Join Early Retirement Today
Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
Stop Saving So Much for Retirement
Old 03-01-2011, 07:55 AM   #1
Thinks s/he gets paid by the post
Jay_Gatsby's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2004
Posts: 1,719
Stop Saving So Much for Retirement

stop-saving-so-much-for-retirement: Personal Finance News from Yahoo! Finance

At least the article points out the key fallacy in this "strategy"

You can't control the return on your retirement stash, and you can't necessarily control when you get to call it quits. Fahlund's strategy is psychologically astute, in that it blends the security of working longer with the pleasures of enjoying life while you're still young enough to enjoy it. But in the end, Fahlund's plan depends on two things that are outside your control: Market returns and the length of your career. To stop saving in the hope that you won't need to draw on your nest egg until you're in your eighth decade is a gamble.
__________________
He had one of those rare smiles with a quality of eternal reassurance in it . . . It faced, or seemed to face, the whole external world for an instant and then concentrated on you with an irresistible prejudice in your favor. -- The Great Gatsby, F. Scott Fitzgerald
Jay_Gatsby is offline   Reply With Quote
Join the #1 Early Retirement and Financial Independence Forum Today - It's Totally Free!

Are you planning to be financially independent as early as possible so you can live life on your own terms? Discuss successful investing strategies, asset allocation models, tax strategies and other related topics in our online forum community. Our members range from young folks just starting their journey to financial independence, military retirees and even multimillionaires. No matter where you fit in you'll find that Early-Retirement.org is a great community to join. Best of all it's totally FREE!

You are currently viewing our boards as a guest so you have limited access to our community. Please take the time to register and you will gain a lot of great new features including; the ability to participate in discussions, network with our members, see fewer ads, upload photographs, create a retirement blog, send private messages and so much, much more!

Old 03-01-2011, 07:59 AM   #2
Thinks s/he gets paid by the post
73ss454's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2004
Location: LaLa Land
Posts: 4,698
I just read that article on Yahoo and I think was should all rush back to work. NOT!
73ss454 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-01-2011, 08:48 AM   #3
Give me a museum and I'll fill it. (Picasso)
Give me a forum ...
ziggy29's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2005
Location: North Oregon Coast
Posts: 16,483
Want me to stop saving so much for retirement? Give me a secure COLA'd DB pension, for starters. Then we'll talk about spending more today.

And frankly, cruises and other indulgences aren't sufficient to convince me to put up with working for another 5-10 years. If I die before I can enjoy most of my nest egg, so be it. Plenty of charities I support will be glad to have the money. And I'll be dead so I won't care.
__________________
"Hey, for every ten dollars, that's another hour that I have to be in the work place. That's an hour of my life. And my life is a very finite thing. I have only 'x' number of hours left before I'm dead. So how do I want to use these hours of my life? Do I want to use them just spending it on more crap and more stuff, or do I want to start getting a handle on it and using my life more intelligently?" -- Joe Dominguez (1938 - 1997)
ziggy29 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-01-2011, 08:54 AM   #4
gone traveling
 
Join Date: Jan 2011
Posts: 49
This article is just another of the many scripted post-crash to the effect that the "new way" to "retire early" is to keep working when you would otherwise be retired. Translation: The "new way" to retire early is not to retire early. Redefinition is presented as insight. Gimme a break.
Loop Lawyer is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-01-2011, 08:57 AM   #5
Give me a museum and I'll fill it. (Picasso)
Give me a forum ...
ziggy29's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2005
Location: North Oregon Coast
Posts: 16,483
Quote:
Originally Posted by Loop Lawyer View Post
This article is just another of the many scripted post-crash to the effect that the "new way" to "retire early" is to keep working when you would otherwise be retired. Translation: The "new way" to retire early is not to retire early. Redefinition is presented as insight. Gimme a break.
The economy may *force* this on many people who thought they had clear sailing a dozen years ago. But that doesn't mean I'm going to go down without a fight and just accept it.

Personally I believe the ultimate "redefinition" of retirement will be a three-tiered approach where one enters a period of semi-retirement or part time work in their 50s, and then hangs it up completely at 65 or 70. However, this can't happen until the link between health insurance and full-time employment is severed. This would be a feasible "winding down" of w*rk for a lot of people otherwise, even today.
__________________
"Hey, for every ten dollars, that's another hour that I have to be in the work place. That's an hour of my life. And my life is a very finite thing. I have only 'x' number of hours left before I'm dead. So how do I want to use these hours of my life? Do I want to use them just spending it on more crap and more stuff, or do I want to start getting a handle on it and using my life more intelligently?" -- Joe Dominguez (1938 - 1997)
ziggy29 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-01-2011, 08:58 AM   #6
Thinks s/he gets paid by the post
Onward's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2009
Posts: 1,934
For someone who's j*b is tolerable or even enjoyable, the article has some merit. For the rest of us ... nah.
__________________
And if I claim to be a wise man, it surely means that I don't know.
Onward is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-01-2011, 09:03 AM   #7
Give me a museum and I'll fill it. (Picasso)
Give me a forum ...
ziggy29's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2005
Location: North Oregon Coast
Posts: 16,483
Quote:
Originally Posted by Onward View Post
For someone who's j*b is tolerable or even enjoyable, the article has some merit. For the rest of us ... nah.
Then again, if my j*b was enjoyable, my obsession with early retirement wouldn't be there.

There are few people in life I envy more than those who truly love their work and can't imagine not doing it (assuming they don't lose their job). I envy them more than people with large COLA'd pensions, even.
__________________
"Hey, for every ten dollars, that's another hour that I have to be in the work place. That's an hour of my life. And my life is a very finite thing. I have only 'x' number of hours left before I'm dead. So how do I want to use these hours of my life? Do I want to use them just spending it on more crap and more stuff, or do I want to start getting a handle on it and using my life more intelligently?" -- Joe Dominguez (1938 - 1997)
ziggy29 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-01-2011, 09:05 AM   #8
Give me a museum and I'll fill it. (Picasso)
Give me a forum ...
Sarah in SC's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2005
Location: Charleston, SC
Posts: 13,566
Zig, don't envy them too much...it is often the case that they just don't have any other interests or never bothered to create ties outside of work.
__________________
“One day your life will flash before your eyes. Make sure it's worth watching.”
Gerard Arthur Way

Sarah in SC is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-01-2011, 09:07 AM   #9
Give me a museum and I'll fill it. (Picasso)
Give me a forum ...
ziggy29's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2005
Location: North Oregon Coast
Posts: 16,483
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sarah in SC View Post
Zig, don't envy them too much...it is often the case that they just don't have any other interests or never bothered to create ties outside of work.
But the point is, they don't know any better. And it makes them happy. Now the problem would come if they developed other interests outside of w*rk and decided late in their career that they wanted to do something else... and couldn't pursue it because they never bothered saving for retirement because they thought they wanted to w*rk forever.

But I do know people who have a true passion for what they do, *and* they earn a paycheck and benefits for doing it. They are scarcer than hen's teeth, but they do exist. And what an enviable position to be in if you can keep the j*b for as long as you want it.
__________________
"Hey, for every ten dollars, that's another hour that I have to be in the work place. That's an hour of my life. And my life is a very finite thing. I have only 'x' number of hours left before I'm dead. So how do I want to use these hours of my life? Do I want to use them just spending it on more crap and more stuff, or do I want to start getting a handle on it and using my life more intelligently?" -- Joe Dominguez (1938 - 1997)
ziggy29 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-01-2011, 09:23 AM   #10
Thinks s/he gets paid by the post
nun's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2006
Posts: 4,872
Quote:
Originally Posted by Loop Lawyer View Post
This article is just another of the many scripted post-crash to the effect that the "new way" to "retire early" is to keep working when you would otherwise be retired. Translation: The "new way" to retire early is not to retire early. Redefinition is presented as insight. Gimme a break.
The financial director of T Rowe Price came up with this strategy....which just confirms my total contempt for "financial professionals". The advice is to spend, don't save and work longer which is 180 degs from my strategy, be frugal, save 50% of income and retire early.
nun is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-01-2011, 09:30 AM   #11
Full time employment: Posting here.
Focus's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2009
Posts: 640
Quote:
Originally Posted by Loop Lawyer View Post
This article is just another of the many scripted post-crash to the effect that the "new way" to "retire early" is to keep working when you would otherwise be retired. Translation: The "new way" to retire early is not to retire early. Redefinition is presented as insight. Gimme a break.
I'm as tired of those articles as you are, but I don't think you're giving this one enough credit. It ultimately presents a pretty balanced viewpoint:

Quote:
Only problem is, who wants to work until 70? It sounds like the definition of retirement planning failure, not success. ... What's the takeaway? There's no way around the fact that the best retirement strategy is a balance between three sound but contradictory pieces of advice. Work as long as you can. Save like you'll be on your own tomorrow. Live each day like it could be your last.
Focus is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-01-2011, 09:32 AM   #12
Give me a museum and I'll fill it. (Picasso)
Give me a forum ...
ziggy29's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2005
Location: North Oregon Coast
Posts: 16,483
Quote:
Originally Posted by nun View Post
The financial director of T Rowe Price wrote this....which just confirms my total contempt for "financial professionals". The advice is to spend, don't save and work longer which is 180 degs from my strategy, be frugal, save 50% of income and retire early.
And frankly, I think many of the corporate powers that be are empowered by high unemployment. The fewer financially independent people, the more people there are who need j*bs, and the more who need jobs (more supply of labor) relative to the demand for labor, the lower they can set the compensation bar.

The ability to retire is at odds with their desire to keep as many of us dependent on them as possible.
__________________
"Hey, for every ten dollars, that's another hour that I have to be in the work place. That's an hour of my life. And my life is a very finite thing. I have only 'x' number of hours left before I'm dead. So how do I want to use these hours of my life? Do I want to use them just spending it on more crap and more stuff, or do I want to start getting a handle on it and using my life more intelligently?" -- Joe Dominguez (1938 - 1997)
ziggy29 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-01-2011, 09:35 AM   #13
Thinks s/he gets paid by the post
nun's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2006
Posts: 4,872
Quote:
Originally Posted by ziggy29 View Post
And frankly, I think many of the corporate powers that be are empowered by high unemployment. The fewer financially independent people, the more people there are who need j*bs, and the more who need jobs (more supply of labor) relative to the demand for labor, the lower they can set the compensation bar.

The ability to retire is at odds with their desire to keep as many of us dependent on them as possible.
Agreed and if they can encourage spending too all the better for them. However, the T. Rowe Price director might be shooting herself in the foot by discouraging retirement saving when her company gets fees from such saving.
nun is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-01-2011, 09:39 AM   #14
Thinks s/he gets paid by the post
MasterBlaster's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2005
Posts: 4,391
OK - I get all the posts... For you, you wouldn't ever consider working longer.

On this forum, once the current lifestyle budget is covered it's time to quit working. That's the only thinking that gets posted on this forum. Other thinking is politically incorrect here.

However the article brings up a very valid point. And that point is... What is the opportunity cost if I retire a year/ or ten years early ? What (exactly) am I to forgo, in terms of lifestyle, should I check out early.

Is it worth it to keep working ? Evidently not.. Ever based on the responses so far. But I would say that this is a choice for each of us to make. There is no correct answer here.

It sure doesn't hurt to look at the world from a different point of view.
MasterBlaster is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-01-2011, 09:44 AM   #15
Give me a museum and I'll fill it. (Picasso)
Give me a forum ...
ziggy29's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2005
Location: North Oregon Coast
Posts: 16,483
Quote:
Originally Posted by MasterBlaster View Post
On this forum, once the current lifestyle budget is covered it's time to quit working. That's the only thinking that gets posted on this forum. Other thinking is politically incorrect here.
Given that this is the "Early Retirement Forum," it seems logical to suspect that would be the default attitude, is it not? Not many people who love their jobs or are willing to keep them until full retirement age and beyond are going to be on an "Early Retirement Forum."

So you can waggle your finger at the "closed-mindedness" you seem to perceive here all you want, but remember that this is a very self-selecting sample of people who want as little to do with w*rking as possible. Expecting a different attitude might be unreasonable, IMO.
__________________
"Hey, for every ten dollars, that's another hour that I have to be in the work place. That's an hour of my life. And my life is a very finite thing. I have only 'x' number of hours left before I'm dead. So how do I want to use these hours of my life? Do I want to use them just spending it on more crap and more stuff, or do I want to start getting a handle on it and using my life more intelligently?" -- Joe Dominguez (1938 - 1997)
ziggy29 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-01-2011, 09:44 AM   #16
Thinks s/he gets paid by the post
nun's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2006
Posts: 4,872
Quote:
Originally Posted by MasterBlaster View Post
It sure doesn't hurt to look at the world from a different point of view.
Definitely.....but I think most people on here have thought about the financial and psychological consequences of ER and come to the conclusion that the scales are tipped towards ER rather than working to amass money they don't need to live comfortably. After all isn't that what FIREcalc is all about.
nun is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-01-2011, 09:53 AM   #17
Thinks s/he gets paid by the post
Jay_Gatsby's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2004
Posts: 1,719
Quote:
Originally Posted by ziggy29 View Post
Given that this is the "Early Retirement Forum," it seems logical to suspect that would be the default attitude, is it not? Not many people who love their jobs or are willing to keep them until full retirement age and beyond are going to be on an "Early Retirement Forum."

So you can waggle your finger at the "closed-mindedness" you seem to perceive here all you want, but remember that this is a very self-selecting sample of people who want as little to do with w*rking as possible. Expecting a different attitude might be unreasonable, IMO.
This depends on what you call "w*rking." As others have posted, w*rk is something you do that you wouldn't otherwise do if you weren't being paid for it (syn. "j*b") Many folks here have FIRE'd, only to find something else to do with their time - with the key distinction being something they chose to do. This choice also includes the ability to stop doing it, with minimal, if any, financial repercussions.
__________________
He had one of those rare smiles with a quality of eternal reassurance in it . . . It faced, or seemed to face, the whole external world for an instant and then concentrated on you with an irresistible prejudice in your favor. -- The Great Gatsby, F. Scott Fitzgerald
Jay_Gatsby is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-01-2011, 09:53 AM   #18
Thinks s/he gets paid by the post
Onward's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2009
Posts: 1,934
Quote:
Originally Posted by ziggy29 View Post
But I do know people who have a true passion for what they do, *and* they earn a paycheck and benefits for doing it.
I don't think I've ever met any of them, but a few must be out there. I envy them more than I do any retiree.
__________________
And if I claim to be a wise man, it surely means that I don't know.
Onward is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-01-2011, 09:56 AM   #19
Thinks s/he gets paid by the post
Jay_Gatsby's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2004
Posts: 1,719
Quote:
Originally Posted by Onward View Post
I don't think I've ever met any of them, but a few must be out there. I envy them more than I do any retiree.
I'd say my wife is one of those. She can't stand the corporate BS of her financial planning/advisory employer, but she loves helping people with their finances. When we both tire of the rat race, she will likely become an independent financial advisor working on a fee-based model for a select group of clients. I could make the same choice as a lawyer - hang out my own shingle or do some part-time legal work for a few clients. The key for both of us is to reach the FI level so we can choose to work as much or as little as we want at our chosen professions.
__________________
He had one of those rare smiles with a quality of eternal reassurance in it . . . It faced, or seemed to face, the whole external world for an instant and then concentrated on you with an irresistible prejudice in your favor. -- The Great Gatsby, F. Scott Fitzgerald
Jay_Gatsby is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-01-2011, 09:59 AM   #20
Give me a museum and I'll fill it. (Picasso)
Give me a forum ...
ziggy29's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2005
Location: North Oregon Coast
Posts: 16,483
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jay_Gatsby View Post
I'd say my wife is one of those. She can't stand the corporate BS of her financial planning/advisory employer, but she loves helping people with their finances. When we both tire of the rat race, she will likely become an independent financial advisor working on a fee-based model for a select group of clients.
This is actually not all that uncommon. Many times people enter a field because they are interested in the work itself. But as most of us find out, even if we liked the work itself, the corporate BS -- the bureaucracy, the office politics, the contrived deadlines and urgency of everything, the wage-slave mentality -- becomes intolerable.

In fact I'd wager that many (if not most) people who desperately want out of their j*bs are looking more to escape the corporate BS that accompanies the work than are escaping the actual work itself.
__________________
"Hey, for every ten dollars, that's another hour that I have to be in the work place. That's an hour of my life. And my life is a very finite thing. I have only 'x' number of hours left before I'm dead. So how do I want to use these hours of my life? Do I want to use them just spending it on more crap and more stuff, or do I want to start getting a handle on it and using my life more intelligently?" -- Joe Dominguez (1938 - 1997)
ziggy29 is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply


Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
 
Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Stop Dreaming, Early Retirement Is Over yakers Young Dreamers 45 06-08-2007 07:45 PM
are you saving too much for retirement? SingleMomDreamer Young Dreamers 14 03-13-2007 09:47 AM
Many ARE saving enough for retirement REWahoo FIRE and Money 49 09-09-2006 11:03 AM
Help me stop my constant worrying about retirement! daxm Young Dreamers 71 08-23-2005 02:22 PM
Retirement Turns Into a Rest Stop sgeeeee Life after FIRE 68 02-15-2005 10:15 AM

» Quick Links

 
All times are GMT -6. The time now is 12:52 PM.
 
Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.8 Beta 1
Copyright ©2000 - 2024, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.