Suze Orman - You need 20M to retire early

I can't remember the last time I drove a car past 4 years. DW holds on a little longer because she drives very little. And, I can't remember the last time I bought a used car. Most of my working years, I had a car payment (lease), yet here I am retired at 57. How did that happen Dave? Seriously, it's all about choices and disciplined savings. Cars have always been my guilty pleasure. So be it.
We drove our Jeep Liberty 17 years. Only car. At about 12 years we were ready to buy another car but other things kept getting in the way.

Anyway the new Model X made up for it.
 
Hilarious. OMG. So if people who are going to FIRE need $20 million, I suppose people that only have 1 or 2 $million are doomed. Add me to that list! LOL! Heck, 97-98% of Americans are probably doomed as well.

Why should I start listening to her now? I never did before! LOL!
 
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I listened to her once. For about ten minutes. There was zero value for me.

She has made a good gig for herself. It is about entertainment plus a little shock value as much as anything.

Her style reminds me very much of those awful televangelists. Probably one of the reasons why ten minutes or so was my absolute max.
 
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When I was young it seemed like most of the cars barely made it to 100k miles and now that’s nothing. My FIL gave us his 1 year old dodge as a wedding gift. We had so many issues with it and it died at 78k miles. My sister still replaces her car every 100k miles and I can’t convince her that is unnecessary.
 
Interesting that I was surfing channels and ran across her... decided to watch a bit..


The first thing that I heard (I got in late) was that you needed to work till you were 70 (and maybe later)... even if you had enough money!!!


The second thing was that the advice that she would give is not the same as she would have given 20, 10 or even 5 years ago... REALLY? So the advice you gave 5 years ago is now bad?


I switched to go find something more interesting to watch...
 
I haven't watched or listened to Suze for a while, but I thought that her advice was generally fine. I just chalk up much of her hyperbole to the needs of someone in financial entertainment field to have a shtick that gets eyeballs.

Her recent comments about FIRE are dumb, but her overall advice of not buying stupid stuff, avoiding keep-up-with-the-joneses-itis, and avoiding most debt is good for as many folks to hear as possible.

She's also not wrong that a 35-year-old with $2M isn't an automatic lock for FIRE
. Yes, it can be done (I bet most folks on this board could do it), but if you've still got a mortgage, need a new car every few years, and live in a high COLA it could be tough.


I tend to agree. I think she is someone that could be sued if she was out there promoting the idea that a 35 year old with $2 million should retire. It could be about protecting herself from giving bad professional advice.

Also, consider that she is saying anything could happen. She means like an accident that requires extensive and expensive help for the rest of your life for you or a loved one.

I think it is an Umbrella Disclaimer.
 
According to a famous financial website, you need a NW of $5.8M to be in the "top One Percent". So, according to Suze, only a small fraction of 1% of people should ever retire early (or at all)? I've never followed her and - based on this statement - I'm a little mystified that others do. Maybe she gives solid investment advice?
 
In our 21 years of marriage we have had 4 cars. 3 we are still driving. The fourth was driven until is was no longer road worthy and traded in for $500 credit.

The 19 year old car has just over 150k miles which my daughter is driving and was purchased before she was born. We don't drive too much.


Interesting...

I have had 3 cars in the last 33 years. I buy them new and drive them into the ground. I used to drive a ton until I drove normal and slowed down during the pandemic to where I really focused on driving less when gas hit $6 a gallon. I had one lemon I traded after it was on it's 4th transmission. The 3rd car I fully expect to still be driving another 7-10 years (it runs like day one partly because I maintained it pretty well). So, that would be 3 cars in somewhere in the range of 40 years :cool:

I will try not to overspend on the final vehicle. :angel:
 
Guys,

You're missing it.

It's completely all about giving a disclaimer so she will not be sued.
 
According to a famous financial website, you need a NW of $5.8M to be in the "top One Percent". So, according to Suze, only a small fraction of 1% of people should ever retire early (or at all)? I've never followed her and - based on this statement - I'm a little mystified that others do. Maybe she gives solid investment advice?

I don't think she gives investment advice, more about getting your financial house in order. I read one of her books over 20 years ago, after I had read the Millionaire Next Door. The one piece of her advice that I took was to buy term life insurance policies instead of whole life and invest the difference in cost.

I bought 20 year policies when my kids were born assuming I would have enough saved by then that I would no longer need life insurance. I'm coming up on expiration of the fixed premiums on my first policy later this year. Assuming my annual physical goes well, I'll let it lapse. I have another, larger policy that will expire in 2028 which is the year I expect to retire. I'll likely let that one lapse too.
 
I tend to agree. I think she is someone that could be sued if she was out there promoting the idea that a 35 year old with $2 million should retire. It could be about protecting herself from giving bad professional advice.

I think it is an Umbrella Disclaimer.

It could be a disclaimer, but it also isn't uncommon/unwarranted advice. In a TV/Radio/Internet audience there will be a wide range of possibilities. Some definitely could make it work (depending on where they live), but for a non trivial chunk of the populace, it may not work without some serious tradeoffs. For a young couple with two young children, the risk profile of starting today and trying to navigate through life's twist and turns and provide for their future is much greater than someone who is 40, 50, or 60+. Let's be honest, some of the early proponents of the movement online have now gone back to work (after FIRE in their 30s) or are essentially working full/part time sharing their schtick. I didn't listen to the full podcast, but saw another report on the same interview and she noted the difference if someone was older and can live within their means with the right income flows across potential outcomes (although she is generally anti-fire, esp for those in their 30s). I

I remember her at her peak popularity. She would have callers come in with unrealistic budgets, a wishlist purchase or other financial situations and she'd dish out advice, sometimes full of hyperbole, but often with just sound basic practices (like getting credit card debt down, start your Roth/401K early, etc). It was more for entertainment, in terms of delivery style, like a Judge Judy for the financially delusional.
 
Can’t let go of their empires?


Ramsey is working to make his 'empire' less dependent on him as the spokesman. I think there 5, maybe more people that are giving advice and making appearances. No clue how far away he will get though. I've seen a him being interview by other podcasters discussing the plan.
 
Suze was wealthy enough to walk away decades ago, but she apparently can’t psychologically and/or she goes over the top lavish lifestyle already and wants yet more.

Dave, I’ve never been sure if he amassed much wealth as he seems so clueless about investing.
 
Suze was wealthy enough to walk away decades ago, but she apparently can’t psychologically and/or she goes over the top lavish lifestyle already and wants yet more.

Dave, I’ve never been sure if he amassed much wealth as he seems so clueless about investing.

Dave seems to believe the market consistently delivers returns of 11-12% without volatility and 8% is a safe withdrawal rate. If this is what he's seeing in his statements I would not be surprised to learn he turned over his wealth to a ponzi scheme.
 
Dave and Suze need to team up so she can freak out when Dave spends $1.6 million each year (8% of $20 mil), now that would make for some fun listening.
 
I used to joke that she was bought and paid for by the Social Security Administration, because she kept harping on that work until you're 70 jive.

I've thought the same thing. She definitely plays to the low information crowd.
 
The Media, Govt, and Brokerage house goal has always been the same.
You don't have enough to retire. Stay in the market, Stay employed,
Take SS at 70 etc etc.

Why? So they can make money.

This mainly applies those who retire on their own. Without tax payer based pensions.

Just my 2.
 
Suze was wealthy enough to walk away decades ago, but she apparently can’t psychologically and/or she goes over the top lavish lifestyle already and wants yet more.

Dave, I’ve never been sure if he amassed much wealth as he seems so clueless about investing.


No, on the short time I saw her on TV she said she loved what she did and wants to continue to do it...


I doubt she will ever 'retire'... there are a lot of these people out there... look at how old some of the news people are on TV... and they have made millions...
 
I doubt she will ever 'retire'... there are a lot of these people out there... look at how old some of the news people are on TV... and they have made millions...
The same could be said for a lot of politicians in this country.
 
If you FIRE at 35 her message might actually be relevant. In future dollars you might really need 20 million.

I read it carefully. Much of what she says resonated, especially for the black swan-like doom and gloom scenarios she talks about. I believe many FIRE are being optimistic out of choice, which is OK, life is a gamble and nobody knows if they'll be around tomorrow.

So to be fair to her, I'd say she is not reacting to a forum like this, but rather some of these ridiculous FIRE bloggers and subreddits. Of course you don't need $20M, but reality is even $2M is not the same if it is in a traditional vs Roth vs taxable. $2M invested is very different than $2M equity in your primary residence.

Other than this forum, I find far too much of the FIRE conversations act like its super simple and you just get to number and quit, its thats simple.. vs. most of us have complex spreadsheets, looking into tax law, created a tax plan and withdrawal plan, know all the details of the ACA and how SS is calculated and have budgets that include home and care replacements and a plan for LTC. Most of which that is all glossed over and often thought of as "not a big deal".

Yes you can delay paying taxes and get a huge ACA subsidy but you should also have accounted for the tax consequences later on as then you may have actually needed $3-4M instead.

Agree that it is complicated and not a simple matter of applying simple arithmetic to $2M. Regarding my own very conservative outlook on FI I harken back to a quote from Lee Trevino, "After beating Jack Nicklaus in a playoff at the 1971 U.S. Open: "I was trying to get so far ahead I could choke and still win, but I had to keep on playing."" I want my investable assets to be so large that the market could crater and I would still have enough to be comfortable, so I keep on working.

I don't think I'd even know what to do with $20M.

I got a smaller windfall from inheritance a few years ago and I DCA'ed into a VG-500 mutual fund and haven't looked back. It is up (luckily) 33% but that's just timing luck, not a tactical benefit. I always pondered to myself what I would do and personally promised myself I would move it into a SPY-like investment and forget about it. I implemented that plan perfectly, as planned and expected.

I can't remember the last time I drove a car past 4 years. DW holds on a little longer because she drives very little. And, I can't remember the last time I bought a used car. Most of my working years, I had a car payment (lease), yet here I am retired at 57. How did that happen Dave? Seriously, it's all about choices and disciplined savings. Cars have always been my guilty pleasure. So be it.

Before FI we always drove beaters and junkers. About 10 years ago when we blew past FI I decided to start buying new cars. As someone who appreciates and enjoys technology I'm hooked on this same guilty pleasure but mainly due to sensor technology, CarPlay and overall reliability that a new car brings vs a beater or junker which I was continuously spending time and money tending to whatever was failing or requiring repair.

Depends on what one defines as early. She mey be refering to 30 year old couple. That couple will get pretty much nothing in Social Security. Has to pay for healthcare almost all their life.

You need at least some 8 digit number for that.

Agree, you need a much bigger number when you're self-funding Medicare and SS equivalents in your pre-60's years.

I don't get ACA subsidies and my premium for a Silver Plan is about $16K a year for one person (age 61). My maximum OOP is $9,100. So in the worst case scenario, my health insurance costs $25K a year. My husband is on Medicare with a Plan F supplement. He is on Trulicity, so his Plan D+out of pocket for drugs is about $3,200 per year. His Plan F supplement costs about $3,400 not including Medicare Plan B premiums.

We are able to itemize deductions each year due to high medical costs. Once I turn 65, I think we will be able to drop back to doing standard deductions.

Let me get this straight as I've never investigated ACA. You're over 2K/month for insurance with ACA?
 
I agree with others about Dave Ramsey and Suze Orman being out of touch with contemporary financial reality. I think 8-9 figures is just too far removed from Joe and Jill six-pack, they are relying on their distant memories, not recent lived experiences or even the stories of friends.

Ramsey seems to have let his success turn him arrogant as well. His succession strategy is brittle because he won't let any of his mini-me's do anything more than parrot his specific talking points, and if they deviate at all they are chastened. George Kamel was apparently taken to task for trying to gently point out that 8% SWR was insane. See the DirtyDave forum on Reddit if you enjoy Ramsey Solutions gossip.
 
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