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Old 08-14-2020, 03:45 PM   #41
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Those net worth numbers are not taking into consideration the age of those persons. Break it down by age and look again before you think you feel good about your own personal numbers;
https://www.bankrate.com/personal-fi...-worth-by-age/
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Old 08-14-2020, 03:48 PM   #42
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Those net worth numbers are not taking into consideration the age of those persons. Break it down by age and look again before you think you feel good about your own personal numbers;
https://www.bankrate.com/personal-fi...-worth-by-age/

This. Many of us are probably 2-percenters now, but I bet very few of us were in top half before our late 30s or thereabouts.
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Old 08-14-2020, 03:50 PM   #43
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I agree. I also agree with Car Guy the numbers look off. Too low. The concentration of wealth in the top 0.01% - 10% is greater. The table is totally out is sync with the often published report that half the people in the US don’t have $1k in savings for an emergency expense.

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I agree. I also agree with Car Guy the numbers look off. Too low. The concentration of wealth in the top 0.01% - 10% is greater. The table is totally out is sync with the often published report that half the people in the US don’t have $1k in savings for an emergency expense.

That was exactly what I was thinking Michael. Im mean what is the odds of 60% of people having $500,000 equity in a house and not having enough cash to pay for a $500 bill without slapping it on a credit card.

Nearly six in 10 Americans don't have enough savings to cover a $500 or $1,000 unplanned expense, according to a new report from Bankrate.
Only 41% of adults reported having enough in their savings account to cover a surprise bill of this magnitude. A little more than 20% said they would put it on a credit card, the report said, while 20% would cut their spending and 11% would turn to friends and family for financial assistance.

https://money.cnn.com/2017/01/12/pf/...ngs/index.html
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Summary Findings – Net Worth Comparison USA
Old 08-14-2020, 03:54 PM   #44
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Summary Findings – Net Worth Comparison USA

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I look at these numbers and see the yearly income at a 4% withdrawal rate. Even the top 5% median person with a million bucks is only generating $40k a year. That is far from rich living.


It may not be rich living Gumby but it’s certainly independent living, something the overwhelming majority of the world’s population will never be able to do so $40K counts for a lot in this scenario. I find that I often have to re-ground myself when it comes to feeling like I have enough. I am certainly in the top 2% but in my head I am still poor. It’s always a matter of perspective, your expectations and with whom you compare your financial situation. Clearly, if one decides to retire on $40K, there are places in the US where they can do so comfortably and most certainly in just about everywhere in the world. $40K/year for the rest of your life without having to answer to anyone and living life on your own terms is a big deal no matter how you slice it. With that said, I am retired and live on a lot more.
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Old 08-14-2020, 04:20 PM   #45
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It may not be rich living Gumby but it’s certainly independent living, something the overwhelming majority of the world’s population will never be able to do so $40K counts for a lot in this scenario. I find that I often have to re-ground myself when it comes to feeling like I have enough. I am certainly in the top 2% but in my head I am still poor. It’s always a matter of perspective, your expectations and with whom you compare your financial situation. Clearly, if one decides to retire on $40K, there are places in the US where they can do so comfortably and most certainly in just about everywhere in the world. $40K/year for the rest of your life without having to answer to anyone and living life on your own terms is a big deal no matter how you slice it. With that said, I am retired and live on a lot more.
Plus if there are 2 decent SS numbers coming in plus the 40k, it can be quite comfortable.
Feel poor at 2m+
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Old 08-14-2020, 04:44 PM   #46
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Not sure what this means. What do you think the top 2% (or top 10%) net worth threshold should be? What do you think is "going on here"? Sounds like you believe it should take much more NW to get into the upper tiers of wealth. If so, what are you basing that on?
As someone has pointed out earlier, 1mil NW (top 5%) will generate 40K/year (4% WR) or 30K/year (current thinking of 3% WR), then that is hardly a comfortable place to be financially to FIRE in most places in the US. I do expect the NW to be much higher especially for the top 2% even if the 2.4mil is quoting the lower bound. I am questioning the data source and not the OP.
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Old 08-14-2020, 05:36 PM   #47
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As someone has pointed out earlier, 1mil NW (top 5%) will generate 40K/year (4% WR) or 30K/year (current thinking of 3% WR), then that is hardly a comfortable place to be financially to FIRE in most places in the US. I do expect the NW to be much higher especially for the top 2% even if the 2.4mil is quoting the lower bound. I am questioning the data source and not the OP.
The net worth doesn't include the income side with pensions and Social Security, so perhaps it is a reasonable number at 2.4m.
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Old 08-14-2020, 06:29 PM   #48
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Originally Posted by ShokWaveRider View Post
"Net Worth USA Percentiles – Top 1%, 5%, 10%, and 50% in Net Worth"

I include our home in our net worth.
as do we...what we own minus what we owe (which is nada). we also include the value of our vehicles but i do adjust their value down each year. i do not include value of our pensions.
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Old 08-14-2020, 06:35 PM   #49
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This seems a considerable underestimate of household net worth.

The Fed released 2016 data which showed the 90th percentile at almost 1 million (952000), but as I recall from past breakdown of the top 10%, median networth in the top 10% goes up steeply from that point.
Sorry, I can't find the top 10% breakdown tables anymore.


https://www.census.gov/library/publi...p70br-166.html


However, I think this source is using those original tables (a guess) and here goes, for 2016/17:


Net Worth Percentile2016 Dollar Cutoff
90.0%$1,182,390
95.0%$2,377,985.22
99.0%$10,374,030.10
99.5%$16,115,373.00
99.9%$43,090,281.00



https://dqydj.com/net-worth-brackets...s-one-percent/


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Old 08-14-2020, 06:35 PM   #50
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The net worth doesn't include the income side with pensions and Social Security, so perhaps it is a reasonable number at 2.4m.
agree. and it all depends on lifestyle post retirement. we are living quite well on SS and pensions with a positive cash flow each month and have barely touched our investments and then only for special purchases.
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Old 08-14-2020, 08:44 PM   #51
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This seems a considerable underestimate of household net worth.

The Fed released 2016 data which showed the 90th percentile at almost 1 million (952000), but as I recall from past breakdown of the top 10%, median networth in the top 10% goes up steeply from that point.
Sorry, I can't find the top 10% breakdown tables anymore.


https://www.census.gov/library/publi...p70br-166.html


However, I think this source is using those original tables (a guess) and here goes, for 2016/17:


Net Worth Percentile2016 Dollar Cutoff
90.0%$1,182,390
95.0%$2,377,985.22
99.0%$10,374,030.10
99.5%$16,115,373.00
99.9%$43,090,281.00



https://dqydj.com/net-worth-brackets...s-one-percent/


This data passed the smell test for me. Unfortunately (or not), top 2% is now down graded to top 5% and top 5% -> top 10%.
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Old 08-14-2020, 09:00 PM   #52
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I guess i'm not in the top 50%. I would have thought I was. Seems most people around here spend everything they make. They must have a good net worth due to home appreciation because they aren't saving much or at least it doesn't appear they are. Must be all the big city big earners that skew the numbers up.
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Old 08-14-2020, 09:52 PM   #53
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Originally Posted by RobLJ View Post

Net Worth Percentile2016 Dollar Cutoff
90.0%$1,182,390
95.0%$2,377,985.22
99.0%$10,374,030.10
99.5%$16,115,373.00
99.9%$43,090,281.00



https://dqydj.com/net-worth-brackets...s-one-percent/


I guess there is a good message here (base on the above numbers), that if one max out his/her 401K and invests wisely for 20->30 years, one can get to the top 10% (~1mil in 2016 $). A double income family can get to top 5% that same way (~2 mil). Any after tax $ including home appreciation is on top of that. Folks with pension(s) will do as well with much less current NW (their NW will need a different calculation). The price to pay to get to the top ~10% (for most folks minus those with large inheritance) is time.
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Old 08-14-2020, 10:05 PM   #54
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I guess i'm not in the top 50%. I would have thought I was. Seems most people around here spend everything they make. They must have a good net worth due to home appreciation because they aren't saving much or at least it doesn't appear they are. Must be all the big city big earners that skew the numbers up.
We started out at the bottom 10% (doesn't seem that long ago). Try to save some $, buy a low-cost fund (VTI), add some small $ to the fund every pay-check; Forget about it, and in 5->10 years, you will be pleasantly surprised. Cheers.
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Old 08-15-2020, 03:52 AM   #55
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Those net worth numbers are not taking into consideration the age of those persons. Break it down by age and look again before you think you feel good about your own personal numbers;
https://www.bankrate.com/personal-fi...-worth-by-age/
Exactly what I was thinking. I have a 24 year old niece who is way down below the 50% threshold but is an absolute beast at saving. She's golden.
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Old 08-15-2020, 05:02 AM   #56
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Net Worth USA Percentiles – Top 1%, 5%, 10%, and 50% in Net Worth

This is a really interesting ranking. It also brings to mind another thought...

Burma, instead of (or maybe in addition to) measuring Gross Domestic Product, measures Gross National Happiness.

It would be fascinating to see one of these percentile rankings which, instead of comparing net worth or income, compared some of the other determinants of actual wellbeing.

For example... health (maybe some aggregated score based on severity of health conditions, chronic conditions, etc.)... family & community (maybe an aggregated score based on number of connections, quality of connections, etc.)...

Of course, it would be very hard to reach any universal consensus on how to compose an aggregate score in these areas... and then, even if there were consensus, it would be just as hard to actually measure the population. So, what is easy to measure (income, debt, net worth, etc.) gets measured...

... although it’s not always the most relevant to our actual lives. We’ve probably all read of that study which shows that, although happiness does increase with income, it only does so up to a point (believe it was in the $70k - $100k range), and after that, the effect levels off or diminishes. Other factors presumably predominate beyond a certain point in income (or net worth).
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Old 08-15-2020, 05:49 AM   #57
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This is a really interesting ranking. It also brings to mind another thought...

Burma, instead of (or maybe in addition to) measuring Gross Domestic Product, measures Gross National Happiness.

It would be fascinating to see one of these percentile rankings which, instead of comparing net worth or income, compared some of the other determinants of actual wellbeing.

For example... health (maybe some aggregated score based on severity of health conditions, chronic conditions, etc.)... family & community (maybe an aggregated score based on number of connections, quality of connections, etc.)...

Of course, it would be very hard to reach any universal consensus on how to compose an aggregate score in these areas... and then, even if there were consensus, it would be just as hard to actually measure the population. So, what is easy to measure (income, debt, net worth, etc.) gets measured...

... although it’s not always the most relevant to our actual lives. We’ve probably all read of that study which shows that, although happiness does increase with income, it only does so up to a point (believe it was in the $70k - $100k range), and after that, the effect levels off or diminishes. Other factors presumably predominate beyond a certain point in income (or net worth).

Burma is one of the most repressive regimes in the world, with horrible human rights records, huge wealth disparities between the military supporters versus everyone else, and highly questionable vote tabulations. Using their own submitted calculations of “happiness” rather than more objective wealth numbers is Orwellian. I am sure that North Korea can offer up great “gross national happiness” numbers too.
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Old 08-15-2020, 06:35 AM   #58
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It is actually Bhutan.

https://ophi.org.uk/policy/national-...ppiness-index/
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Old 08-15-2020, 06:57 AM   #59
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Exactly what I was thinking. I have a 24 year old niece who is way down below the 50% threshold but is an absolute beast at saving. She's golden.
Income has a lot to do with it. I am a really good saver but my average income after 20+ years of full time work is under $30K/yr and dropping. I have saved over $250K despite that low income but to get to the higher % threshold a higher income is critical.
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Old 08-15-2020, 07:30 AM   #60
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How meaningful is it to bundle up the whole population without consideration of age of the people? Obvioulsy, younger folks haven't accumulated much money. I've seen age-dependent networth breakdowns in the past, and they give you a much different picture IMO.
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