Stanford or U of Wisc - Madison?

[Spanky]

It is true that Stanford is ground central to Silicon Valley so if your daughter thinks that being a Silicon Valley entrepreneur is her future then perhaps that is a valid argument for Stanford but I personally think that the economics are to one sided. Remember Marc Andreessen came from Illinois and he seems to have done OK in Silicon Valley.

Agreed - A lot of people that I know graduated from U of Minnesota are now working and doing fine at Silicon Valley.

 

[photoguy]

I was thinking about this some more, and the Stanford prestige over wisconsin can make a big difference depending on what she does in her career. I.e., if she ever leaves a technical track and goes into management / mba / something else, people will see and remember the Stanford name on her resume. She will automatically get the benefit of the doubt and assumed to be very bright and hard working.

On the other hand, if she stays purely technical (programming, AI researcher, etc.) then the school is less important than what you've accomplished and your personal skills. It's very easy for a technical interviewer to tell if you know your stuff.

 

[Spanky]

FYI, I live in Silicon Valley and we have a lot of people with funny accents from exotic places like India, China and Russia.

But if you really pay attention you will also realize that we also have a fair number of blonde-headed people with funny accents (I think they call it middle American) from exotic places like Minnesota and Wisconsin.

We have many people from those countries working as engineers and scientists for major medical device companies in Minnesota as well. In fact, most graduate students in engineering and science are from those regions.

 

[Spanky]

.. If she ever leaves a technical track and goes into management / mba / something else, people will see and remember the Stanford name on her resume. She will automatically get the benefit of the doubt and assumed to be very bright and hard working.

She has no desire to get into management for now, but that could change over time. A Stanford MBA is definitely looks good in one's resume. However, a graduate engineering degree from Stanford may suffice. For instance, my manager, a MS Stanford graduate, has moved up a couple of level in 2 years. Having said that, another manager has done the same with only a B.S. from South Dakota State U. Further, the head of our division holds only a BA in liberal arts from a small local liberal arts college. The moral of the story is skills over credential.

 

[steelyman]

She has no desire to get into management for now, but that could change over time. A Stanford MBA is definitely looks good in one's resume. However, a graduate engineering degree from Stanford may suffice. For instance, my manager, a MS Stanford graduate, has moved up a couple of level in 2 years. Having said that, another manager has done the same with only a B.S. from South Dakota State U. Further, the head of our division holds only a BA in liberal arts from a small local liberal arts college. The moral of the story is skills over credential.

Sounds to me like it is worth it to you to pay the $120K for the privilege of saying "my daughter went to Stanford". That is reasonable, if affordable.

 

[Spanky]

Sounds to me like it is worth it to you to pay the $120K for the privilege of saying "my daughter went to Stanford". That is reasonable, if affordable.

No, that's not what I am trying to convey. Bragging about any kind of success is not my cup of tea. We are grateful for what we have and accomplished without making constant reference to those of others. A prestigious degree is definitely an advantage but pales in comparison to skills that are necessary for success. I was hoping that the example " .. another manager moved up by a two levels from a state university .. the head of our division has only a BA from a small and non-prestigious local liberal arts college .." would convey my thoughts on this matter.

 

[Brat]

Not really knowing about Wisconson's program let's assume that the academics are comparable. The difference is the setting, I am not talking about the weather. Stanford is the center of venture capital, where the high tech action is. There is a culture of invention. Many companies that have high impact were created by Stanford students and graduates.

Not everyone wants that environment, it is very demanding of your time and intellect. The question to ask the student is how does she want to use her skills after graduation.

 

[youbet]

Even if the financial situation were reversed and Stanford would be free vs. paying full cost for Wisconsin, I don't understand how your daughter could consider giving up the opportunity to become part of the tradition and culture that is UW Madison! As a Stanford grad, she'd never be allowed to wear the coveted cheesehead hat nor date the Badger offensive line. Those privileges are exclusively for "Up Nort" girls!

 

[Spanky]

Even if the financial situation were reversed and Stanford would be free vs. paying full cost for Wisconsin, I don't understand how your daughter could consider giving up the opportunity to become part of the tradition and culture that is UW Madison! As a Stanford grad, she'd never be allowed to wear the coveted cheesehead hat nor date the Badger offensive line. Those privileges are exclusively for "Up Nort" girls!

Ha! HA! We have already been teasing her about being a cheese head and a badgers fan.

 

[Spanky]

Not everyone wants that environment, it is very demanding of your time and intellect. The question to ask the student is how does she want to use her skills after graduation.

Hi Brat,

That's true. She likes the idea working for Goggle someday. It's very competitive to get in, however. I have no doubts that she can get into any company or government agencies if she's determined.

Spanky

 

[Brat]

By the time she graduates there may be another big idea on the horizon, it might be hers.

It is amazing how ideas come to the surface. One of the stories about a company called PlaySpan is that the idea percolated from the founder's son's comment about games. PlaySpan Marketplace Many a software engineer makes more money from app residuals developed at home than their salaries.

 

[steelyman]

It will be interesting to learn which she chooses eventually, if you choose to post it. UW seems to me to be the logical choice for graduate school, but it wouldn't be smart to work for or in Wisconsin, given the current climate.

 

[clifp]

Hi Brat,

That's true. She likes the idea working for Goggle someday. It's very competitive to get in, however. I have no doubts that she can get into any company or government agencies if she's determined.

Spanky

One additional suggestion is to talk to the recruiting office at both Universities and see what companies have recruited there over the last three years. Most megacorps tend to have limited number of schools they recruit from, and stick to them over time. My guess is that most of the major tech firms recruit at both places, but some of the firms like Twitter may only go to Stanford.

 

[NW-Bound]

One of my brothers worked for Google. He said that they had so many applicants that it was difficult to choose; they all had 4.0 GPA from good schools, so they looked for achievements outside of just course work.

My brother came from a "lousy state U", but as you guess it, he had work experience. He came to Google not by applying but by invitation from people he worked with in another job. After a few years, he recently left on his own as he did not want to live in CA.

I am not a Comp Sci, but from what I know from the media and what my brother told me, Google is a fine place to work. It's not just the compensation, but the corporate culture is something I applaud. The competitiveness means it is however a place for young turks, and perhaps older people would survive only by getting into management.

Although my brother was proud of their motto "Don't be evil", I still gave him a hard time regarding the recent news about how Google was not beyond the game of "Dutch Sandwich" to pay several billions less in corporate taxes.

 

[clifp]

Although my brother was proud of their motto "Don't be evil", I still gave him a hard time regarding the recent news about how Google was not beyond the game of "Dutch Sandwich" to pay several billions less in corporate taxes.

Now come on tax avoidance is as American as Apple pie. Frankly it is area that American have much to learn from the Italian, Greeks, Turks etc.

 

[GregLee]

Stanford. It'll give her a little extra edge.

 

[Spanky]

One of my brothers worked for Google. He said that they had so many applicants that it was difficult to choose; they all had 4.0 GPA from good schools, so they looked for achievements outside of just course work.

My brother came from a "lousy state U", but as you guess it, he had work experience. He came to Google not by applying but by invitation from people he worked with in another job. After a few years, he recently left on his own as he did not want to live in CA.

Work experience in area of demand, such as cloud computing, will definitely be interested by Goggle.

I am not a Comp Sci, but from what I know from the media and what my brother told me, Google is a fine place to work. It's not just the compensation, but the corporate culture is something I applaud. The competitiveness means it is however a place for young turks, and perhaps older people would survive only by getting into management.

That's really an issue for older technical workers at Silicon Valley. They can either get into management or some other career or face the possibility of termination. Silicon Valley is for the young, energetic and entrepreneurial types.

 

[Spanky]

By the time she graduates there may be another big idea on the horizon, it might be hers.

It is amazing how ideas come to the surface. One of the stories about a company called PlaySpan is that the idea percolated from the founder's son's comment about games. PlaySpan Marketplace Many a software engineer makes more money from app residuals developed at home than their salaries.

Hi Brat,
She will definitely be interested in entrepreneurship should a worthwhile idea arise.

 

[NW-Bound]

Now come on tax avoidance is as American as Apple pie. Frankly it is area that American have much to learn from the Italian, Greeks, Turks etc.

But you see, my brother is an idealist liberal type who does not think there is such a thing as a bad tax. And I understand that the political climate of Google is also quite liberal itself. Hence, I could not pass up this chance to point out to him the irony.

And you know what else I did? I offered him an explanation that would get Google out of the inconsistency between what it said and how it walked.

I said that taxes had to be evil, hence Google had to evade it.

 

[Spanky]

One additional suggestion is to talk to the recruiting office at both Universities and see what companies have recruited there over the last three years. Most megacorps tend to have limited number of schools they recruit from, and stick to them over time. My guess is that most of the major tech firms recruit at both places, but some of the firms like Twitter may only go to Stanford.

Thanks for the suggestion. It's true that each company restricts recruitment to certain schools. The company for which I work recruits candidates from University of Minnesota, John Hopkins, Duke, Harvard, and Georgia Tech.

 

[Nords]

Hi Brat,
She will definitely be interested in entrepreneurship should a worthwhile idea arise.

She might want to look up the UW office of technology transfer and the local business incubators.

One of our UH startups was founded by a business student who was intrigued by a material science professor's patent. He obtained a license from UH's OTT (who owned the patent) then wrote a business plan. The professor started mixing samples in the lab and building things out of them. DARPA got interested. When the student won the business plan competition then the angels started sniffing around. Next step was a round of VC funding including a CEO with some gray hairs. Today this "business student" is the COO of the startup and well on his way to his own career, let alone a résumé.

And he still surfs. Without having to wear a wetsuit.

 

[Brat]

Work experience in area of demand, such as cloud computing, will definitely be interested by Goggle.

If cloud's her thing she should arrange an informational interview with 3Par the next time she is in SV.

 

[JPKlesmith]

UW vs Stanford

DD has been accepted to Stanford and U of Wisconsin (Madison) for graduate study in computer science. UW - Madison (ranked #10 - US News) offers fellowship (worth about $18K per year) + tuition remission while Stanford (ranked #1 - US News) offers NOTHING. The tuition at Stanford is $42,000 per year (almost the same as their Medical School). A master in CS would take about 2 years. That means it would cost about $120,000 to attend Stanford [ ($42K + 18K) *2].

Would you choose Stanford over UW-Madison for the prestige?


BTW - Tuition @Stanford for MBA is $52K -- cash cow for the university.

No question in my mind (also being a UW grad, with 25 years in IT Management) -- Go to Wisconsin!! As a manager, I didn't care what school the person came from -- it was more of a "do they have the skills for the job" and "Will they fit into the work environment??"

I suppose Stanford might be OK if you are thinking Silicon Valley, but if you are thinking the rest of the country, Stanford has no advantage over UW. And UW has a reputation for having some of the finest instructors in the area you are looking at.

Hope that helps!!

John

 

[Spanky]

She might want to look up the UW office of technology transfer and the local business incubators.

Good idea.

One of our UH startups was founded by a business student who was intrigued by a material science professor's patent. He obtained a license from UH's OTT (who owned the patent) then wrote a business plan. The professor started mixing samples in the lab and building things out of them. DARPA got interested. When the student won the business plan competition then the angels started sniffing around. Next step was a round of VC funding including a CEO with some gray hairs. Today this "business student" is the COO of the startup and well on his way to his own career, let alone a résumé.
And he still surfs. Without having to wear a wetsuit.

Good for him. Success story such as this is very encouraging.

 

[Spanky]

If cloud's her thing she should arrange an informational interview with 3Par the next time she is in SV.

That's a good idea since we visit my mom, brothers and sister in the Bay Area every year during the Xmas holidays.