Join Early Retirement Today
Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
SS Redux
Old 07-07-2007, 11:08 AM   #1
Give me a museum and I'll fill it. (Picasso)
Give me a forum ...
mickeyd's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2004
Location: South Texas~29N/98W Just West of Woman Hollering Creek
Posts: 6,671
SS Redux

Of all the subject matter that comes up here, I dare say that this topic has been analyzed more than most. So, why bring it up again? Heck, I don't know. I just liked the way that this article was written, I guess.
Quote:
Now you can see why there is confusion with regard to Social Security. There are no hard and steadfast rules when dealing with Social Security. Each individual or couple should do an analysis of their current retirement situation and see what makes sense. Each person’s scenario will probably lead to a different answer but the analysis has to be thorough because Social Security can be a very big piece of the retirement puzzle. With the advance of modern medicine and increase in longevity for the average American delaying Social Security could be an optimal way to maximize your retirement benefits.
INVESTOR SOLUTIONS - THE STRATEGIC ADVANTAGE
__________________
Part-Owner of Texas

Outside of a dog, a book is man's best friend. Inside of a dog, it's too dark to read. Groucho Marx

In dire need of: faster horses, younger woman, older whiskey, more money.
mickeyd is offline   Reply With Quote
Join the #1 Early Retirement and Financial Independence Forum Today - It's Totally Free!

Are you planning to be financially independent as early as possible so you can live life on your own terms? Discuss successful investing strategies, asset allocation models, tax strategies and other related topics in our online forum community. Our members range from young folks just starting their journey to financial independence, military retirees and even multimillionaires. No matter where you fit in you'll find that Early-Retirement.org is a great community to join. Best of all it's totally FREE!

You are currently viewing our boards as a guest so you have limited access to our community. Please take the time to register and you will gain a lot of great new features including; the ability to participate in discussions, network with our members, see fewer ads, upload photographs, create a retirement blog, send private messages and so much, much more!

Old 07-07-2007, 11:25 AM   #2
Thinks s/he gets paid by the post
 
Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: Houston
Posts: 2,155
I love each and every article that tries to influence people to delay SS. I don't care what the reasons are!
Sam is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-07-2007, 12:55 PM   #3
Give me a museum and I'll fill it. (Picasso)
Give me a forum ...
cute fuzzy bunny's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2003
Location: Losing my whump
Posts: 22,708
I have a newly packaged investment product for sale.

Give me your money and I'll invest it for you. An an individual, you'll have approximately a 5-10% chance of making any money, but I wont pay you the profits until after you're 85. As a couple, your odds rise to about 25% but the profit payments wont start until you're 90.

I'll send you a statement once a year, but on the statement I'll print a warning that I might not pay you back at all, and even if I do, it may only be 70c on the dollar.

Also, be advised that I've cut payments in the past by changing some formulas for payout and may do so again. I may also decide that if you have a lot of money that you have to pay me a percentage back or that you may be just too rich to need the money.

Any takers?
__________________
Be fearful when others are greedy, and greedy when others are fearful. Just another form of "buy low, sell high" for those who have trouble with things. This rule is not universal. Do not buy a 1973 Pinto because everyone else is afraid of it.
cute fuzzy bunny is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-07-2007, 01:11 PM   #4
Give me a museum and I'll fill it. (Picasso)
Give me a forum ...
mickeyd's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2004
Location: South Texas~29N/98W Just West of Woman Hollering Creek
Posts: 6,671
Quote:
Any takers?
Of course not! But if you have the capacity to force us all to invest in your product, that would change all of the rules.
__________________
Part-Owner of Texas

Outside of a dog, a book is man's best friend. Inside of a dog, it's too dark to read. Groucho Marx

In dire need of: faster horses, younger woman, older whiskey, more money.
mickeyd is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-07-2007, 01:56 PM   #5
Give me a museum and I'll fill it. (Picasso)
Give me a forum ...
cute fuzzy bunny's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2003
Location: Losing my whump
Posts: 22,708
Well now, I do have an alternative.

I can offer you an investment that you have a 90% chance of making a profit on, I'll pay you right away, and odds are that you'll get back most or all of your principal and be able to enjoy the extra money while you're a lot younger than 90.

Plus, since this investment pays you dividends earlier, you can defer withdrawals on your other investments, allowing those to grow, perhaps tax deferred.

You'll be between 85 and 90 before you'd get a benefit of the previously mentioned investment vs this one. And you're most likely to be dead, in which case I'll keep all of the extra money.

Worst case downside is that you live past 90 and might have to forego a couple of bucks between then and your demise.

So what'll it be?
__________________
Be fearful when others are greedy, and greedy when others are fearful. Just another form of "buy low, sell high" for those who have trouble with things. This rule is not universal. Do not buy a 1973 Pinto because everyone else is afraid of it.
cute fuzzy bunny is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-07-2007, 03:58 PM   #6
Give me a museum and I'll fill it. (Picasso)
Give me a forum ...
TromboneAl's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2006
Posts: 12,880
I'll wait until I'm 61 years old, then I'll spend a full year reading all the "Delay SS?" threads on this forum.
__________________
Al
TromboneAl is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-07-2007, 04:00 PM   #7
Moderator Emeritus
Nords's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2002
Location: Oahu
Posts: 26,856
Quote:
Originally Posted by TromboneAl View Post
I'll wait until I'm 61 years old, then I'll spend a full year reading all the "Delay SS?" threads on this forum.
IIRC SS wants you to file three months before your birth month.

Only having nine months to analyze all the threads that'll accumulate here by your 62nd birthday will be cutting it pretty close!
__________________
*

Co-author (with my daughter) of “Raising Your Money-Savvy Family For Next Generation Financial Independence.”
Author of the book written on E-R.org: "The Military Guide to Financial Independence and Retirement."

I don't spend much time here— please send a PM.
Nords is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-07-2007, 04:07 PM   #8
Moderator Emeritus
W2R's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: New Orleans
Posts: 47,474
Quote:
Originally Posted by Nords View Post
IIRC SS wants you to file three months before your birth month.

Only having nine months to analyze all the threads that'll accumulate here by your 62nd birthday will be cutting it pretty close!
Gee, I'm 59 already so I'd better start! I am pretty sure that I know what I will do, but every now and then I am not so sure.
__________________
Already we are boldly launched upon the deep; but soon we shall be lost in its unshored, harbourless immensities. - - H. Melville, 1851.

Happily retired since 2009, at age 61. Best years of my life by far!
W2R is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-07-2007, 04:33 PM   #9
Thinks s/he gets paid by the post
martyb's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2006
Location: Bossier City
Posts: 2,183
I know what I'm doin' and I'm only 49. I'll be taking my $$ at 62, who knows if I'll see 63?
martyb is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-09-2007, 02:09 PM   #10
Give me a museum and I'll fill it. (Picasso)
Give me a forum ...
FinanceDude's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2006
Posts: 12,483
Quote:
Originally Posted by martyb View Post
I know what I'm doin' and I'm only 49. I'll be taking my $$ at 62, who knows if I'll see 63?


If you have enough to FIRE, why not take it at 62? You might be dead at 67, 70,or whatever magic number the SS folks dig up.

Waiting to get more money if you don't die (but knowing mortality says otherwise) is a pretty wild risk...........
__________________
Consult with your own advisor or representative. My thoughts should not be construed as investment advice. Past performance is no guarantee of future results (love that one).......:)


This Thread is USELESS without pics.........:)
FinanceDude is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-09-2007, 02:46 PM   #11
Give me a museum and I'll fill it. (Picasso)
Give me a forum ...
mickeyd's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2004
Location: South Texas~29N/98W Just West of Woman Hollering Creek
Posts: 6,671
Quote:
Waiting to get more money if you don't die (but knowing mortality says otherwise) is a pretty wild risk
I guess that I do not see it that way FD. Otherwise I would not try to spread out my retirement stash using 4%SWR or simular formula. I could spend 10% in year one and forget about risk and hope that I got 20% returns in the future.

It's a good thing that SS is flexible so we can all screw it up our own way.
__________________
Part-Owner of Texas

Outside of a dog, a book is man's best friend. Inside of a dog, it's too dark to read. Groucho Marx

In dire need of: faster horses, younger woman, older whiskey, more money.
mickeyd is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-09-2007, 03:18 PM   #12
Give me a museum and I'll fill it. (Picasso)
Give me a forum ...
FinanceDude's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2006
Posts: 12,483
Quote:
Originally Posted by mickeyd View Post
It's a good thing that SS is flexible so we can all screw it up our own way.


However, the SS folks might screw it up for us. I for one think those of us under 50 are going to get screwed one way or another.

My dad started taking SS at age 65. On his 73rd birthday, he thanked all of us kids by announcing: Congratulations, I have NOW started taking out MORE than I EVER paid in.........
__________________
Consult with your own advisor or representative. My thoughts should not be construed as investment advice. Past performance is no guarantee of future results (love that one).......:)


This Thread is USELESS without pics.........:)
FinanceDude is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-10-2007, 09:19 AM   #13
Thinks s/he gets paid by the post
teejayevans's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2006
Posts: 1,691
Quote:
Originally Posted by FinanceDude View Post


If you have enough to FIRE, why not take it at 62? You might be dead at 67, 70,or whatever magic number the SS folks dig up.

Waiting to get more money if you don't die (but knowing mortality says otherwise) is a pretty wild risk...........
I disagree...look at this way (assuming you don't need the money).
If you wait and die early, you don't care
If you wait and die late, you have more money and you stuck it to the Govt
The worst that can happen is you don't care!!
TJ
teejayevans is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-10-2007, 09:26 AM   #14
Give me a museum and I'll fill it. (Picasso)
Give me a forum ...
FinanceDude's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2006
Posts: 12,483
Quote:
Originally Posted by teejayevans View Post
I disagree...look at this way (assuming you don't need the money).
If you wait and die early, you don't care
If you wait and die late, you have more money and you stuck it to the Govt
The worst that can happen is you don't care!!
TJ
I look at SS as a pension, because that's what it is........

All things being equal, would you like your pension NOW or "maybe" later??
__________________
Consult with your own advisor or representative. My thoughts should not be construed as investment advice. Past performance is no guarantee of future results (love that one).......:)


This Thread is USELESS without pics.........:)
FinanceDude is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-10-2007, 11:38 AM   #15
Recycles dryer sheets
 
Join Date: Jun 2007
Posts: 374
The way to analyze "when to take social security" would be the same as analyzing any other investment - namely to compute the net present value of the discounted cash flows associated with taking it at "some age" until "you die". The tricky parts are knowing one specific input this equation, namely when you depart this mortal coil.

That of course assumes that there is no discontinuity due to failure of the program to meet its obligations. For those near their 60s now I don't worry about this, but personally I believe that anybody under 45 or so will find that Social Security and medicare will both be "means tested" by the time their alleged eligibility age arrives. And, as I say to my DW (and believe me anybody with a FIRE mindset on savings and investment should agree), "with any luck, we won't qualify".
FinanceGeek is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-10-2007, 12:59 PM   #16
Thinks s/he gets paid by the post
OAG's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: Central, Ohio, USA
Posts: 2,635
The both are already is "means tested". All that has to be done now is adjust the thresholds (lower or raise them) where the benefit is reduced or the premium increased. For an example crank SS to 100% vs 85% taxable and crank the Medicare premiums upwards.
__________________
Vietnam Veteran, CW4 USA, Retired 1979
OAG is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-10-2007, 01:02 PM   #17
Moderator Emeritus
Nords's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2002
Location: Oahu
Posts: 26,856
Quote:
Originally Posted by R Wood View Post
The both are already is "means tested". All that has to be done now is adjust the thresholds (lower or raise them) where the benefit is reduced or the premium increased. For an example crank SS to 100% vs 85% taxable and crank the Medicare premiums upwards.
Yup. Essentially Social Security will be a club whose membership you hope to avoid, or at least have the after-tax SS receipts pay for the Medicare premiums.

The earlier one ERs, the more zeroes in one's earnings record, the less meaningful this debate becomes.
__________________
*

Co-author (with my daughter) of “Raising Your Money-Savvy Family For Next Generation Financial Independence.”
Author of the book written on E-R.org: "The Military Guide to Financial Independence and Retirement."

I don't spend much time here— please send a PM.
Nords is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply


Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
 
Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Small Is Beautiful - Redux Danny Other topics 6 03-22-2006 09:03 AM
Bird Flu Redux Redux - Financial Only Craig FIRE and Money 7 01-08-2006 06:01 PM
Bird Flu Redux wabmester Other topics 86 10-22-2005 10:12 PM
Best Places to Live Redux Eagle43 Other topics 8 07-14-2005 09:35 AM
Cheap diapers redux cute fuzzy bunny Other topics 10 04-28-2005 09:07 AM

» Quick Links

 
All times are GMT -6. The time now is 03:02 AM.
 
Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.8 Beta 1
Copyright ©2000 - 2024, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.