RunningBum
Give me a museum and I'll fill it. (Picasso) Give me a forum ...
- Joined
- Jun 18, 2007
- Messages
- 13,236
Is anyone familiar with this? It's a life insurance policy that pays off when both people die, which makes it an estate planning tool.
My parents bought one for them a couple years ago, at age 79/77. The annual non-variable premium is about $5800/yr, with a death benefit of $155,000.
They are nowhere near the tax exempt limit for estates, and I don't see any possible way they will be. They just found that they were spending less than their MRD and decided this was a better way to leave us (their kids) some money than just investing it. It would also leave us something if they go through their money and go on medicaid.
Now they're having second thoughts with the third payment coming due fairly soon. I don't want to get into why, so that it doesn't derail the topic. We can pick up the payments to keep the policy going, otherwise they may just let it lapse. The surrender value is more than the cash value right now.
From what I see, a 5% after tax return on $5800 annually gets over $155K in the 17th year. They are 81/79 now. A mortality table I found puts them at 14.6 years jointly. They are in good health now but both have factors that would probably put them at a little under average expectancy. My dad has a 90 year old brother and an uncle who made 88, but otherwise they were mostly in the 70s. My mom has already outlived her parents.
It seems that looking at this from an investment view, especially from this point forward (the previous 2 payments are a sunk cost), it is a decent investment, better than I would expect from life insurance. A 10% return would still take 13 years. A 3% return would take 20 years.
Is anyone else familiar with this type of policy? Any comments? I don't have direct access to the policy but my brother does, and he is in contact with the agent, who is actually a family friend. Of course he is making a commission, and perhaps they should not have gotten it in the first place, but our decision point is now with the 3rd payment coming up, which does change the picture somewhat. All of us are leaning toward continuing the policy, but if anyone wants out the rest of us would pick up their share and we'd just split it according to who is paying.
My parents bought one for them a couple years ago, at age 79/77. The annual non-variable premium is about $5800/yr, with a death benefit of $155,000.
They are nowhere near the tax exempt limit for estates, and I don't see any possible way they will be. They just found that they were spending less than their MRD and decided this was a better way to leave us (their kids) some money than just investing it. It would also leave us something if they go through their money and go on medicaid.
Now they're having second thoughts with the third payment coming due fairly soon. I don't want to get into why, so that it doesn't derail the topic. We can pick up the payments to keep the policy going, otherwise they may just let it lapse. The surrender value is more than the cash value right now.
From what I see, a 5% after tax return on $5800 annually gets over $155K in the 17th year. They are 81/79 now. A mortality table I found puts them at 14.6 years jointly. They are in good health now but both have factors that would probably put them at a little under average expectancy. My dad has a 90 year old brother and an uncle who made 88, but otherwise they were mostly in the 70s. My mom has already outlived her parents.
It seems that looking at this from an investment view, especially from this point forward (the previous 2 payments are a sunk cost), it is a decent investment, better than I would expect from life insurance. A 10% return would still take 13 years. A 3% return would take 20 years.
Is anyone else familiar with this type of policy? Any comments? I don't have direct access to the policy but my brother does, and he is in contact with the agent, who is actually a family friend. Of course he is making a commission, and perhaps they should not have gotten it in the first place, but our decision point is now with the 3rd payment coming up, which does change the picture somewhat. All of us are leaning toward continuing the policy, but if anyone wants out the rest of us would pick up their share and we'd just split it according to who is paying.