The Atlantic Article on Lack of Savings

[REWahoo]

I still want a Porsche
...

I have three - or at least I did. We converted one to a playroom for the grand kids. Now we only have a front porsche and a back porsche.

 

[travelover]

I still want a Porsche
...

Closest I ever came was a Karmann Ghia convertible. Damn frugal genes.

 

[Keim]

Closest I ever came was a Karmann Ghia convertible. Damn frugal genes.

...and I always wanted one of those. But I'm 6' 6". Damn tall genes.

 

[mpeirce]

...and I always wanted one of those. But I'm 6' 6". Damn tall genes.

We settled on a GTI as our "fun car". It doesn't turn heads, but it is a blast to drive. And both my son (6'7") and I (6'6") fit in it just fine.

I know it's no Porsche, but it is way way cheaper.

 

[youbet]

We settled on a GTI........ it's no Porsche

As a former GTI owner, I'd say you've made the understatement of the day!

Had fun with mine and eventually gave it to my son to take to college where he had a lot of fun. But, as you say, it's no Porsche.

 

[Lawrence of Suburbia]

I'll probably never have a Porsche; I'm still paying off the Lamborghini.

 

[HFWR]

Closest I ever came was a Karmann Ghia convertible. Damn frugal genes.

VW for me. Damned broke genes...

Actually, have never wanted a Porsche.

 

[Fedup]

I never buy a Porsche, in my neighborhood, it usually a geezer with white hair driving a Porsche. I think they are hoping to impress somebody.


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[Keim]

We settled on a GTI as our "fun car". It doesn't turn heads, but it is a blast to drive. And both my son (6'7") and I (6'6") fit in it just fine.

I know it's no Porsche, but it is way way cheaper.

I settled on restoring my first car. It is a 76 Monte Carlo-the Anti-Porsche.

It has a sunroof, my height is a non-issue.

 

[pb4uski]

What's this thread about?

 

[REWahoo]

What's this thread about?

Looks like it is about done...

 

[pb4uski]

Good.... after learning more about that author I felt duped.

 

[MichaelB]

What's this thread about?

Looks like it is about done...

Not until I talk about my Porsche. A silver 959 beauty I picked up when we were in NY.

I still remember the day I bought it. DW and I had been talking about the future, how nice it would be to have a fancy car, and one day when we were in a shopping mall I saw the Porsche in a toy store, so I bought it and gift-wrapped it for her. When I gave it to her I told her it was the fanciest car we were every going to own ... and there is sits on a shelf in the office, amid memorabilia from a past life.

 

[Johnora]

So a little off on this topic but I was raised watching reruns of one of my favorite TV shows back when I watched TV. It was Maverick, and for those of you willing to admit it, good old Bret Maverick always kept $500 tucked away just in case and he even needed that money a time or two. Well being inflation is what it is, I have for years made sure that we had a few thousand $$ tucked away, not to be touched unless a serious emergency hit us and we had to use it. It was invisible, not even included when I calculated our savings.
I can't imagine managing finances so poorly, only thinking for today, no real thought or planning for the future. Bret Maverick would be so disappointed in them.....

 

[Keim]

What's this thread about?

Whiny authors, and midlife crisis cars...

Back to the topic at hand-I wonder what the author drives.

 

[Gumby]

Whiny authors, and midlife crisis cars...

Back to the topic at hand-I wonder what the author drives.

According to the article

We drive a 1997 Toyota Avalon with 160,000 miles that I got from my father when he died.

But who knows if you can trust a word he says?

 

[petershk]

Assuming he's potentially inauthentic but also that his topic is directionally accurate what amazes me is what is done... or not done... about it.

My parents are both well educated, well meaning and loving people. Lucky me.

They also lived fairly modestly relative to my dad's income... which was usually upper middle class... and they always were careful not to spoil us and remind us that we're lucky to have so much.

That said... I'm pretty sure nether of them have very much saved up. Plus... neither of them ever taught US about money aside from the fact that we shouldn't waste it on stupid things.

It's amazing. I don't think they ever heard of indexing, watching transaction costs/fees, paying yourself first, etc.

I'm sure they lived below their means in terms of not buying expensive things and keeping up appearances but they made dumb decisions elsewhere.

I haven't talked to them but I think it was different in both cases (parents divorced I suspect that wasn't cheap). My mom started a business that lost money for 10 years. I'm pretty sure my dad thought he could beat the market but have never talked to him about it.

I stumbled onto FI after doing stupid things myself with investing and entrepreneurship.

I screwed up and started digging and then found this whole world of ideas that made complete sense. I'm not sure at which point it clicked, but it did.

Why the hell don't they teach "basic financial common sense" at school.

Start with the 4% rule and how your annual savings rate impacts how much money you have.

Explain transaction costs and fees and how they steal your money.

Show people the general impact of market timing.

Stuff like that.

And I don't buy conspiracy theories that this left out on purpose. I guess maybe it's not part of common core or stem... or maybe we separate money from education. I dunno.

I plan on teaching my kids first hand.

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[imoldernu]

Another view of the subject:

Of Two Minds - America's Entitled (and Doomed) Upper Middle Class

Excerpt:

We are naturally sympathetic to anyone describing themselves as middle-class who is in such dire financial straits that they don't even have $500 as an emergency fund.

But as we read further, we find the author is hardly a typical middle-class worker-bee: he was a substitute host on a national television program for a few years, received substantial advances for books he wrote (substantial enough for him to complain about the taxes due), got a Hollywood movie deal for another book he wrote, etc.

He was making enough money to suggest his film-producer spouse (yet another not-a-middle-class job) quit working, and to buy a house in the tony Hamptons which he poo-poos as nothing special. (A home in a pricey premier suburb is nothing special? In what circles is it nothing special?)

The solution to his poverty is obvious to the rest of us: sell his Hamptons home and moving to less tony digs. He could buy a house in a Midwest college town for a fraction of the Hamptons house and live happily ever after off the cashed-out equity.

The writer was never middle-class--he was upper middle-class, with upper middle-class income, assets and aspirations.

more....

 

[FreeBear]

Why the hell don't they teach "basic financial common sense" at school.

Start with the 4% rule and how your annual savings rate impacts how much money you have.

Explain transaction costs and fees and how they steal your money.

Show people the general impact of market timing.

Stuff like that.

And I don't buy conspiracy theories that this left out on purpose. I guess maybe it's not part of common core or stem... or maybe we separate money from education. I dunno.

I plan on teaching my kids first hand.

+1

Yep, I wish I knew more sooner. Maybe we ER's should give some classes based on real-world experience, although this may be too much w*rk and hassle. "What do you mean I must save and invest 20% or more of my income? Not possible! Can't you just give me some hot tips to beat the market and retire in 15 months..."

I only started planning for FI and eventually ER in my late 20's and early 30's because I saw my entire industry off-shoring to the Pacific Rim. This way a huge gift in hindsight, since it give me the motivation to get out. Seeing what it did to folks in their 50's and 60's was eye-opening. Most of these people made good, even great money, often with a high school education.

Back in the late 1990's, it seemed like passive indexing was more controversial, so I did active funds with expense ratios of 0.5 to 1% in both taxable and 401k. This was especially costly in taxable accounts. Still, I saved about 20-30% of my gross income, avoided AUM financial advisors I couldn't (and still can't) afford, and chose relatively inexpensive funds w/o loads. Still managed to escape, with DW's help, in my 40's.

Wish I knew more about passive index investing and the math behind retirement, things like the 4% rule. I would have loved to have the great simulators like Firecalc and others. On the other hand, I would have been anxiously awaiting an even earlier retirement and would have pushed saving until it started to hurt and beyond.

Glad to see some young folks avoiding the cultural corporate coolaid and saving and investing in their own futures. It's discouraging, in the real world outside ER.org, MM, and the like to see that such folks are scarce as unicorns. On the other hand, someone has to pay the SS and Medicare for us ER's...

 

[BLS53]

I always wondered if people like this actually beat the system in their own way. I mean this guy got hundreds of thousands of dollars more in goods and services then he ever bothered to pay for, and in the end he can just declare bankruptcy and move on to do it again. His retirement will be a series of social programs and SS, and probably some under the table money from his children. In other words, this guy will have lived well beyond his means, and despite some ups and downs, vary well may have lived a better life (personally and materialistically) than those of us who sacrificed and paid our own way. He may actually have 'beat' us!

Bingo! That's the reality of the real world. The fact that the guy has a huge IRS lien (the worst possible creditor to have) from 11 years ago, and is still living life unscathed, speaks volumes. Intellectuals like himself know how to work the system, while the poor and uneducated live under the fear and power of debt collectors.

 

[BLS53]

Yes, I am amazed......... But..........

Apparently you desire to keep your source of this info confidential. You say it's publicly available but won't mention where......

Not that I have any doubt, I don't in the least, but could you at least pass along a few hints where the publicly available info came from? One of those Internet services that advertises on late night TV? Something you have access to because of your former gov't employment? Something like the old Dunn and Bradstreet reports?

Just curious as to the source of my amazement. Thanks.

Public records have always been accessible. However, in the past, it required a lot of leg work. Now, a Google search will reveal websites that provide this service online for a fee. Anybody can access public information on anyone. Namely; judgments, liens, bankruptcies, divorces, and criminal records.

This isn't a big secret. Nothing one couldn't get by walking in a courthouse. Now just pay a website to deliver it to your computer

 

[BLS53]

That's precisely what makes it so juicy. All that dough, the house in the Hamptons, all those liens and judgements, the new book, the fame and fortune...

It could be on the front cover on the tabloids at the grocery store checkout sometime soon. If Kim Kardashian hasn't done something more outrageous. Who knows?

This guy doesn't have the celebrity quotient to generate must appeal. There would be a small demographic that would buy the book. Which ironically, is probably the issue with all his books, and a big reason why he can't measure up financially to his lifestyle of choice.

 

[Milton]

I never buy a Porsche, in my neighborhood, it usually a geezer with white hair driving a Porsche. I think they are hoping to impress somebody.

No doubt that's true in some cases. But perhaps a few such elderly Porsche owners don't care about other people's opinions and simply want to enjoy driving a fun car.

Once you've already achieved FI, I see nothing wrong using surplus $ - of course, always pay cash for 'toys' - on personal indulgences (chattels or experiences). You can't take it with you.

 

[Lucantes]

Once you've already achieved FI, I see nothing wrong using surplus $ - of course, always pay cash for 'toys' - on personal indulgences (chattels or experiences). You can't take it with you.

+1

 

[Milton]

Maybe we ER's should give some classes based on real-world experience, although this may be too much w*rk and hassle. "What do you mean I must save and invest 20% or more of my income? Not possible! Can't you just give me some hot tips to beat the market and retire in 15 months..."

Exactly. I have better ways to spend my (hard-won) free time than trying to educate people who typically don't want to learn. In most cases I agree with Larry Winget's perspective: "you're broke because you want to be".