given that dynamic. That said - a former manager, who has input to layoffs is a friend. I've let *him* know that I'd be ok with a layoff. He's kept his mouth shut so far - hasn't told the director or my boss that I know of.

Unfortunately - the list of people volunteering is getting longer. A few folks were hanging around hoping for layoffs after our last corporate acquisition - but our department was spared - they've since retired. Now a few other folks are biding time for the ESPP plan to vest - since it's going to be a big gain... I think there will be a few people giving notice in a few months...

Do not tell HR. HR, in general, is looking to save the company money, not to have your back.

 

[rayvt]

Do you think it would be beneficial or detrimental to telegraph that I would accept a package if offered?

Do not do this.

If you want to be up-front, go to your boss -- or your boss's boss -- and tell them that you will volunteer to be included in the layoff. If that's what you want. If you don't want to get laid off, say nothing.

That's what I did. Even though they did not ask for volunteers, there were a couple of us who pro-actively (quietly and privately) told our managers that we would volunteer if there was a layoff coming.

Just don't put yourself into a position where you might not get a severance package. Over the years our company's severance packages got slimmer and slimmer. A few years after I left, the severance package was "here's the phone number of the state unemployment benefit office". A few years before I left, the package was 2 years salary. Ours was 1 year salary plus one year of insurance at the employee rate.

Most managers HATE to lay off people. It's a very gut-wrenching emotional experience to sit across the table from somebody and tell them they are fired and put up with their shock and tears. They much prefer to let somebody go that is happy to be laid off.

 

[clifp]

If you have good relationship with your boss, I'd tell him you'd like to volunteer to be laid off. I agree nothing to be gained telling HR.

I have been on both side of the fence. I didn't have to lay off many people, but I was super grateful to a lady who was going on maternity leave, when she tell us that it was ok to lay her off cause she wasn't planning on coming back. She was solid but not superstar employee, but there was no way in hell we were going to lay of a pregnant woman, and open ourselves up to a ugly lawsuit.

I think the same thing is true for a 60+ year old man, most companies would hesitate to do so because of age discrimination lawsuits. So let them know you volunteer, it substantially increases your chances of being given a nice severance package.

My last 5 months,were spent doing a make work job after I returned from sabbatical. My friend was very nice to provide me the job. So when it came for annual salary and stock options, I let her know please give those to the rest of your department. She was particularly pleased about having my stock options to spread out among her employees who might actually be there in 4 years to cash them in.

 

[Ed_The_Gypsy]

I think it might depend on your relationship with your boss and/or HR. Can you trust either? I would lay low until you got a better feel what they are doing. Good luck.

Answer: You cannot trust either one. They do not work for you. They work for the company.

 

[scrinch]

If it were me, I would let my boss (not HR) know that I was contemplating retiring in a few years, and with the package you might even be able to swing retirement financially a little sooner. If you tell her that, then you won't be seen as ready to jump ship so much as being ready to reach the last stage of your career.

 

[sheldon cornped]

Man, you guys are dishing out some pretty good food for thought here! We all realize circumstances are different in many situations and there are no absolutes. I am by nature not a big risk taker in these matters. I feel the Corp is still pretty solid in that it has a seriously overfunded pension plan which is being tapped to cover the job severances. I don't completely trust my boss although he has to admit I'm a performer as evidenced by my last performance appraisal and results. We have a brand new HR guy, so that is an unknown. I think I will lay low for now as some of you have recommended. My son will graduate HS in 2015 and has aspirations to go Ivy League or Stanford etc..., so we're looking at a potentially big price tag, unless we can convince him to go for a free ride at a 2nd tier school. So staying with the w**k thing will help us stash some more acorns. I'm ok with that. But........won't you pleeeeeez give me a package??

 

[growing_older]

The only way I would let anyone know is if I really had an excellent relationship and trusted them. Only a very few managers I've worked with would meet this standard. No HR person I've ever worked with would. The downside of telling an untrustworthy person that I'm okay with being let go, even with a package, is that if I do not get the package I could easily end up dead man walking at work, given uninteresting assignments, kept away from work that has any long term value to the company, or simply managed out without a package.

 

[38Chevy454]

Having seen the cuts happen to both voluntary and involuntary separation, I will say it is best for all involved to have someone go out the door smiling and happy vs being kicked out and very unhappy. I believe most companies will try to do the voluntary option first, it is better for everyone involved.

I would tell your boss, or maybe two levels above boss, that you would be interested if it could save a younger person. That younger person may have a lot more financial obligations. It would be significant stress if they were let go in an involuntary separation. You already have the financial means to do it, especially with a little bit of severance help.

Your age is close to when you were planning, so use this to your advantage and give hint you want to keep morale up for the group and would go out graciously, instead of someone else that wants to stay working. Nothing kills morale more than everyone wondering when the ax will fall, and who will get it.

 

[brett]

If you do not 'absolutely trust' you boss then do nothing. Just wait them out, keep your eyes open, and your ears close to the ground.

As others have said, do not trust HR. They are NOT your friend in this situation.

Good luck.

 

[Ed_The_Gypsy]

Having seen the cuts happen to both voluntary and involuntary separation, I will say it is best for all involved to have someone go out the door smiling and happy vs being kicked out and very unhappy. I believe most companies will try to do the voluntary option first, it is better for everyone involved.

I would tell your boss, or maybe two levels above boss, that you would be interested if it could save a younger person. That younger person may have a lot more financial obligations. It would be significant stress if they were let go in an involuntary separation. You already have the financial means to do it, especially with a little bit of severance help.

Your age is close to when you were planning, so use this to your advantage and give hint you want to keep morale up for the group and would go out graciously, instead of someone else that wants to stay working. Nothing kills morale more than everyone wondering when the ax will fall, and who will get it.

You are in management, right?

 

[Which Roger]

As pb4uski said, a lot depend on your relationship with your management. In one scenario, if you telegraph your intentions to leave, there is no reason for the company to provide additional financial incentive to encourage you to do what you were already intending to do.

In my former MegaCorp, the way things worked was that the manager 2 levels above me (my boss's boss) would submit a list of names to HR a couple weeks before the layoff. So HR was not aware of an individual's intentions unless/until that person made the list.

My company had a couple rounds of layoffs last year. Since I was planning on leaving anyway, it was a no brainer for me to volunteer to get laid off. As it turned out, the work my group was doing was in demand, and the department head didn't want to lose any of his budget/headcount, so my efforts were for naught. After trying twice, I decided to leave on my own terms without a severance package.

When I volunteered to be laid off, I did not tell my boss that I was planning on leaving regardless. As others have indicated in this thread, I thought I would lose all my leverage if I said "If you don't pay me to quit, I'm going to quit anyway". However, when I finally told my boss that I was leaving, he mentioned that since in MegaCorps, the source of the severance money is far removed from the people who are deciding who to lay off, I may have actually had more leverage if I indicated my true intentions. But who knew?

 

[Live And Learn]

I did exactly this last year. I wanted to go, I knew I was FI and I volunteered to be severed from MegaCorp. My bosses, who I knew and mostly trusted, agreed. I agreed to wait for my official severance notification until they found a replacement. A few people were interviewed but after four months they still hadn't found a replacement. This gave me time to second guess my decision and I chickened out !!!! They took me back with open arms. No repercussions whatsoever.

I would let them know that you wouldn't be adverse to a RIF. Tell them you love your job, you love the company, but sometimes you wonder if trying something different might be fun and that this would give you the opportunity to explore new horizons (they don't need to know that you would simply fully retire).