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Old 08-14-2020, 12:59 PM   #21
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To a guy with 5 grand NW a guy with half a mill is wealthy.

When you have 5 mill it takes half a billion.
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Old 08-14-2020, 01:00 PM   #22
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From my POV, "as a retiree", I consider 2m as cautiously comfortable.. 10+m as reasonably well off, 25+m as borderline wealthy and 50m as FU money. But that's me...
At the lower level of the numbers you mention, doesn't current income and it's probability of continuing play a significant role? For example, one athlete retires with 2 million bux and little income potential to live on the rest of his life. Another, after his rookie year, has 2 million bux and also a guaranteed contract paying 25 million annually for the next 3 years. Big difference.

Just saying, I think that potential future earnings are seldom mentioned in these surveys or discussions but likely often play a big role.
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Old 08-14-2020, 01:02 PM   #23
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Because it's theirs, not mine.
It looked to me like Schwab administered a survey and published the results. Isn't that the case?
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Old 08-14-2020, 01:07 PM   #24
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It looked to me like Schwab administered a survey and published the results. Isn't that the case?
I seriously doubt that Charles Schwab does much anything himself. Either the employees or contractors do the work...

It does say "according to Charles Schwab’s 2020 Modern Wealth survey"... Close enough for me!
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Old 08-14-2020, 01:09 PM   #25
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At the lower level of the numbers you mention, doesn't current income and it's probability of continuing play a significant role? For example, one athlete retires with 2 million bux and little income potential to live on the rest of his life. Another, after his rookie year, has 2 million bux and also a guaranteed contract paying 25 million annually for the next 3 years. Big difference.

Just saying, I think that potential future earnings are seldom mentioned in these surveys or discussions but likely often play a big role.
Agree, there are endless variables.
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Old 08-14-2020, 01:11 PM   #26
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To a guy with 5 grand NW a guy with half a mill is wealthy.

When you have 5 mill it takes half a billion.

I know at least one guy with 5m that thinks it just takes 25m to be wealthy... But I get your point
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Old 08-14-2020, 01:14 PM   #27
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Top 2%->10% numbers look shockingly low.
Something is going on here....
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Old 08-14-2020, 01:16 PM   #28
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At the lower level of the numbers you mention, doesn't current income and it's probability of continuing play a significant role? For example, one athlete retires with 2 million bux and little income potential to live on the rest of his life. Another, after his rookie year, has 2 million bux and also a guaranteed contract paying 25 million annually for the next 3 years. Big difference.

Just saying, I think that potential future earnings are seldom mentioned in these surveys or discussions but likely often play a big role.
I agree. I also agree with Car Guy the numbers look off. Too low. The concentration of wealth in the top 0.01% - 10% is greater. The table is totally out is sync with the often published report that half the people in the US don’t have $1k in savings for an emergency expense.
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Old 08-14-2020, 01:19 PM   #29
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I look at these numbers and see the yearly income at a 4% withdrawal rate. Even the top 5% median person with a million bucks is only generating $40k a year. That is far from rich living.
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Old 08-14-2020, 01:34 PM   #30
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Originally Posted by Car-Guy View Post
From my POV, "as a retiree", I consider 2m as cautiously comfortable.. 10+m as reasonably well off, 25+m as borderline wealthy and 50m as FU money. But that's me...
I tend to agree with something along these lines. I might get to FU money at $30m or so but nonetheless agree.

I would add it also depends on where a person is comfortable living (HCL or LCL) and their lifestyle. I know people with $500k that feel RICH and people with $10m that feel they need to be very careful. How one spends money, and the amazing speed with which it can be spent, is truly amazing.
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Old 08-14-2020, 01:45 PM   #31
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Those %’s make me feel rich, but we’re so middle class. I never considered us in that category. How sad for 50% of our population who want to RE. It’d be interesting to know ages that go with the data.


There is another calculator for net worth percentile but age on the site.

https://www.thekickassentrepreneur.c...lator-for-usa/
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Old 08-14-2020, 01:56 PM   #32
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This "relative wealth" thread reminds me of a legend in the gambling world. I'm sure many have heard this but, as a gambler, it puts wealth into real world perspective for me... There is always someone a lot richer, so at some point, does it really matter?

"Perhaps the best Kerry Packer story involves him playing poker against a Texas oil tycoon at the Stratosphere casino in Vegas. During a heated argument, the tycoon yelled, “I'm worth 60 million!” Packer replied by pulling a coin out of his pocket and simply asked, “heads or tails?”"

Kerry Packer, an Australian, was a well known high stakes gambler and multi-billionaire. The story goes on that the Texan tycoon backed off and was never seen again.
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Old 08-14-2020, 01:58 PM   #33
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I look at these numbers and see the yearly income at a 4% withdrawal rate. Even the top 5% median person with a million bucks is only generating $40k a year. That is far from rich living.
I think it all gets down to spending. I think back to when we bought our house, on which basic payments haven't changed much, and my salary back then. Somehow we could afford the house, taxes, clothing, cars, and our household income continued to rise while saving for FIRE.

Despite our household income growth, when I ask myself what could we live on, I go back to something closer to that original salary from years ago. I am frankly surprised at the numbers folks describe as their monthly expenses, with some describing thousands spent on eating out and entertainment each month. That said, many of these people are living in high cost areas and just have different lifestyles than us. We have most of our meals at home, and I still bring a bag lunch to work everyday. While I don't think we could survive on $40K/year, if the house were completely paid off we might be able to.
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Old 08-14-2020, 02:20 PM   #34
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Comfortable VS Wealthy.... In Schwab's opinion...

https://www.usatoday.com/story/money...re/5521307002/

"They now believe that, on average, it takes $655,000 to be financially comfortable, down from $934,000 in January, according to Charles Schwab’s 2020 Modern Wealth survey. And they think the minimum benchmark to be considered wealthy is $2 million, down from $2.6 million in January. The survey of 1,000 Americans was conducted for Schwab by Logica Research June 25-July 2."
So, according to Schwab, what is the significance of being "financially comfortable" vs. "wealthy"? What is the practical effect of that? Certainly, having $2MM+ would offer significantly more financial comfort/reassurance, but what are they saying it's supposed to indicate other than that?
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Old 08-14-2020, 02:25 PM   #35
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Top 2%->10% numbers look shockingly low.
Something is going on here....
Not sure what this means. What do you think the top 2% (or top 10%) net worth threshold should be? What do you think is "going on here"? Sounds like you believe it should take much more NW to get into the upper tiers of wealth. If so, what are you basing that on?
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Old 08-14-2020, 02:33 PM   #36
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so 500K is the median, what is the mean?
Probably skewed much higher, based on past historical reporting of these types of numbers.
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Old 08-14-2020, 02:37 PM   #37
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So, according to Schwab, what is the significance of being "financially comfortable" vs. "wealthy"? What is the practical effect of that? Certainly, having $2MM+ would offer significantly more financial comfort/reassurance, but what are they saying it's supposed to indicate other than that?
You would need to ask them....It's their opinion/article. Your guess (or assessment/interpretation) is as good as mine.
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Old 08-14-2020, 02:41 PM   #38
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From my POV, "as a retiree", I consider 2m as cautiously comfortable.. 10+m as reasonably well off, 25+m as borderline wealthy and 50m as FU money. But that's me...
+1
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Old 08-14-2020, 03:23 PM   #39
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I seriously doubt that Charles Schwab does much anything himself. Either the employees or contractors do the work...

It does say "according to Charles Schwab’s 2020 Modern Wealth survey"... Close enough for me!
The point is that Schwab periodically funds a survey designed to measure what levels of wealth Americans deem "comfortable," "wealthy," etc. The results of this survey indicated that there has been a significant drop in wealth level perceived by Americans as required to reach each stage. Schwab, and apparently USA Today who put the article you quoted together, feel that the impact of the COVID-19 economic meltdown is a big factor influencing people and driving the change.


Quote:
The survey of 1,000 Americans was conducted for Schwab by Logica Research June 25-July 2.

Overall, 57% ofAmericans have been financially impacted by the pandemic, including 68% of millennials, the survey found. Thirty percent – and 41% of millennials – suffered a cut in salary or hours. A quarter said they or a close family member were furloughed or laid off.

A quarter of those surveyed say they’re very confident in reaching their financial goals, down from a third in January.

► 52.5% say they’re financially stressed, up from 45.9% before the crisis.

► 39% say relationships are most important to their overall happiness, followed by health (27%) and money (17%). Pre-crisis, relationships led at 36%, followed by health (30%) and money (16%).
What Schwab's (the survey funder) opinion is means little to me. The knockout fact is how much current economic conditions have impacted the thinking of Americans reguarding wealth plateaus, investing, financial security, etc. These are all things that will impact the future direction of our country.
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Old 08-14-2020, 03:39 PM   #40
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The point is that Schwab periodically funds a survey designed to measure what levels of wealth Americans deem "comfortable," "wealthy," etc. The results of this survey indicated that there has been a significant drop in wealth level perceived by Americans as required to reach each stage. Schwab, and apparently USA Today who put the article you quoted together, feel that the impact of the COVID-19 economic meltdown is a big factor influencing people and driving the change.
That's about what I got out of it too!
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