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Old 11-20-2020, 01:43 PM   #161
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...millions of people working in high tech - 6 figures salaries, stock options, etc. Those people NW millions. Doctors, lawyers, business owners - don't believe that only 5% of population have NW more than 1M.
I know a lot of people who make six-figures. One is still working at age 69 because he has debt and two houses to maintain. Another is doctor who receives a full pension from working for the Navy, and had to take on a new job in his late 50s to be able to afford private school for his daughter, his $2.5M house, and his wife. Most people don't LBYMs, they spend up to and beyond their income, regardless of whether they make $50K, $80K, $120K, $250K. Once you get much past $250K, I can't comment.

Most of them have serious debt, and probably have a negative net worth. Check out the White Coat Investor web site. This is run by a doctor who is trying to help doctors with high salaries increase their net worth, rather than spending more than they make.
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Old 11-20-2020, 01:51 PM   #162
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As a person working in Data Analytics field I'd advise to take any research and statistics data with grain of salt. Big grain of salt. I know quality of the data used (in many cases it pure garbage) and level of the people who call themselves Data scientist.
Just think - millions of people working in high tech - 6 figures salaries, stock options, etc. Those people NW millions. Doctors, lawyers, business owners - don't believe that only 5% of population have NW more than 1M. The only caveat here that if family has 1M individual will have 500K..
5% is like 16-17M people.
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Old 11-20-2020, 01:51 PM   #163
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Another source...
Thanks. Can't tell if this is individuals, couples, households.
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Old 11-20-2020, 02:00 PM   #164
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Thanks. Can't tell if this is individuals, couples, households.
Virtually all net worth data is household.
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Old 11-20-2020, 02:08 PM   #165
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I know a lot of people who make six-figures. One is still working at age 69 because he has debt and two houses to maintain. Another is doctor who receives a full pension from working for the Navy, and had to take on a new job in his late 50s to be able to afford private school for his daughter, his $2.5M house, and his wife. Most people don't LBYMs, they spend up to and beyond their income, regardless of whether they make $50K, $80K, $120K, $250K. Once you get much past $250K, I can't comment.

Most of them have serious debt, and probably have a negative net worth. Check out the White Coat Investor web site. This is run by a doctor who is trying to help doctors with high salaries increase their net worth, rather than spending more than they make.
I was going to make a similar comment. Most doctors don't start earning until in their 30s, start out with large debt, and once getting a paycheque start piling on more debt to keep up with the 'image'. Not saying that doctors don't have the ability to become millionaires pretty easily, just that many don't. Big hat, no cattle, or also from 'The Millionaire Next Door', doctors tend to be under-accumulators of wealth.
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Old 11-20-2020, 02:12 PM   #166
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Another source...
Why hasn't the NW of the top 1% increased from 2017 to 2020. The S&P is up by 74% over this time. Unless they used the nadir in March to suggest that 'even the top 1% is struggling'.
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Old 11-20-2020, 02:16 PM   #167
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Why hasn't the NW of the top 1% increased from 2017 to 2020. The S&P is up by 74% over this time. Unless the used the nadir in March to suggest that 'even the top 1% is struggling'.
More disturbingly, how am I not in the top 10% yet?
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Old 11-20-2020, 02:27 PM   #168
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Why hasn't the NW of the top 1% increased from 2017 to 2020. The S&P is up by 74% over this time. Unless the used the nadir in March to suggest that 'even the top 1% is struggling'.
May be that is what 'CPI adjusted' above the chart mean. But I would not think inflation rate got overestimated so much that those 1%, even after retirement, have not advanced their NW. Perhaps it was the fiscal year data so the number was produced in July where the annual growth of stock was in the red from covid?

I will be happy to reach my individual milestone in a couple of years if all stars line up. Then I will work more on liking my job/career than focusing on saving.
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Old 11-20-2020, 02:42 PM   #169
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Another source...


A few observations.


This chart is consistent with a lot of others I've seen, so not surprising to me and seems to be reasonable.

The average doesn't mean much (IMO) since it's skewed so much by the top 10%.

And while I'm well into the top 10%, there's a big wealth difference between someone at 90% and someone at 99%. And a much, much bigger difference between someone at 99% and 99.99%. The upper end of that 99% (e.g. 99.95+%) would be life altering for most. Again, IMO...
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Old 11-20-2020, 02:52 PM   #170
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A few observations.


This chart is consistent with a lot of others I've seen, so not surprising to me and seems to be reasonable.

The average doesn't mean much (IMO) since it's skewed so much by the top 10%.

And while I'm well into the top 10%, there's a big wealth difference between someone at 90% and someone at 99%. And a much, much bigger difference between someone at 99% and 99.99 percent. The upper end of that 99% (99.95+%) would be life altering for most. Again, IMO...
You don't think that an 11 million dollar net worth would be 'life altering' for most! The cut off for 99.9 is 43 million! For 99.95 it must be somewhere around 100 million. So yes, life-altering!

I believe this is the data source for the graphic. https://dqydj.com/average-median-top...h-percentiles/
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Old 11-20-2020, 02:56 PM   #171
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While it nice to think that I in the top 2% I hardly can believe it. No luxury cars, expensive houses, 5 stars hotels. iPhone 6 and 12 years old TV...
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Old 11-20-2020, 02:56 PM   #172
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You don't think that an 11 million dollar net worth would be 'life altering' for most!

I guess it's relative... True, for most it would be life altering, since most are well below the 90% mark on the chart. But certainly not for me.... Even an extra 5 or 10 million isn't going to change my lifestyle very much.... Now 50 to 100+.. But again, that's me...


I'm still thinking about the UHNWI thread which is well into the top 1%. https://www.early-retirement.org/for...do-106473.html
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Old 11-20-2020, 03:14 PM   #173
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While it nice to think that I in the top 2% I hardly can believe it. No luxury cars, expensive houses, 5 stars hotels. iPhone 6 and 12 years old TV...
The average contributor to this site is in the top 10% NW, but typically continues to live an LBYM lifestyle, despite often stating that they need to spend more.
Thus the "feeling" of not living a top 10% lifestyle.
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Old 11-20-2020, 03:23 PM   #174
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If I can save just a wee bit more, we can make it into the bottom 1%.
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Old 11-20-2020, 03:42 PM   #175
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Got enough. I'm good. Never mind the rest.
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Old 11-20-2020, 04:02 PM   #176
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The difference between the 90th and the 99th percentile would be life-altering for me.
If I was at the 90th, ~$1.219M, I would have never had the guts to buy my house. I would be getting excited about the possibility of retiring "in the near future", if the stock market cooperated, but it wouldn't most likely be an extravagant retirement.

But at the 99th, ~$11.099M, I'd be calling my employer and telling them to get their computer out of my house, because I'm done with them. It would probably be a much nicer house than I ended up buying, as well. And I don't think I'd ever worry about anything financial again, as long as I lived. Unless I ran into some really horrible medical bills, or someone sued the hell out of me, I guess. Now I'm not the type to have aspirations of owning a private jet, a yacht, multiple vacation homes in expensive areas, buy expensive cars and trade every few months, etc. So to me, $11M would be a lot of money.

Right now, I'm around the entry point for the 94% threshold. If I was to lose my job, I wouldn't panic. Probably wouldn't look for another one. But, I wouldn't do anything extravagant, at least not at first. I'd still cut my own grass, rather than pay someone to do it. I'd keep driving the same car until something catastrophic happened on it, and then I'd probably go buy something a bit practical, and on a bit of a budget, rather than splurging.

But, put me to the 95% threshold, I'd definitely retire, and open the purse strings considerably. And at the 96%, $3.294M, I think I'd be pretty happy financially.

So in my case, even a 1-2% move in percentile (94 to 95 or 96%) could make what I'd call a life altering difference. It's the difference between "I'm close to retiring, but might have to budget here and there" to "I'm already gone, and not a financial care in the world!"
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Old 11-20-2020, 04:17 PM   #177
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You don't think that an 11 million dollar net worth would be 'life altering' for most!



Being in the 90th to 96th percentile (approx $1.2M to $2.2M) to me is life changing. It gives you a little above median lifestyle, but you no longer have to work.

But no luxury cars or high end house.
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Old 11-20-2020, 04:51 PM   #178
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I would just like to get to the point where I could fly small plane between locations. Would make travel so much easier.
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Old 11-20-2020, 04:59 PM   #179
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The average contributor to this site is in the top 10% NW, but typically continues to live an LBYM lifestyle, despite often stating that they need to spend more.
Thus the "feeling" of not living a top 10% lifestyle.
Maybe picking nits but I think the average FIRE contributor here may be in the top 10%, but based on several polls over the years there’s a significant SIRE membership here too, along with tweeners. They’re probably all effectively top 10%...but they’re different worlds.
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Old 11-20-2020, 05:10 PM   #180
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I would just like to get to the point where I could fly small plane between locations. Would make travel so much easier.

Did this for 15 years. It’s not always the best way to travel, but it is a very rewarding hobby.

Some considerations:

When you land, you will need transportation to and from the airport. Some airports let you use their car for free, otherwise you need to rent a car, take a cab, call a friend.

Depending on where you are, the weather may prevent you from travel or making it to your destination, whereas if you drove a car it may not have been a problem.

I once traveled on Thanksgiving day. Landed at a co-located military base. When I was doing my preflight to depart I notice the front tire was nearly flat. Remove nail, replace tube cost me $500.

With my plane, travel up to 750 miles made sense, beyond that it was better to take a commercial flight. If you live in the mountains or a high density population area, a plane has more of an advantage over a car.

Then there is the COVID advantage...
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