The Atlantic Article on Lack of Savings

[papadad111]

On talk radio the other day, Dave Ramsey mentioned this article.

His perspective was that at least this guy admitted to making some mistakes, not making a claim of being a total victim "of the system"...

 

[Markola]

On talk radio the other day, Dave Ramsey mentioned this article.

His perspective was that at least this guy admitted to making some mistakes, not making a claim of being a total victim "of the system"...

I like Dave Ramsey, who is the best I've seen at showing a simple, clear and powerful path for people who, unlike this author, have hit bottom and are DETERMINED to get rid of debt and build financial security. He's often a crank and I don't like his occasional political comments, but his message about debt, crushing one's debt, avoiding more debt and making oneself bullet proof financially is powerfully helpful stuff for those who are WILLING to take action. Most, like the author, aren't. I had married friends who went through a bankruptcy in 2009 and were in a bad place emotionally and reached out to me for ideas. I asked if they'd be interested in Ramsey's central book "Total Money Makeover" and they said yes. I sent it to them and never heard about it again. Later they divorced. Recently, the husband, who remains a good friend, asked me for help with learning to budget after his truck, that he's making payments to another friend on, was broken. I told him about You Need A Budget (YNAB), which I use. He bought the software but didn't bother to learn to use it, wanting me to come show him. In the subsequent first couple of months he bought an $800 bike and an expensive stove for the house he lives in and RENTS. It's been a lesson in how even good people who have seemingly hit bottom can be impervious to change and also how it is important to me with my friendships to focus on mutual interests and avoid financial dimensions. He asked me how he could ever retire and all I could say was "Work until 68 - 70 when you can maximize Social Security" and I also thought, unkindly, "Maybe you can re-marry someone who will take care of you financially."

 

[CaliforniaMan]

To me this has been a very interesting thread. And a special thanks to Flyboy5 for his research. But I think it shows an even deeper problem than one bad author and one bad article.

I am a subscriber to The Atlantic, but decided not to renew my subscription even before this article came out. I don't know what has changed more, me or The Atlantic, but I remember decades ago when reading a well thought out Atlantic article really made me think and could actually make me change my mind about an issue. I always looked forward to gaining some insight from their articles.

Now I find most of them are just very long winded fluff, more designed for shock appeal than any actual analysis. And I don't think it is only The Atlantic. Years ago I ended my subscription to Time Magazine and other "news" weeklies. For Time, they even removed the "letters to the Editor" section, which was sometimes the best part.

Maybe they no longer have the money to pay their authors, or maybe there are no longer any good actual editors, or maybe their readership is less well educated, I don't know, but it makes me sad.

And... and... get off my lawn!

(Sorry to hijack the thread, but hey at least it is not about Porches )

 

[REWahoo]

(Sorry to hijack the thread, but hey at least it is not about Porches )

Hey!

 

[Walt34]

...and an expensive stove for the house he lives in and RENTS.

I have to ask - was there something wrong with the stove that was there, the house owner didn't replace it and buying one was was easier than moving or was this just a "I wanna new stove" kind of thing?

 

[Markola]

I have to ask - was there something wrong with the stove that was there, the house owner didn't replace it and buying one was was easier than moving or was this just a "I wanna new stove" kind of thing?

The reason I mentioned it is because the imperviousness of the author to basic personal finance principles like LBYM seems to be common, including my friend. But, yes, he made some amazing pho on the original stove, so there was nothing wrong with it. He is a great cook and just wanted a higher end stove, right now, because it came up for sale in Craig's List, which means it was destined for him to own! I love the guy and to keep it that way, as a relationship boundary, I've simply made the decision recently that I cannot help him as some kind of financial advisor when he asks. I find it awkward to discuss a friend's (horrible) finances and then I find it frustrating because he doesn't act on anything I suggest. I only share this story because I'm sure others have a love able financial disaster in their lives. Serenity Prayer, Serenity Prayer...

 

[audreyh1]

To me this has been a very interesting thread. And a special thanks to Flyboy5 for his research. But I think it shows an even deeper problem than one bad author and one bad article.

I am a subscriber to The Atlantic, but decided not to renew my subscription even before this article came out. I don't know what has changed more, me or The Atlantic, but I remember decades ago when reading a well thought out Atlantic article really made me think and could actually make me change my mind about an issue. I always looked forward to gaining some insight from their articles.

Now I find most of them are just very long winded fluff, more designed for shock appeal than any actual analysis. And I don't think it is only The Atlantic. Years ago I ended my subscription to Time Magazine and other "news" weeklies. For Time, they even removed the "letters to the Editor" section, which was sometimes the best part.

Maybe they no longer have the money to pay their authors, or maybe there are no longer any good actual editors, or maybe their readership is less well educated, I don't know, but it makes me sad.

And... and... get off my lawn!

(Sorry to hijack the thread, but hey at least it is not about Porches )

Journalism in general. The publishing industry think they can make all the money off of sound bites and click bait and aren't willing to invest in real investigative journalism anymore, not to mention fact checking. And maybe they're right. Maybe most people don't read in depth articles anymore.

I admit I've given up. I just do the web searches it takes when I want to learn more about any particular topic. There are some sites that cover stuff in depth, but they aren't general magazines, but rather dedicated to specific topics.

 

[kcowan]

The only magazine I appreciate anymore is The Smithsonian, and, even then, only select articles. For some reason, I enjoy the print versions more than the online version. I think it is because their article headings cannot represent the content adequately.

 

[Danmar]

Agree about the "dumbing down" of the media. Magazines, newspapers, TV all seem to be aiming for a level of intelligence and sophistication that appears to be quite low. No lack of opinions though, often poorly supported. Not sure where all this ends up, but pretty sure I will be gone before we see it.

 

[Walt34]

Serenity Prayer, Serenity Prayer...

I understand, have a nephew like that. Great guy personally, lots of fun, has no sense at all with money.

 

[ggbutcher]

I ran across this article by happenstance; it was one of those follow-on articles the publications are now putting at the end of the article you selected to read, in order to keep your eyes on the site:

Opting Out of Coastal Madness to Live a Low-Overhead Life - The Atlantic

She talks about Mr. Gabler, his article, and how her situation does (or really, does not) relate to his. I think we'd get along better with her...

 

[ejman]

I ran across this article by happenstance; it was one of those follow-on articles the publications are now putting at the end of the article you selected to read, in order to keep your eyes on the site:

Opting Out of Coastal Madness to Live a Low-Overhead Life - The Atlantic

She talks about Mr. Gabler, his article, and how her situation does (or really, does not) relate to his. I think we'd get along better with her...

Uh, I like her! didn't much care for that other feller....

 

[ExFlyBoy5]

It's somewhat bothersome to me that Gabler's article is still the number two of the popular articles on The Atlantic website.

Sent via mobile device. Please excuse any grammatical errors.

 

[RobbieB]

I thought both were very good and were well presented eh? One after the other? A look at 2 ways of dealing with it?

And especially since she is a fan of Gabler?

Not to mention, they both got paid -

 

[GrayHare]

Agree about the "dumbing down" of the media. Magazines, newspapers, TV all seem to be aiming for a level of intelligence and sophistication that appears to be quite low. No lack of opinions though, often poorly supported. Not sure where all this ends up, but pretty sure I will be gone before we see it.

For information people now head to the internet where they check their favorite sites. For entertainment they seek the other media. This bifurcation will continue to grow such that in the coming years few print magazines will have much thoughtful content. Television is ahead of magazines in this transition.

 

[rayinpenn]

I ran across this article by happenstance; it was one of those follow-on articles the publications are now putting at the end of the article you selected to read, in order to keep your eyes on the site:

Opting Out of Coastal Madness to Live a Low-Overhead Life - The Atlantic

She talks about Mr. Gabler, his article, and how her situation does (or really, does not) relate to his. I think we'd get along better with her...

The author is genuine and likable but the path to financial independence rarely includes a house cleaner, twice a week visits to 'spendy restaurants', 4 dollar lattes, frequent visits to the nail place or any other indulgences. Particulary on a part timers salary. I'd love to see what else is in her budget.

Then there's that whole entitlement theme it starts with 'I deserve...' If I could answer I'd sit her down and say you don't deserve anything you earn it. Lady no one said life is easy but you can make it better with restraint, balance and building a big pile....


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[rayinpenn]

Retirement in an affordable city

I took the liberty of pulling this out of the post about Neil G because I I am disgusted with his lifestyle. The author in this article is a real and honest person.

I ran across this article by happenstance; it was one of those follow-on articles the publications are now putting at the end of the article you selected to read, in order to keep your eyes on the site:

Opting Out of Coastal Madness to Live a Low-Overhead Life - The Atlantic

She talks about Mr. Gabler, his article, and how her situation does (or really, does not) relate to his. I think we'd get along better with her...

The author is genuine and likable but the path to financial independence rarely includes a house cleaner, twice a week visits to 'spendy restaurants', (4 dollar lattes, frequent visits to the nail place) or any other indulgences. Particulary on a part timers salary. I'd love to see what else is in her budget.

Then there's that whole entitlement theme it starts with 'I deserve...' If I could answer I'd sit her down and say you don't deserve anything you earn it. Lady no one said life is easy but you can make it better with restraint, balance and building a big pile....I think she's nearly figured it out.



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[MichaelB]

Do we really need another thread on this guy?

Edit - same topic, so threads merged.

 

[Gumby]

Then there's that whole entitlement theme it starts with 'I deserve...'

As Clint told us

 

[papadad111]

There is a lot of truth about cutting overhead to "afford" a better lifestyle. I'm sure the author could be living in San Francisco, paying 3000 per month for an apartment. Instead she is in Cleveland and paying 700 dollars for an apartment, 300 for a maid, 250 in lattes, 175 for nails, and who knows what for nice restaurant meals.

I like that she chose a trade off vs others who want it all and get it all via credit card debt. I won't fault her lifestyle - frugality isn't for everyone and definitions of that are individual in nature - but spending less than you earn is- so kudos to her ...

 

[rayinpenn]

Do we really need another thread on this guy?

Edit - same topic, so threads merged.

There are millions of people living in the tri-state area because of habit, fear of trying something new and "my family lives there". I was one of them. My 60 year old cape cod was tiny.. Not enough room in the proper kitchen for a table and barely enough in the dinning room for a table and a hutch. A narrow driveway and a tiny band of grass separated the homes. Whats more the school system was mediocre at best. Oh it was tidy, updated and well landscaped. When I sold it for $500,000 there was an attempt at a bidding war but I shook hands with the first full price offer and I stood by our agreement.

The house I found just over a hundred miles away was roughly $70k less. It in comparison is a castle, eat in kitchen (that has a large wooden table that I am sitting at right now) , full size dining room, walk in closets etc., My daughters 3.75 at a top 100 university is testimony to the school district. The HS is like a small university.
There is less traffic, the occasional fox sighting and deer, oh lord are there deer. The potato beds are generous and there's room for dozens of tomato plants. For me well it has been 10 years of paradise.

I've seen colleagues tear up at the when discussing there house hunting on Long Island. So many young couples are priced out of the market. It was awful. I guess that why any discussion about living in a lower cost area peaks my interest. I am so tired of Neil G and his excuses. Mike I should have posted the above. Apologies...

Thinking of retiring it the NYC (or metropolitan) area that you know consider shifting the paradigm and moving to a lower cost area - do your homework and start a new adventure...








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[Danmar]

I took the liberty of pulling this out of the post about Neil G because I I am disgusted with his lifestyle.



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With all due respect I think your reaction is too strong. There are winners and losers at the financial game of life. He is a loser and I suspect you and most people here, are winners. There are plenty of losers around and they often make the winners feel better.

 

[rayinpenn]

It isn't the bad choices it is all the excuses...


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[haha]

I read Ann Trubek's article about moving to a depressed area. Cleveland was once a great city, and it still has the quality orchestras, art museums and universities and medicine infrastructure of a great city.

And she lives in Shaker Heights, historically a beautiful and affluent suburb. I think this is telling. If you move to one of these formerly great eastern or mid-western cities, don't expect to live downtown like you can in many more currently successful and higher cost cities. Crime will convince you that you are much better off in the burbs.

And most people want to live in the suburbs anyway, so the only loss is their friends and/or family in the old place.

And if you have children, many of them will have to leave once they are post college, since really these old rust belt cities are not the easiest places for a young person to create a career.

Ha

 

[NW-Bound]

There are many cities in between the extreme of coastal metro areas and rustbelt cities, where housing cost is more manageable and good jobs can be had.

I recently have seen a few articles talking about people who do not hold high-paid tech jobs wanting to leave SF area. Even the rank-and-file high-tech workers are hard pressed to buy a home there. My brother refused an offer to go back to Google, which came with a high 6-figure option. He and his wife did not want to give up their 4000-sq.ft. home in Phoenix.