Should we be letting kids handle more of college costs?

[REWahoo]

The high school my son is in is affiliated with the state university. We pay an "admin fee" for a college level class ... the HS pays the tuition. As a sophomore he already has 4 college credits. By senior year I expect he'll have more than a semester of college under his belt. Total cost to us .... less than a grand.

Similar situation here with my oldest grandson. His school district entered into a cooperative agreement with a community college that is constructing a classroom building next door to the high school. Starting next year he will be able to take dual credit courses in English and history. Plans are to expand the program so that his two younger brothers will be able to obtain even more college credits by the time they graduate.

Another nearby district takes the CC dual credit concept "all the way". 45 students graduated this year and received both their high school diploma and an Associates degree.

 

[shotgunner]

I am a divorced father and my daughter just graduated from an expensive private Catholic liberal arts college. My ex is very religous and pushed our daughter to attend this school. Since my wife works for the state University my daughter chose to forego the 1/2 tuition discount available. She majored in Communication which is a more difficult degree to sell then say Nursing, Engineering etc. I gave my daughter $5K a year, a used car with maintainence, registration and insurance covered by me. and a new car (economy sedan) as a graduation gift. She has graduated with about $40K in student debt. She became gainfully employed in a field I call high satisfaction, low pay with starting salary of 30K. I would like to have done more for her, hope I have done enough for her but I did not want to compromise my retirement, early or not. She and my ex had a much less expensive option at a state University and chose not to take it, that was not a choice I would have made at that age. In fact I chose to live at home for 3 years while I attended college, went into ROTC to help pay for it and in my senior year I worked 32 hours week in addition to being a full time student. My paradigm was much different, I graduated debt free. I love my daughter, wished she had made a less expensive choice but I must accept what is done is done.

 

[38Chevy454]

I agree with OP Rob, and think students should have some responsibility for their college costs. Not only does it emphasize that money is not free, but they have a better appreciation for why they are there. It is an investment in education with an expected higher paying job when graduated. Assuming of course the education major is one with good employment future, not some useless liberal arts degree where the employment option is no better than a HS diploma: "Do you want fries with that?"

I paid for approx 80% of my college costs, the rest picked up by my parents. The 80% majority from a J-O-B scholarship, i.e. working 25 hours/week during school and full time at an engineering intern type job in summer. I never went on spring break, remember that PT job that I was required to keep up? I also have worked full time since 15 years old, with PT during school. I went to an excellent in-state college and that helped the costs for tuition/registration fees. I went to college away from home for all 5 years (that working thing......), and did not do the local junior college starting 2-3 years. I am an engineer, so school with PT work was a significant time commitment.

I do think that it is harder now for a student to be self-supporting than in my time of mid-80's. College costs have gone way up much higher than the rest of inflation and costs of living have. Some other methods of saving money and/or getting money to pay for school is needed.

Counting on scholarship money is a high risk plan. Per most people here on E-R.org, a plan with minimized risks and evalulating the options is far more likely path to succesfully meeting the end goal.

There are far too many spoiled kids that go to college without any personal stake, it is the next step in their lives without any goal for their life after graduation. Their parents might very well be able to afford it, or the student could be maxed out on loans and then takes forever to get out of that debt. Either way, you must have a degree that will be positive cost/benefit ratio. Too many useless degrees with negative ratios.

 

[tryan]

My kids will definately have a skin in the game via college loans.

Watched my golf partner send his son to a small college for 33k freshmen year. His son hooked up with a few pot heads (lax team mates). Got a 0.0 first semester. Is now home lifeguarding while attending a CC. Comically, every phone call home he said he doing well in his classes. Expensive lessons indeed.

 

[Brat]

..

My biggest surprise has been with my oldest (younger is still in high school). He was a strong student in high school, did very well on his SATs, took many AP classes, super responsible, overall great kid, etc. He has finished his first two years in college and still is struggling to settle on a major. He started off in engineering and did ok in all his calc classes, etc. But he doesn't love it and has told me he isn't sure he wants to keep going down that path. The next two years will be all upper level math and engineering and he said he can get through it, but he hates it. He also is considering IT or Finance but keeps going back and forth. He is still signed up for engineering classes for fall classes but is leaning towards changing them and choosing a new major. This will add another semester to his schooling, which he will pay for using his savings from his summer/winter jobs over the last few years. I am at a total loss to guide him other than providing him a list of careers/earnings to consider. I also am not sure that just taking a semester or two off will help him decide either.

I can imagine that there are a lot of 20 year olds that are in a similar boat.

My daughter went through exactly the same experience. She was an engineering major with very good grades but discovered that she didn't like work that is individual contributor in nature. In hs she was involved in things like debate and speech, active in sports. Engineering wasn't a good style fit for her. She switched to her university's school of finance, one that is well regarded. I warned her that she would need to get a CPA but she didn't really want to be an accountant. I told her that it is a ticket that she needed to get punched but after that there would be many career paths available. She has done well, she is a CFO where her analytical, presentation, and leadership skills are put to good use.

If we had known that she would be such a high earning we wouldn't have paid off her student loans.

 

[MichaelB]

Education in the US is one of life's best deals. Many of us had the good fortune to reach our high school and college years in the 60s and 70s when it was widely available, high quality and was still cost affordable. Now the price is much higher and still is a good deal - more so if the student can take advantage of it to acquire and reinforce critical skills and gain a competitive edge.

As for who pays and how much, my experience was that there was a much greater sense of value and cost benefit where the parents made clear at an early age how much they would pay. Being able to graduate with little or no debt is a tremendous gift and great way to start working life.

 

[CaliforniaMan]

Kids learn a lot from college, not just academics. Depending on the school they go to and who they associate with they are also learning the lessons of frugality, or extravagance. I always planned to fund a state U for my kids, anything more they would have to do themselves.

When they finally got to the university after the freshman year they were required to get a job for spending money. Debt was never considered to be an option. No matter what, they had to find a way through college and get out without the burden of any debt.

One is finished now, working and doing well. The other is still there, getting good grades, working, and spending very little.

I don't buy the argument that the costs are exorbitant to get a quality education, just have to choose the school, the major, and handle living expenses well.

For myself I went to CC, some of the profs there were actually better than at the U. Took some courses from moonlighting engineers and UCSD professors. Though I did loose some credits in the transfer (probably more due to my choices than the CC).

As some others here I never took a dime from home, got some scholarships, and always worked. I went backpacking, but never skiing. My meatloaf was mostly corn meal. Met my future wife there who obviously didn't marry me for my money. I had a great time and learned a lot about frugality. I had money in the bank when I graduated with my BA and MS (worked full time doing the Masters).

My DS still at the University knows what is in his college fund, that it is only for education, and that when he finishes, what is left over is his. He is very frugal with that money.

The University is preparation for life in many ways, my feeling is if they don't learn frugality there they are pretty much doomed no matter what their major is.

 

[45th Birthday]

I paid for almost all of my college and graduate school costs through savings, grants, loans, and work study. My wife's parent paid for the vast majority of her costs, although she ended up with some loans from grad school.

We decided that we would pay for our two kids' college-the best they could get into. Both go to very competitive small private colleges where you can get assistance only if financially needy (no merit aid). They pay for some incidental expenses and frills. Both have summer jobs and one makes a bit during school. Total cost for the two is about $125,000. We are happy to be able to do it. They are both doing well in places that are a good fit for them. As for grad school, we have told them to expect to pay most of that themselves, and to only go after they have worked for at least two years. They know how fortunate they are. They have seen friends struggle and fall by the wayside.

I've read articles that say that one of the top predictors of happiness in a career is how much the person has in student loans (inverse relationship).

 

[chonga]

I was fortunate that my parents paid for my education through College. I will do the same for my 2 sons. I think it boils down to each family's financial situation.

The cost of college has skyrocketed!! I purchased the Florida Prepaid program but now that is only covering about half the cost. My goal is to save for 1 or 2 more years after college expenses are completed to be FI (2019), then RE whenever I want after that.

 

[rodi]

I was involved in a discussion about whether kids should work p/t jobs in college. A friend stated that kids will only do X amount of studying. Free time is spent partying. A p/t job reduces the partying, and is probably better for them not getting into trouble.

I tend to agree with this idea.

I have lots of coworkers who state they don't want their kids to work because they want them to focus on school. I always ask their kids GPAs and whether they're on track to graduate in 4 years.

As far as getting college credits in highschool... my sons are attending International Baccalaureate public schools - if they do it right - they'll end up with up to 30 transferable units upon graduation - recognized by UC/Ivy schools, etc. This is more bang for the buck than AP courses. But it involves academic rigor in high school and passing some really hard exams at the end. I debated whether to send them to a well rated neighborhood school that focuses on AP courses, or this school that is 10 miles away (still part of the same district) but has the IB program. They're in middle school now but already starting on the IB course work.

 

[CaliforniaMan]

I was involved in a discussion about whether kids should work p/t jobs in college. A friend stated that kids will only do X amount of studying. Free time is spent partying. A p/t job reduces the partying, and is probably better for them not getting into trouble.

I tend to agree with this idea.
...

+1 I agree with this 100% as well. Helps them with time management as well as determining who they associate with. Even if they don't need the money, I think college students should work part time to help prepare for real life.

 

[MichaelB]

I was involved in a discussion about whether kids should work p/t jobs in college. A friend stated that kids will only do X amount of studying. Free time is spent partying. A p/t job reduces the partying, and is probably better for them not getting into trouble.

That was my case, I worked >25 hours x week my freshman year and >30 from then on. No time to party (or sleep), also no $$ for entertainment, all my income went to pay school expenses.

A classmate of ours (DW and I were college sweethearts) recently reunited with us, and one night over dinner commented that she always thought I was "stanf-offish" because I "was always hanging out with other people". She was surprised to learn that I wasn't hanging with anybody, but working.

Now, with three college grads well into adulthood, I have no doubt that the partying is an incredible waste of a precious opportunity, but I'm not sure how valuable all that work is.

 

[Katsmeow]

I was involved in a discussion about whether kids should work p/t jobs in college. A friend stated that kids will only do X amount of studying. Free time is spent partying. A p/t job reduces the partying, and is probably better for them not getting into trouble.

I tend to agree with this idea.

I have lots of coworkers who state they don't want their kids to work because they want them to focus on school. I always ask their kids GPAs and whether they're on track to graduate in 4 years.

My son did work during school last fall and he did OK with grades. That said, he didn't work this spring (at my suggestion) and he did better with grades.

The problem I have with your friend's analysis is that it seems to allow room for studying, partying and work and seems to assume that kids will do only 2 of those and that studying is always one of the 2.

I have problems with both those assumptions. First - DS is not a big partier. He does have friends and he does socialize. But, he also spends a lot of time sort of doing nothing special. He'll play video games, or watch a stream of a game, or even read a book. Maybe this is because of his ADHD, but he seems to need that time to just sort of do nothing. It isn't partying, though. And, he seems to do better if he has the time to both do that and the time to study.

When he was working, the job didn't cut into the doing nothing productive time that I'm talking about. Instead the job cut into his studying time.

Sure, he met his deadlines for his work which is why he had OK grades last fall (and to be fair an A in his major). But, he didn't really do anything extra. Between work and doing what he had to do to meet his deadlines at school he didn't have a lot of time left over and he spent most of that doing the kind of things I described above.

This last semester he didn't work. It is my observation that he did spend more time on studying this semester. For one thing he had more time to meet with various study groups with other students. Last semester he often couldn't do that because of conflict with his work schedule. This semester he could. Last semester, he was having a problem in one course and the only time the college's tutoring center was available for that course was while he was working. This semester, whenever he ran into a problem, he could easily go to get help whenever it was available.

Now he still did plenty of playing videogames, listening to music, watching game streams, etc. And, probably more than he did last semester. But, there is no question that he studied more this semester and had better overall grades.

BTW, I do think that many kids can work and go to school at the same time. It just depends on the student. Theoretically I always thought the kids should work and go to school for much the reason you state. It is just that this is one of those things where my actual experience with my own kids showed me it was better not to work.

 

[Hamlet]

Yup, people are different.

My working didn't cut into my studying or partying. It cut into sleep.

I had a job with Facilities Management where I monitored the heating, AC, and fire alarms for a bunch of the U's buildings. I also answered the phone. When it wasn't busy, it was a job you could study at, so it didn't cut into my studying much.

However, the hours were often overnights. I would have weeks where I would work Monday, Wednesday, and Friday overnight. So I pretty much slept every other night on those weeks. I'd catch a few hours of sleep on campus between my classes whenever I could find somewhere out of the way to sleep. I often slept in big classes that I wasn't signed up for. That was entertaining on test days.

BTW, I do think that many kids can work and go to school at the same time. It just depends on the student. Theoretically I always thought the kids should work and go to school for much the reason you state. It is just that this is one of those things where my actual experience with my own kids showed me it was better not to work.

 

[user5027]

I always respected the student that could juggle work and school successfully.

I recall attending college orientation with my son. One of the staff members said the students should expect to study two hours for every hour of class time. 16 credits x 3 = 48 hours per week between classes and studying. A full time job in itself.

 

[eytonxav]

Uncle Sam and scholarship took care of most of my college expense, plus some help from my Dad and working myself. That was back in a different era and costs were more reasonable and opportunities were also better back then with a college degree. I was a EE.

As to our kids, we funded 4 years at a public U for DS's undergrad and provided some $s towards his MBA, while he paid the lions share for the later. For DD, we paid 2 years at a public and 2 years at a private.

Times have changed, college costs have increased dramatically and opportunities have decreased at least compared to when I went to school. We felt an obligation to give our kids every advantage moving forward without saddling them with a very large debt to repay. I guess every parent looks at this differently, but DW and I felt the same on what we wanted to do. Likewise, I hope to leave our kids a decent nest egg when we are gone.

 

[daylatedollarshort]

The experience we had with our kids and part time retail work is that the kids will ask for 10 - 15 hour a week jobs, some of the other kids tend to be slackoffs, quit or call in sick, so our kids would get scheduled 20 - 30 hours, right when they have midterms or finals and get put between a rock and a hard place. Plus the schedules would change week to week and maybe not get posted until the day before, so it made it very hard for them to plan study sessions and project work.

We decided to provide spending money in exchange for them keeping up their GPAs and doing club and volunteer work, though one is getting far enough along in school to get paid internships now. One kiddo also took a Saturday class outside of school to work towards a professional certification.