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Old 10-23-2016, 12:13 PM   #41
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I don't think you have any bad options, but it sounds like you are a bit bored and where you are at. Maybe you need some stretch goals and be working towards them? Either try out a new more exciting job or city, take classes, start your own side business or some combination?

I used to do in house tech recruiting for a SF Bay area company and I can tell you recruiters get pretty excited at getting resumes from highly qualified, but underpaid single people in low wage states. We could offer relocation packages and huge salary increases and everybody was happy. But once people got married and had kids, even if one spouse wanted to move, the offer often got turned down because the other spouse didn't want to leave friends or family or they decided not to disrupt the kids' friends and school life. One exception was a guy took our offer and divorced his wife who didn't want to move! So if you think you might want to move and also have plans to get married and/or have a family some day, now is the time to do the move or you may lose your window of opportunity.

With the local IT people many of the really skilled ones either went into contracting where they could set their own rates and charge by the hour or they changed jobs every few years / quit and got counter offers to get paid market wages. The HR system at many companies was dysfunctional for keeping good IT talent back then and doesn't seem to have changed much over the years.
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Old 10-23-2016, 12:42 PM   #42
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Originally Posted by Bamaman View Post
I have no desire to work for any company in true financial difficulties. Life is not worth worrying about the next paycheck--and lack of keeping up with the cost of living.
They are not in danger if closing anytime soon and the company is positioned for a rebound. That being said, I am underpaid and management would rather line their own pockets (and hire cronies to fill those positions) rather than reward loyal employees.

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You're in an industry where some people are very talented in their field--but they're not talented at marketing their skills. I've seen high level IT professionals that should have worked harder at finding better companies to work for.
That is very true. Whether I accept this offer or not, I really need to give serious consideration to moving on.
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Old 10-23-2016, 12:52 PM   #43
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You seem conflicted, rightfully so.

The stagnation you mention in your current role means your marketability could decrease a LOT over the next few years, and doing this hop at 45 vs. 35 will be much harder, and likely you'll find many doors closed that are open now.
Exactly! This has been on my mind. If I make a move, it needs to be very soon.

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You mention you live close to family now - do you have young kids? Are schools good? If yes, a vote for the stay column.
No kids although I am not getting much family support. I told one family member who wasn't excited. My grandmother thinks it is horrible if any of her kids or grandkids were to move...although to be honest, I would not see her (or any other family members) any less than I do now.

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If not, I'd map out your financial picture for stay vs. go with a 10 year lookout. Factor in the new salary and increased 401k match, minus the vacation, increased COL, everything, and see if there's a significant difference in 10 years.

If the move puts you markedly ahead, there you go.
It seems to but there could be hidden costs I am not thinking of, going to have to look into further.
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Old 10-23-2016, 01:41 PM   #44
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Also, it is not just the current offer that you should consider. Is there more opportunity for promotion? I left a job for equal pay in higher cost of living area, but more opportunity. That allowed me to move up and increase salary several times over the years. Now I am FI even I haven't been able to to pull trigger to FIRE
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Old 10-23-2016, 02:16 PM   #45
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I don't think you have any bad options, but it sounds like you are a bit bored and where you are at. Maybe you need some stretch goals and be working towards them? Either try out a new more exciting job or city, take classes, start your own side business or some combination?
Yes a little bored and complacent.
I have considered those options as well. I would like to start a business someday and have considered taking classes.

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I
I used to do in house tech recruiting for a SF Bay area company and I can tell you recruiters get pretty excited at getting resumes from highly qualified, but underpaid single people in low wage states. We could offer relocation packages and huge salary increases and everybody was happy. But once people got married and had kids, even if one spouse wanted to move, the offer often got turned down because the other spouse didn't want to leave friends or family or they decided not to disrupt the kids' friends and school life. One exception was a guy took our offer and divorced his wife who didn't want to move! So if you think you might want to move and also have plans to get married and/or have a family some day, now is the time to do the move or you may lose your window of opportunity.

With the local IT people many of the really skilled ones either went into contracting where they could set their own rates and charge by the hour or they changed jobs every few years / quit and got counter offers to get paid market wages. The HR system at many companies was dysfunctional for keeping good IT talent back then and doesn't seem to have changed much over the years.
Thanks for the info! I have thought about getting with a recruiter in the nearest big city, I have mainly been applying directly to companies. I am trying to figure out whether this offer is as good as any I would get or not. The money is good and I did feel a positive vibe with the managers I dealt with. They have been friendly, straightforward, and patient with me as I think it over. The main problem is that nearly 3 hour drive when I could perhaps find something that is just over 2 hours away or in a closer city that is less than 2 hours away (but which has a higher cost of living)
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Old 10-23-2016, 02:23 PM   #46
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Also, it is not just the current offer that you should consider. Is there more opportunity for promotion? I left a job for equal pay in higher cost of living area, but more opportunity. That allowed me to move up and increase salary several times over the years. Now I am FI even I haven't been able to to pull trigger to FIRE
It doesn't seem like it. The managers I spoke to have both been with the company for nearly 20 years. It is a small IT dept with less than 10 people.

There is not much opportunity for advancement where I am at OTOH as I was recently passed over in favor of less experienced/skilled co workers. The logical transition is to a corporate dev team but if it hasn't happen by now, it probably will not. It is a carrot on a stick that has been dangled in front of me for years.
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Old 10-23-2016, 05:50 PM   #47
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If not, I'd map out your financial picture for stay vs. go with a 10 year lookout. Factor in the new salary and increased 401k match, minus the vacation, increased COL, everything, and see if there's a significant difference in 10 years.

If the move puts you markedly ahead, there you go.
Here are the numbers:

After tax salary increase would be approx 16k

----

Option 1: Stay put
-8k (housing and vehicle expenses: this includes mortgage not counting payment toward principle, also includes gas, vehicle wear and tear, etc)
1.5k: value of one week extra vacation which current job offers but other company does not

Total house/vehicle expenses + extra vac time = -6.5k

-----

Option 2: Rent cheap apt close to work and keep house for weekend use

-16k (rent, mortgage, and vehicle expense: apt would be closer to new job, but driving expenses would be the same due to visits home every other weekend, additional heating costs to heat 2nd dwelling)
-2k misc expenses (internet at two homes, heat, gym membership, snow removal, etc)
+16k additional salary

Total house/vehicle/misc expenses + increased salary = -2k

NET GAIN (vs. Staying put) = 4500 after tax per year

----

Option 3: Move to apartment near new job and rent out or sell house

-13k (Housing and vehicle expenses)
-1k (misc expenses I do not currently have like gym membership for example)
+16k additional salary

Expenses + increased salary = +2k

NET GAIN vs. Staying put = 8500 after tax per year

-----

The new job commute would likely be 1 hour shorter. The work day is a half hour longer per day. Between that and the time spend driving back home (lets say 2x per month), the time factor in all three scenerios is pretty much a wash even if commute goes from 45 min to 15 min each way.
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Old 10-23-2016, 05:59 PM   #48
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Where do I want to be in 10 years? Self employed - perhaps create a product and sell it and/or freelance. I would consider a career change due to the ageism in this field, but not too many career fields look for entry level people in their 40s which is what I would be when finishing up a degree program.

I am thinking either: 1) keep currrent job and get some type of business going in the side or 2) Pursue jobs to maximize income which would likely require moving around and/or working longer hours (which could make it more difficult to work on side projects).
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Old 10-23-2016, 06:06 PM   #49
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Option 2 would be by far my last choice. I think you need to decide whether you want the new job or your current house, not both. I would stay at the job you have and like and if you one day don't like it then go to contract/freelance work.
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Old 10-23-2016, 06:16 PM   #50
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Option 2 would be by far my last choice. I think you need to decide whether you want the new job or your current house, not both. I would stay at the job you have and like and if you one day don't like it then go to contract/freelance work.
I was liking that idea at first - best of both worlds - but that trip could get old after awhile. That 3 hour trip could be longer during construction season or bad weather. Then there is the less ideal living conditions 5/7 of the time and having to maintain two households. If I were to get into a relationship, that could strain the relationship. This option would make life more complicated. Bad idea.
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Old 10-23-2016, 06:28 PM   #51
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Take the new job, sell the house, take a leap of faith.
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Old 10-23-2016, 07:16 PM   #52
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Take the new job, sell the house, take a leap of faith.
OR... Don't fix what's not broken. Don't take unnecessary risks.

I don't think we are making the OPs decision any easier.
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Old 10-23-2016, 07:24 PM   #53
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That'll teach 'em to ask questions about working in a retirement forum -
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Old 10-23-2016, 08:28 PM   #54
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OR... Don't fix what's not broken. Don't take unnecessary risks.

I don't think we are making the OPs decision any easier.
Lol not really but there are good cases to be made in either direction and I do appreciate everyone's words of wisdom. I have been pondering this for over a week now, made lists of pros and cons, crunched the numbers, and keep going back and forth. I might just end up flipping a coin

I have a friend who left a stable job to take a (local) job making more money....he ended up being laid off 6 months later and it took him awhile to get back on his feet. That is the kind of thing that has me hesitant to make such a move.
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Old 10-23-2016, 08:30 PM   #55
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If you have not already, you might also want to ask your question on Reddit in subreddits like frugal or financial independence. There are more people your age and a fair number seem to work in IT on those forums.

One interesting thing I've noticed is that some of the FI poster's dreams are to save up money, move to a low cost of living place, have a mortgage free home and then not work or downshift to a low stress job. So you are actually now already living other some other people's dream life. But it might be harder to appreciate without first having experienced a high paying yet soul crushing megacorp career and expensive urban housing lifestyle.
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Old 10-23-2016, 08:38 PM   #56
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That'll teach 'em to ask questions about working in a retirement forum -
Lol... Might be a strange question for this forum but it does relate to finances. If I ask anyone close to me their opinion, I cannot get an unbiased answer because naturally they look at how it affects them.
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Old 10-23-2016, 08:50 PM   #57
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If you have not already, you might also want to ask your question on Reddit in subreddits like frugal or financial independence. There are more people your age and a fair number seem to work in IT on those forums.
Good idea, thanks.

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One interesting thing I've noticed is that some of the FI poster's dreams are to save up money, move to a low cost of living place, have a mortgage free home and then not work or downshift to a low stress job. So you are actually now already living other some other people's dream life. But it might be harder to appreciate without first having experienced a high paying yet soul crushing megacorp career and expensive urban housing lifestyle.
Good observation. It is stressful at times but it could be worse. I don't envy the people higher up on the ladder where I work. Perhaps I should be looking for a lower stress/lower paying job instead lol. Most of my hobbies and interests are low cost and I do value time more than money. I would love to have a shorter commute which is nearly impossible in this field. As they say, the grass is greener on the other side.
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Old 10-23-2016, 09:00 PM   #58
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You should do what you want to do because you really feel it's right.

Don't get caught up in the "salary survey" stuff, just consider weather or not you like your job and the company and where you are right now.

If you are happy, that's the most important thing. If you are not happy then it's time to move.
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Old 10-23-2016, 09:22 PM   #59
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You should do what you want to do because you really feel it's right.

Don't get caught up in the "salary survey" stuff, just consider weather or not you like your job and the company and where you are right now.

If you are happy, that's the most important thing. If you are not happy then it's time to move.
+1
There are risks and benefits either way. Fundamentally, this decision is about what you value at this point in your life: unambitious continuity versus urban excitement and opportunity.

When I was your age I followed my dreams internationally, but I didn't own a home until my mid 30's, when I had fulfilled some of my career goals and wanted to settle down for a while. I am so glad I didn't become a homeowner earlier: it would have cramped my career mobility. Twenty years later, approaching FI, my priorities had changed.

Only you can decide. And not deciding is a decision too.
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Old 10-23-2016, 11:33 PM   #60
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I don't recall if you addressed this aspect already...but what is the possibility of taking the new job, and then moving on up either in this new company, or finding another new job (in a few years) with someone else in the new city, with an even higher salary? Also, don't forget to analyze what you enjoy about various jobs, and possibly making a related career move into a new position (but still somewhat related), but which builds on your knowledge, experience, and abilities?
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