The "In case of Death" plan

[Souschef]

When we had our POA' and estate plan done, we were given a 3 ring binder with all the data.
In the front of it are a number of sheets of paper. They contain the names and account numbers of all our holdings, along with contact information. Also a list of our assets and who is TOD on them. I also have a list of all of our passwords for all sites.

 

[Oz investor]

my current plan is to leave a DNA sample and let the litigation begin between those related

if there are any kind words spoken on my behalf at the Pearly Gates , they may very well be spoken by a lawyer .

( they have been litigating ever since i have been born , why should i reform a family pastime )

 

[RunningBum]

I don't mind writing down passwords in a secure place, but keeping them current is another thing. It's advised to change passwords periodically, and some sites require it every 6 months or so. I guess fewer sites seem to be enforcing that these days.

It would also change my lock box from being something that would be a pain if it were swiped in a burglary to being extremely critical as someone could access all of my accounts and drain all of my money. Because of that I've yet to write PWs down, so I guess I can't say I don't mind it because I don't do it.

 

[PatrickA5]

BFB Big Fat Binder 2-1/2" D-Ring with 30 dividers and index sheet. In front are the wills. Then an instruction sheet (3 pages), explaining various items, what to do, account access, spreadsheet references, etc.

Each divided section has a statement from the account or investment. That should make it easier to transition.

Each kid knows, "There is THE binder. Start there."

I have the same thing. Bought the Get It Together (NOLO) planner. It's a set of 30 "chapters" of word files, along with a book and 3 ring binder. It took several months to complete, but in the end it is VERY comprehensive. It has everything one would need to know all the way down to how to contact my barber. I have it in the home safe, and the kids know about it and where to find it. I update it annually - which takes a few hours.

 

[Lsbcal]

I don't mind writing down passwords in a secure place, but keeping them current is another thing. It's advised to change passwords periodically, and some sites require it every 6 months or so. I guess fewer sites seem to be enforcing that these days.

It would also change my lock box from being something that would be a pain if it were swiped in a burglary to being extremely critical as someone could access all of my accounts and drain all of my money. Because of that I've yet to write PWs down, so I guess I can't say I don't mind it because I don't do it.

I save my passwords on LastPass. Once a year I export this to a file and store on a memory stick. Also see no need to change passwords if they are strong ones and never reused.

 

[skipro33]

Everything financial is on Quicken. It's a one-button update for every account and one-button for each account to reconcile. I keep copies of the working file on my laptop and a memory stick. I keep a list of passwords to every logon I've got that is active; from banking (which is already on Quicken) to this forum and my e-mail accounts.

I've penned a letter that gets reviewed and updated twice a year. It stipulates anything personal I wish to will to individuals. It includes a lot of stuff, like, how much some items may be worth that she'll get rid of once I die. Our RV for example. My motorcycles. Firearms. It also recommends that she hangs onto stuff, like all my tools, that anyone coming over to help her with anything would have tools present to facilitate that.

From Quicken, she can deduce certain tasks she'll need to take care of; ordering propane for example.

The letter will also include some diagrams, such as the drip and sprinkler systems and controls.

 

[2177V]

Before my Mom passed away, she changed the title to her house as a "Enhanced Life Estate Deed" sometimes called the "Lady Bird" Deed. This allows property transfer without Probate. All the family had to do is show the county recording office the Enhanced Life Estate Deed which identify the beneficiary, the death certificate, the ID of the beneficiary and sign a sworn statement under the penalty of perjury. The county then transferred title of her house after paying a small recording fee. No probate was involved. This is because a beneficiary was identified in the deed.

My mom also placed her IRA, bank account assets as POD (Payable on Death) accounts which most financial institutions can set up for free which also identify a specific beneficiary. All the family had to do is show the financial institution the death certificate, the ID of the beneficiary and sign a sworn statement and then they transfer the assets that same day. No probate was involved. This is because a beneficiary was identified.

We did talk to an estate attorney on whether our Mom's estate has to go thru probate and he state "no" because our mom set up what he called a "Poor Person's Living Trust". The Lady Bird Deed, POD accounts are EXEMPT from probate in the State of California because there is a specific beneficiary. The remaining assets that did not have a specific beneficiary did not exceed the "threshold".

Every state have issued "Probate" regulations and people should read these regulations to avoid probate. There is a "threshold amount to avoid probate" . For California, that amount is $150,000. Our mom's house and POD accounts are EXEMPT from this $150,000 which means we did not have to go thru probate because her remaining material leftover assets without a named beneficiary was valued to be less than $150,000.

Estate Planning should involve reading your state's "probate regulations" or consulting an estate attorney if you want to avoid probate which can be costly and time consuming. The fact that our Mom named a specific beneficary in her deed and a specific beneficiary in her financial asset accounts makes it difficult for a relative to dispute our Mom's intent.

A binder may not be a legal document in your state. Any relative can challenge anything unless you set up your estate by consulting an estate attorney.

 

[gwraigty]

A binder may not be a legal document in your state. Any relative can challenge anything unless you set up your estate by consulting an estate attorney.

Some excellent advice in your post, which many of us might have in place already. I don't think anyone is suggesting that their binders are legal documents. Many of the posts are regarding a system to help a surviving spouse navigate the financial waters of such mundane tasks as paying bills and investing the surplus.

I have a document on my computer backed up to 2 flash drives. I also have a document for our kids, should something happen to both of us simultaneously, although hopefully unlikely. It's backed up and I have a hard copy in my desk. They know where it's at, if needed. Their document explains how to claim as named beneficiaries of our accounts. I regularly review these documents and update as needed.

 

[a60dan]

I made a printed letter (with "The Oh Sh*t! Letter" on the envelope) that gives the codes for all the online accounts and explains how to get at the money. To decode the passwords you need a separate envelope that DW, DS, and DD all have a copy of. I check in from time to time that they know where their code envelope is. Why yes, I was a huge nerd at school, why do you ask?

I keep all accounts/passwords in LastPass. Many sites require password changes, and the passwords are more secure. No matter what device I'm using or where I am, I can access the info.

My wife and trusted daughter (in case the plane goes down) have the LastPass password. They'll still need my cell phone to authenticate, and that has a passcode that can be stored in a LastPass secure note.

All finances are in mint.com, making it easy to see past activity.

There are tradeoffs with keeping personal info in the cloud. The convenience of access, changing the passwords regularly and the list up to date are worth the small risk of LastPass being compromised. \

My risk of not keeping the paper list current and losing paper far exceeds that of LastPass being compromised

 

[Earlygirl]

DW and I were talking about what we'd do if one of us died. Financially, we have set our pensions to be 100% survivorships. We plan on leaving the higher social security to age 70 (probably leave both SS to age 70), and Roth converting to the top of the 12% bracket as fast as possible so the survivor doesn't get dinged by heavy taxation.

A realtor would handle the sale of the house if one dies. One thing we don't have a handle on-----What is the most efficient way to sell belongings that would no longer be needed in the future survivor's life? Are there estate sellers that guarantee to work in the best interest of the client. I can see how this process could be severely abused to the benefit of the Estate selling company.

We've successfully planned and executed retirement. Now we want to create an efficient death plan if one of us bites the bullet early.

Well, I don't have a plan, but some friends of ours that live in Iowa bought a retirement place nearby, took what they wanted from the old house and then had a tag sale company come in and sell what was left. The tag sale company takes 40%, so it is in their best interest to maximize the profit. The company also does all the advertising, etc. After that the house was listed and sold. It seems like this would work just as well after death. You would want to specify any items that you want to go to someone else prior to the sale.

 

[RunningBum]

I have the same thing. Bought the Get It Together (NOLO) planner. It's a set of 30 "chapters" of word files, along with a book and 3 ring binder. It took several months to complete, but in the end it is VERY comprehensive. It has everything one would need to know all the way down to how to contact my barber. I have it in the home safe, and the kids know about it and where to find it. I update it annually - which takes a few hours.

Wondering if it's worthwhile to get that planner. I've already got a document in my lockbox with all the details I can think of on investment/bank accounts, insurance, credit cards, utilities, etc., how to access my computer and documents (incl tax returns). Maybe I'm missing something, but I really don't care to contact my barber, or anyone else like that. A note on my Facebook account will get word out to most people I know. What could I be missing?

 

[2177V]

I keep all accounts/passwords in LastPass. Many sites require password changes, and the passwords are more secure. No matter what device I'm using or where I am, I can access the info.

My wife and trusted daughter (in case the plane goes down) have the LastPass password. They'll still need my cell phone to authenticate, and that has a passcode that can be stored in a LastPass secure note.

All finances are in mint.com, making it easy to see past activity.

There are tradeoffs with keeping personal info in the cloud. The convenience of access, changing the passwords regularly and the list up to date are worth the small risk of LastPass being compromised. \

My risk of not keeping the paper list current and losing paper far exceeds that of LastPass being compromised

Suggestion: If your daughter can be trusted, converting the accounts into joint account with your daughter may be easier. The other alternative is setting up the account as a POD (Payable on Death). POD accounts allow you to have 100% control of the account...until death. In that case the account is then transferred to your daughter without probate. Talk to your financial institutions for your options.

Both joint account and POD account avoids probate in the State of California. I would use caution in giving your daughter passwords..especially if the amount in these accounts exceed the threshold probate amount allowed in your state. Your daughter may have your passwords but she may unknowingly violate probate laws in your state if she access the funds without going through probate. Remember your daughter's name is not associated with these accounts unless you make them joint accounts or POD accounts. Another relative can challenge her assumed right...and then it gets ugly.

Another suggestion: I do not recommend electing the electronic statement options from financial institutions. This is because paper monthly or quarterly statements continue to come in the mail even after death. This gives your daughter a clue that you have assets....assuming your daughter checks your mail. Electronic statement is only visible to the living owner. Once your daughter is aware of all of these accounts, she then have the problem how to access the account legally if her name is not a beneficiary to the account. This may require probate.

Generally, if there is a surviving spouse, then the transfer of assets is made easy with joint ownership. However, if some accounts are sole ownership, then even the surviving spouse has a problem trying to access that account without probate or a POD account. All of your accounts should have a beneficiary. It really gets complicated when there are no surviving spouse and then the surviving children, uncles, aunts, mistress, etc can fight over money because there is no estate planning. This is not the way to leave your legacy.

 

[gwraigty]

vchan2177 you appear to be inferring a lot from a60dan's post. People may use a variety of means to keep their spouses/heirs informed of their assets, so that nothing gets missed. That's all that I'm inferring from his post.

BTW, if the daughter were to be sued, her legal share of the jointly-titled assets would be at risk, even if she didn't actually contribute one penny to the accounts. For that reason, I don't recommend titling a financial account with significant assets with a non-spouse, but to each their own.

Even without a will or POD (which I highly recommend), the daughter would probably be first in line to inherit after the deaths of both parents under state law. More distant relatives would have no claim on her late parent's assets.

The daughter can be made aware of the location of assets without the need for getting paper statements in the mail. A simple list of accounts with names of the financial institution, or a printed copy of an electronic statement for each account would suffice to inform the daughter of their existence. Balances and account numbers could be removed for privacy, of course.

 

[Crabby Mike]

My wife and trusted daughter (in case the plane goes down) have the LastPass password. They'll still need my cell phone to authenticate, and that has a passcode that can be stored in a LastPass secure note.

Sad to say, in light of recent crashes, but "if the plane goes down" they're not likely to have your cell phone to authenticate anything. Just sayin' ...

 

[mexexpat]

When my FIL died some of the smaller insurance policies paid out before we had the death certificate in hand....they asked if there was a newspaper obituary and when/where printed. They paid out within days based on that and the children's claims/paperwork.

Surprised us, but true. FWIW, I would recommend having an obit with pertinent info.

 

[2177V]

vchan2177 you appear to be inferring a lot from a60dan's post. People may use a variety of means to keep their spouses/heirs informed of their assets, so that nothing gets missed. That's all that I'm inferring from his post.

BTW, if the daughter were to be sued, her legal share of the jointly-titled assets would be at risk, even if she didn't actually contribute one penny to the accounts. For that reason, I don't recommend titling a financial account with significant assets with a non-spouse, but to each their own.

Even without a will or POD (which I highly recommend), the daughter would probably be first in line to inherit after the deaths of both parents under state law. More distant relatives would have no claim on her late parent's assets.

The daughter can be made aware of the location of assets without the need for getting paper statements in the mail. A simple list of accounts with names of the financial institution, or a printed copy of an electronic statement for each account would suffice to inform the daughter of their existence. Balances and account numbers could be removed for privacy, of course.

The whole point that I was trying to make is simply a suggestion how to AVOID probate.

Your statement of "the daughter would probably be first in line" is likely a true statement. However, the daughter may have to go to probate court before the money is disbursed. This may take some time. For example, the daughter may have to make a public announcement of the probate court date in the newspaper for anybody to attend the court date to make a claim on the estate. People should avoid this process whenever possible.

Making a list is OK for informational purposes. However the list is just that....for informational purposes. This list does not authorize disbursement of money without a joint account, POD account and/or probate order. This is why they have living trust seminars, estate attorneys and/or probate regulations online for the public to read. As a public service, some counties even offer free attorney services if you have a general question on estate planning.

There are ways to avoid probate...and making an informational list does not do that.

My Mom consulted an estate attorney before she passed away. She set up one joint account with one of her sons to pay for her funeral expenses immediately. The rest were POD accounts and Enhanced Life Estate Deed for the house because disbursement for the POD accounts and Enhanced Life Estate takes a little more time to transfer the assets. When the family opened her bank safe deposit box, her gold coins and jewelry all had name tags on who the assets belong to. Since the Safe Deposit assets was less than the threshold amount for probate in the state of California, probate was not needed for this division of assets. Each state may have different threshold amounts.

 

[jebmke]

Sad to say, in light of recent crashes, but "if the plane goes down" they're not likely to have your cell phone to authenticate anything. Just sayin' ...

Unless they are named on the account they have no legal right to be going in there anyway.

 

[2177V]

When my FIL died some of the smaller insurance policies paid out before we had the death certificate in hand....they asked if there was a newspaper obituary and when/where printed. They paid out within days based on that and the children's claims/paperwork.

Surprised us, but true. FWIW, I would recommend having an obit with pertinent info.

The obituary is a public announcement that your FIL has passed away. A death certificate is not a public announcement. The children claims probably involve a certification statement under the penalty of perjury that your FIL has passed away.

When my family consulted an estate attorney about whether my Mom's estate needed to go through probate, the attorney also wanted to make sure the obituary is published. There are people who wants to keep the passing a secret (to continue to collect the social security payments, disbursing money without going probate, etc)

 

[2177V]

Unless they are named on the account they have no legal right to be going in there anyway.

That is exactly my point about naming a beneficiary to all your accounts as a POD account.....or making the accounts a joint account.

Just because you give someone your passcode....that someone has no legal right to transfer funds to their own personal account. This system is based on protecting the depositor.

The bank has to make the fund transfer from a POD account. They can only do it with a death certificate, an ID of the beneficiary and beneficiary has to sign a certified statement under the penalty of perjury.

 

[gwraigty]

The whole point that I was trying to make is simply a suggestion how to AVOID probate.

Your statement of "the daughter would probably be first in line" is likely a true statement. However, the daughter may have to go to probate court before the money is disbursed. This may take some time. For example, the daughter may have to make a public announcement of the probate court date in the newspaper for anybody to attend the court date to make a claim on the estate. People should avoid this process whenever possible.

Making a list is OK for informational purposes. However the list is just that....for informational purposes. This list does not authorize disbursement of money without a joint account, POD account and/or probate order. This is why they have living trust seminars, estate attorneys and/or probate regulations online for the public to read. As a public service, some counties even offer free attorney services if you have a general question on estate planning.

There are ways to avoid probate...and making an informational list does not do that.

You're preaching to the choir as far as I, personally, am concerned. I'm just seeing various ways people have chosen to point their survivors in the right starting direction immediately after their deaths, including spouses who may not even know how to locate or pay the light bill.

No, obviously an informational list doesn't authorize disbursement of accounts. It does give a surviving spouse or child knowledge that such accounts exist and where. The survivor can then contact those financial institutions to have joint accounts properly titled in their name only, or obtain the claim forms to have the funds disbursed to named POD beneficiaries, whichever is applicable. My document for my husband naturally has different instructions that my document for our kids.

 

[gwraigty]

My apologies if I seem touchy. I know topics go off on tangents all the time.

Here there's a mix of taking steps of how to help survivors in the beginning with the most basic of household financial tasks so they don't find themselves in the dark and foreclosed upon, with a lecture on how to avoid probate and avoid illegally accessing funds. IMO, the two are separate issues. I was originally contributing to the former, as many were.

 

[2177V]

The forum is "In Case of Death Plan" . In 2006, I volunteered to serve in Afghanistan as a Civilian Engineer because I was ex-military. I produced an informational binder for my wife in the event I came home in a box. When my Mom passed away, I then got to know about probate. i decided to share this information in this forum. While both issues are separate....both issues are also relevant to "In case of Death" subject and to any survivors.

Later, I decided to change my informational binder into a Excel Spreadsheet identifying all of the family monthly budget. This has 5 categories: 1. House Expenses (property taxes, utilities) 2. Insurance Expenses (life insurance, house insurance, auto insurance) 3. Automotive Expenses (DMV registration, gas) 4. Discretionary (Credit cards, cell phone) 5. Miscellaneous (groceries, medication, entertainment).

Unfortunately my wife does not even want to look at the family budget because she know that I take care of the budget. She just wants me to live long. I had to let my daughter know about the family budget as a backup. From my excel spreadsheet of the family budget, my survivors can then use this information to continue paying the bills without me. The critical components are the insurances policies which are locked inside the family safe. I also look at my family budget to manage my expenses while I am alive.

Everyone has a different approach on how to take care of your survivors. The original commenter asked about how to sell or dispose of miscellaneous stuff that the survivors do not need. Generally the survivors would hold an estate sale or a garage sale. It is difficult to give this responsibility to a stranger and the survivors may need some time to grieve. I would suggest thinking about a friend or a distant relative to fill this need.

 

[RetireAge50]

The "In case of Death" plan

My wife knows how to take care of all the finances as well as I do. Not too much stuff around here so I’ll just toss out the wife’s clothes. She will get rid of my motorcycles. I like the idea of hanging out at the beach in Hawaii. Might have to implement that right away.

 

[GreatLaker]

I live alone and no family within 500 miles.

I created two documents. First is an Emergency Contact Info file with family and medical contact numbers. Printed copies are on my fridge and my desk corkboard. Second is a Personal and Financial info file that is password protected. It has account numbers, passwords, property roll numbers etc. Both those files are on my PC in a directory named !IMPORTANT INFORMATION. The ! at the start ensures it is at the top of the directory list.

A copy of my will and POA are in the top drawer of my desk, plus a key to my lockbox. Original of my will and POA are in a lockbox where my executor and POAs know where to find it.

Now comes the creative part. The Emergency file has a line that states a hint for unlocking the personal and financial info file. That hint is something the family members that are executors and POA would easily decipher, but unlikely anyone else would. And the hint does not print, so its not on the copies on my fridge and desk.

There are still a few items I want to add to my emergency file, like final wishes and who to notify when I pass on.

But I think I have things fairly well covered compared to most people, so emergency personnel can assist me and family members will be able to deal with my accounts and other important details without too much scrambling.

 

[GreatLaker]

A note on my Facebook account will get word out to most people I know. What could I be missing?

Something many people probably don't know is that when someone passes away their FB account may get memorialized, which means no one can log in to it any more. Consider adding a Legacy Contact to your FB profile.

What will happen to my Facebook account if I pass away?

What is a legacy contact and what can they do?